mboland

Here is the footage off the maiden flight and premature death of my VQ P-61 Black Widow.

I think the video says it all.

http://www.rcuvideos.com/item/PM9B8PHX2V7QTWT5

reincarnate

Wow. Thats all I can say. You've got my sympathies and a commendation for posting your grief. That poor bird couldn't have been any more vertical when she hit.

Looked like a fantastic flyer though.

Krener

Sorry for your loss mate[]
She sure did sound nice with those twin 4's purring along.

So it was battery failure that caused this??

phornight

Sorry for you loss

mboland

Thanks for the sympathies, I still cry into my beer now and again.

The P-61 handled like a sports trainer. As you could see loops and rolls straight off after the initial trimming, it felt that comfortable.
It was heavy, at 12kg, but with twin Saito 125's it had power to spare. I am glad we got the sound on video, best sounding bird ever.

One of the battery packs melted down during the overnight charge, 6 cell 4200mAh NiMh. The 2 packs were velcroed together to fit edge on into the fuse, and finally zip tied to the battery tray. The zip ties, being plastic, were melted by the frying battery pack and so both packs were free to move.
The stall turn was the clincher as the one good pack, with the other stuck to it for added weight, fell back along the fuse and pulled the deans connector out.
NO POWER from that moment on, just as she comes to a halt in the stall turn.

When I throttled up and nothing happened I thought it was a bit strange that 2 motors would go out together, but didn't panic, just waited to pick up a little speed as I felt quite confident in gliding it back to the strip without a problem.
It was when I pulled elevator and nothing happened that I realised I was in trouble, a quick twiddle of all the sticks and I had a couple of hundred feet to just stand there and ponder its demise.

Adui

Your a better man than I.

Had I been in your shoes, the moment I realized she was going in and i couldnt save her I would have sat down and cried..

That was a beautiful bird, and I hope you build another!

mboland

I hope I can afford another.
That was basically $4.5k written off.

The only undamaged part was the 2 main retracts, EVERYTHING else is damaged or destroyed.

You know, gravity really sucks []
But if we take them off the ground we takes our chances

And on the following Sunday I wrote off my VMar Phantom when it lost radio, probably just to take my mind off the Widow.

Gary L.

How do you get the video to play? I know there's something I'm not doing right.

mboland

It's an AVI file, DivX compatible, if your on windoze just tell Windoze media player to open it.
Will play on all DivX compatible DVD players.
Or download VLC, a free download, which plays just about anything.

Live Wire

With the crash you had you could not no what happend unless you were on board . There was nothing left to show what happend that could not have happened after the crash.This is something that could have been prevented by a short flight and a once over of the aircraft and another go at it after a flight check out do not ring out a maiden flight[:@][:@][:@]

Flying freak

wow thats horrible

But I gotta ask the stupid question,

If you had a battery melt down on the charger would you not have seen that when checking the voltage of the battery before flight?

Did both packs read normal?

Steven

Villa

Hi mboland
Terrible loss. I have lost two planes that went vertically down from a high elevation. Looked just like yours except I still had throttle and aileron control. In my case I concluded that the elevator nylon clevises had failed. They were open, which of course could have happened in the crash. Since that time I NEVER use plastic clevises in the critical locations. I use heavy duty lockable clevises only.

halfinchwrench

My first crash was like this only I still don't know what really was the cause to this day. The OS MAX 46. AX that hit the ground first still flies to this day even though the aircraft was in sticks It was the 5th flight of the day and was the infamous "one last flight" syndrome. Only total loss bird under my belt in 3 years of glow. More to come I am sure.

Build on!

Brian

mboland

The final CSI (Crash Site Investigation) report is that one of the 4200mAh NiMh battery packs melted down during the overnight charge.
This was determined due to the scattered charred cells from one pack being cold at the crash site.

Both battery packs were velcro'ed together to mount in the fuse edge on (mistake 1)

Both battery packs were zip tied to the battery tray (mistake 2)
and due to the heat from the melted battery the ties were no longer tied.

Unlike all my other aircraft, I did not have volt spies on the batteries, instead relying on the dual system and the Weatronics (mistake 3)

As I had really been taking my time getting every thing right (wrong) I had been running the electric's extensively and had performed 4 days of ground trials getting the motors setup to my satisfaction. I had become too complacent with the operation of the electronics, and as we had the Heavy Model Inspector on site for the maiden flight I did not plug in the laptop or a volt meter to check the voltages (mistake 4).

When I pulled into the stall turn the battery packs (velcro'ed together) slid backwards in the fuse and pulled the deans connector apart.
The result is what you see in the video.

Everyone has 20/20 vision in hindsight I guess [&o]

A few pics of the remains
The battery packs
Whats left of the engines
The only unbroken piece of the airframe

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

Very sorry to see your loss...just curious, can you mention what type of charger and the battery source? PM me if you'd like to keep the info private. I'm trying to troubleshoot a similar issue.

