dz06

Today was the last crash (number 3 of 3) for my cursed four star. It is incredible how one minute every thing is ok and the next it is heading for the ground.

First crash I let the plane get too far away and lost it trying to bring it back.

Second crash I was coming in for a landing and lost it.

Final crash plane was straight and level over runway at low altitude when plane started drifting toward pit side of runway.
I tried to correct with ailerons and ended up dropping one wing and cartwheeling. Actually it happens so fast when it goes bad that I'm not really sure, but that seems like what must have happened.

Best I can figure is that unlike my kadet senior trainer using the ailerons alone to turn does'nt work well at all. I think what happens is when I try to turn away from something the plane banks, but does'nt turn. I panic and bank more and fly into the ground from a low altitude.

To accomplish a turn on the four star with ailerons alone requires substantial up elevator not just to maintain altitude, but to actually turn.

I'll fly the four star 2 or 3 times with no problems (clean landings and take offs). Then next flight fly right into the ground. It happens so fast that a buddy box would not help. I'm pretty sure it's me and not any kind of glitch.

Yes. I practice on G2 realflight simulator. With the sim landings are a breeze, full throttle flight no problem, dead stick landings easy and generally no issues. It maybe that the G2 sim is trimmed perfectly and my Four Star is not or maybe with the sim there is no pressure or panic. The CG of the four star was exactly 3 5/8" from leading edge of wing. Taking hands off radio controls would result in continued flight in same direction and attitude.

I guess I'm spooked with the four star now and it looks like too much trouble to repair again. I'll fly the kadet to get back my confidence and then try some other low wing when I do get back my confidence.

egor

Hey:

NOW STRAIGHTEN UP OVER THERE WE'LL NOT HAVE THIS GIVEN UP.

Get those pieces and that bottle of glue and put that sucker back together. What you need to do is the same thing that I and many others have had to do. Get the trainer out, Does the kadet senior have ailerons can't remember, don't think so. anyway get a trainer with ailerons, get up in the air and teach your self to fly slow flat turns using the rudder to turn and the ailerons to keep that wing level. start out just flying boxes,you know draw a square or rectangle box in the sky over the field start out at a moderate speed and make your turns with the rudder and keep that wing level.. fly the pattern be it left or right and find a time when things aren't busy and reverse directions get it down both directions then start cutting the throttle back a little at a time watch the reaction of the plane fly the wing don't just point it learn to control that stall. anytime I land I use strictly rudder for turns and the opposite aileron to keep that wing level when you've got that mastered get a friend or instructor show you how to side slip the plane for cross wind landings..


never give up and never ever be afraid to ask for help. I'm kind of an old fart that had to put this hobby off for a lot of years while raising my kid's now my son flies with me, and something I have learned is that if your willing to learn there are plenty of people out there willing to help. I'm not the greatest pilot but I ain't given up after 3 years it's to damn much fun.

egor

dz06

Egor, Thanks for the support and the suggestions. I am not quitting RC, but I do need a break from the four star.

I ordered today a four star kit. The cursed one is an ARF. I'll try to use the kit four star as a template to repair the cursed one and later build out the kit.

Your suggestion to practice rudder usage seems like an excellent idea. I'll try it with the kadet senior. The kadet is a large plane with 80" flat bottom high wing. I fly it with an OS 50SX which is actually on the high side of recommended engines.

I'm sure the problems with the four star are caused by pilot error, but really need a break to recoup and gain back my confidence. Fly well for about 5 flights then crash. First crash was stupid, second was just as dumb. The third was just unbelievable. Everything was going fine then major brain fart and the plane hits the runway.

I'm still trying to sort out why I seem to have such an erratic performance flying the four star. I think maybe it's just that when a control error is made the results happen so much quicker. With the kadet there is time to recover.

Unstable

this is probably the cause of the crash.

a flat bottomed trainer type plane will go through the turn on aileron only, it will loose a bit of altitude but not much,

a semi (or full.. dont remember) symetrical airfoiled acrobat like the 4 * if you bank it, you need to add elevator to pull it through the turn.

also the 4* is more likely to tip stall on you in a slow turn. keep that speed up a bit when coming in to land.

also test out the stall characteristics of it when its high up. you need to figure out how it behaves before a stall and what it does in a stall (does it dip forward, off to the side, "mush" straight down)

the 4* will float in almost like a trainer... almost. you still have to keep it flying till the wheels touch.

fix it up. rebalance it (important) then fly it. test it out high to see what it does, after a crash it probably weighs more due to glue and such, so see how it reacts. and dont give up. if you let one airplane "win" the others will think you are weak and stop respecting you

dz06

Thanks Unstable.

Yet another set of good suggestions. I had not considered the part about other planes losing respect.

SaturnV

The guy at our LHS swears by - after a crash you need to have the receiver checked. Could it really be cursed?

vanman

My Feedback: (2)

I have a cursed 4 star as well it seems. I have not been flying all that long but I have flown alot of different things and have always managed to get them back on the ground.

After flying my sons somethin extra and loving it I decided I better find something that belongs to me and fly it. Lo and behold along comes the cursed 4 star.

I have not crashed anything but my Zagi and yes each and everytime I put that in is my fault.

The first day with my 4 star, yep failed to check out its stall characteristics and stalled in on the final approach of the final flight of the day....... cart wheel

Fixed that and then dumb thumbed it in.......

Fixed that and stalled it on final.....cart wheel

Fixed that and I suppose that I failed to verify the positive connection of both aileron quick connects and yep you guessed it....final flight of the day.........coming in to line up for landing and it simply rolled over and went in....

It is fixed again, however, I am thinking maybe someone else should own this thing cause it sure doesn't like me

Anyway the moral of this story is.....well I'm not sure what the moral of the story is........ so safe flying!

dz06

Vanman, say it ain't so, one cursed plane is enough.

Check this progression.

1st Sunday 3 flights OK.
2nd Sunday 2 flights OK, crash on the 3rd flight.
3rd Sunday 1 flight OK, crash on the 2nd flight.
4th Sunday 0 flights OK, crash on the 1st flight.

I will repair the cursed one once again, but it will take a few weeks. Each time I take it out I'm sure that it will be OK. You probably know the drill. Mentally prepare for take off and keep it simple in the air. Just fly the pattern and land safely. Plan is to just get comfortable with the plane.


Either I'm done crashing or I'll crash the cursed one while loading it into the truck.

vanman

My Feedback: (2)

Yep that story sounds familiar.... Now you want to hear another story about a 4 star?

Out at the field yesterday, one guy flying his 4* 40 another guy flying his Dave Patrick......

Can you see this coming? Yep mid-air the 4* flew right into the other guys prop, and that big ol prop chewed up the 4 star and spit it out the other side, left the landing gear permanently fixed in the wing of the other plane. The 4* pcs were so small they simply floated away.....SERIOUSLY only a couple large chunks of it fell to the ground, the rest floated away.

Miraculously and a great piece of flying involved the other guy got his Dave Patrick on the ground in one...well sort of one piece. It will live to see another day. The demons of the 4*? they have been released to take haven somewhere else cause that baby aint going fly again.

Wish I had my camera it was kinda cool.....course neither plane was mine so that does tend to make it a little cooler

Anyhow, mine is ready to fly again and I suppose I will, but if it hits the ground again......well I guess I will try to fix it and fly it another day....

Safe flying

Wh00ps

Yeah... those durn four-stars...

This is what happens when John comes in on a low knife-edge pass, realizes it's headed for the ground, and tries to roll it level quick. I could not believe, after the gyrations this thing went through after it hit the ground, that the tail was all that broke. *boggle*

Wh00ps

THIS is what happens when he runs it out of gas in a hover about 10 feet above the cornfield:

Wh00ps

And I don't have a pic of the final demise of John's 4*, but mine (60 size) went in out of a very low, very high speed pass, when I reached for the elev-flap mix switch, and just ever-so-slightly caught the stick and bumped it down. DOH!

AdmiralHam

I just bought my second plane so I have been doing lots of research and asking questions. The plane I hear about the most is the Sig 4 *. But now, as I really think about my conversations and the article I have read, I realize they all go something like this:

"You are looking for a second plane? Well, I suggest you get the Sig 4 *. I had one and loved it until it crashed. One of these days I'm getting a new one."

I'm serious; everyone at my field has owned and crashed a Sig 4 *. Every review I have read mentions either a crash or states, "while building my second Sig 4 *."

After considering all of this, I am left with two possible reasons that explain these findings:

1) The Sig 4 * isn't as good as everyone says it is. It's their first plane after their trainer, so it can do no wrong. Kind of like the great memories I have of my first car (total POS) or my first girl friend (also a total POS ). Or . . .

2) It is everyones first plane after the trainer and perhaps they weren't ready to move to a new plane yet.

What do you guys think?

BTW, I am not calling the Sig 4 * a POS (I ordered one yesterday) and I'm not saying anything negative about your flying skills (I fly so bad it scares me!) . . I just find it interesting that everyone I have talked to has flown and crashed a Sig 4 *, but they all love it as if it were their first born.