I've recently had two NiMH packs explode during charging...the first one actually blew a hole in the side of a fiberglass fuse, the second time the pack was on the bench. I was told by a couple of people that used the same type ("fast charge" - i.e. 1C - NiMHs) in RC cars that these cells blow up frequently. I have a couple of theories but for now have taken them out of my planes.

See pics below of my own NiMH meltdown...

Barry

Live Wire

mboland
You for got # 5 Posting something this bad on any forum. People are the type that look for loopholes in a post. Pic's are O.K. don't try to explain what happened[:@] Been there done that.

You know it seems that after a while we are part of the Aircraft with the time and money we get involved. Sorry for the loss great looking plane.

timothy thompson

My Feedback: (1)

sorry it happened but you should have not flown on half your rx power. or keep maidens gentle. I use velcro ties and never had a problem. I also use big batts but never quick charge them i use the wall units and charge for 2 days and check voltage before flight. quick chargers are a didster waitign to happen (my opinion )

camdyson

Yeah, dummy! Thanks for sharing. I'm really sus' of NiMH's - had a few weird experiences with them not peaking on supposed NiMH-specific chargers and getting VERY hot. Never found good ol' NiCads so tricky.

It's funny though - you ever wonder whether having so much redundancy built in makes us MORE complacent? I bet if we just had a pack of NiCads and a switch, we'd be more careful.

Commiserations,

Cam

p.s. It's 6/6 hindsight in Australia - metric you know

mjfrederick

I lost my Genesis recently because I trusted the velcro straps... nothing is 100%. And I imagine if he had these batteries set up in parallel, the battery voltage would have been fine on checking anyway unless he unplugged them and then checked individually. Sorry for your loss... I feel your pain... Altogether the replacement cost for a new Genesis set up the way mine was would be in excess of $2500... Just not worth it for a plane I didn't really like to begin with...

kid chuckles

Real nice for guys to get on here and say shoulda done this and never fly without doing this and this is my opinion[sm=punching.gif]
I saw nowhere did this man ask for any opinion on anything, he listed what he thought was done wrong more than I would do. But then you get the idiots like above poster that knows so much about what someone else should have done. Makes you want to kick them in the knee or something.

Man that was a sweet sounding plane and very beautiful. It sounded as real as i have heard one sound. Hate it for you, that is why i don't put my many crashes on here. There has to be some jerks that think they could have done better and maybe so. But they did not build it nor probabay have anything like it it was yours and stuff happens. I have maidened planes before and flat out forgot to check CG. We all make mistakes, some like pointing out others mistakes makes them feel better or something. Great video also not many i have seen go in that hard straight as an arrow down. And one of the worst torn up that i have seen also. Hope your motors can be repaired and maybe some of the electronics. Build her back if you can if not then can tell you will build another beautiful plane whatever it is. Good luck and try to put it behind you.

newguy05

My Feedback: (2)

For those of you that disrespected this man because he didnt do something the way you think it should be done need to go put the time, and effort into a plane like this take it out and crash it and post your experience on here for us to bash on you about. This is crash and rebuild forum not crash and get bashed. Everyone makes mistakes and we learn from those mistakes. We dont need other people to make us feel worse after a crash by telling us what we should have did. He came here to show us a crash of a beautiful blackwidow, not to be criticized b/c you think it should be done another way.

That was a great plane, sounded great and flew great from the vid. Dont let the crash or these people get you discouraged. All planes have an expiration date. Only thing we can do now is put this behind us and go build more planes!
Jonathan.

timothy thompson

My Feedback: (1)

look if hes flying a p-61 he should know the batts are put in batt boxes. Another arf generation casulty. All my batts are in built in boxes and they dont move.


wingspan b-17 1/9th
royal1/5 corsair

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mboland

Thanks for the nice comments kidchuckles n newguy, but these mouth almighties are a dime a dozen, exist in every club and are not worth the energy to worry about.

There are hanger experts everywhere.

'She who must be obeyed' has even asked if I would consider building another

dbarrym

My Feedback: (47)

Gee Timmy - that's so good - for you.

How's that BVM MIG-15 doing?

Barry

old git

Thanks for the video, my dark side wants to see a crash (I don't wish for them to occur but hate to miss them)

My light side on the other hand thanks you for the masterly way you have described the events that led up to the loss of a superb model, comiserations.

My first model was built about 65 years ago, they all ended in grief. I sometimes wonder if R/C gives a false feeling of security. I've learned a lot from your posts but my losses have been due to my natural incompetence. I shall probably think a lot more before I release my next model to the "wild blue yonder".

When I found out about silk covering it enabled me to go home with the model already bagged.

People are very different but happy marriages are very similar.



old git - - - - aka John L.