3 Channel Brain

I have a new 4* & It is great You need to check
the alierons (sp) they need to move maybe 60% up &40% down
to make it turn properly (Called Adverse yaw when u don't have it set so) I mde a servo arm out of a wheel type to do this .
U need the drive holes about 15d or so back from center to the planes rear to get this . After saw off enough of the wheel to clear if u are using clevises. I hear that this can be done w/ 2 servoes on alerions
& a computer radio also.

vanman

My Feedback: (2)

I do like my 4*, even if it has been in the ground 3 times now. But if I had to give advice as to the first low wing (ok technically its a mid wing ) and in my opinion their second plane there is no other plane than the Sig Somethin Extra This plane is so forgiving, has NO bad tendencies at all (and face it the 4* does have some quirky tendencies, of course everyone that I have talked to about the 4* has a different set of tendencies)

The somethin extra is a dream to fly, easy to land, does all the tricks....... Definetely something to consider for that second plane!

dz06

Vanman,

Do you really find the Somethin Extra easy to fly? I actually bought one before the 4*, but was scared off flying it by the instructions. They indicate it should only be for intermediate or advanced pilot. My plan was to progress to the SE after the 4*. You know my record with the 4*. So far I wouldn't exactly call it progress.
The SE seemed really twitchy when flown on Realflight G2. How did you set up the throws? On G2 the SE's roll rate is extreme. I would love to fly the SE, but assumed it would be a much greater challenge than the 4* which I obviously have not yet mastered.

vanman

My Feedback: (2)

I would not allow the book to scare you off flying a truly GREAT flying plane.

I have not found mine (actually my sons) to be twitchy in the slightest. I truly believe it is much easier to fly than the 4*. Being a mid-wing learning beginning aerobatics is actually a bit easier, its inverted flight characteristics are very very easy to master with almost no down elevator. It rolls very axially with no elevator input needed. (thats the beauty of a mid-wing)

It will slow down with no bad stall characteristics which is actually about the only thing that I found that I didn't really like about the 4* (thats how it hit the ground 2 of the 3 times, stalled on final about 3 feet off the ground and the wing dropped and it cartwheeled)

There is actually alot about flying the simulators that I dont care for, I dont think they give an accurate depiction of what the real plane is like simply because you dont have your periferal vision, that sight in relation to the ground until it is too late.

Anyhow, definetely fly your somethin extra....my son flies his (on the buddy cord) and he still has not been signed off on the trainer yet. I like it better than any other plane I have (except my Zagi ).

kenthaas1

i crashed my trainer a few times then i put the rx in a p-51 40 size with a os61sf on it it has about 30 flights till sat 10 flight than ailerons went full right at 90 mph the radar gun said so i have a lot of work to put it back to gather i wish i new that you can send rx back to manufacturer and have them checked expensive lesson on my part for 50.00 i can buy a new one in the future i will buy a new one send the crashed back to be checked before i put it in a nother plane thats my 0.02 cent worth

vanman

My Feedback: (2)

kenthaas1

I fly and sell the GWS 8 channel dual conversion receivers for 40 bucks and the crystals for 10. Why pay more for the name!

Before everyone jumps all over me about that last comment, it is my 2 cents worth.....I am not trying to stir up the debate again...........

If you need one let me know.....

SaturnV

Once again, Kenthaas1 has made the point of what can happen when you re-use a crashed receiver without having it checked. It may act just fine for a few flights, then.....BAM! outa control and into the ground. Your plane may not be cursed, it may be your receiver.

kenthaas1

ok my math may be as bad as my spelling but that is 50.00 in my book how much do you spend on a plane

vanman

My Feedback: (2)

Your math is not wrong, I was not trying to indicate that it was, I merely put out there that I have the receivers available WITH the crystal for 50.

Most are 50 or more WITHOUT the crystal

beavertail

The four star is a great plane, It seems that there is something else thats going on with the plane. I cant get mine to stall until it seems like it stops. Ive got the 60 yellow ARF. It was my third plane and I still love flying it. THe problem I see in my club as well as others, is that when guys solo, they immediately want to jump into another more aerobatic plane, And that is fine, but they need to ease into it, and learn more about flying,ie: tip stalls, High aoa flying and stuff that maybe their instructor never learned themselves, I am not saying that that is directly the problem here, just something I wanted to point out

kenthaas1

i may need a new rx i put my q500 in a group of oak trees at about 113 mph it was all pilots fault (tunnel vision) is ther a way to trane your self to lead plains so you can see the whole pic not just the plaine broken parts list wing beond repair fuse can be fix 2 good servos 1 smashed (if it the servo) rx has lots of bent pins prop i did find my os46fx 25 yards a way no needle boy i had fun today i got to climb a tree roflmao

beavertail

I dont think so, just be aware of your surroundings, ie; trees.
If your at a new field, look around and think about things you can hit and stay away from them.