willybe

I am wanting to us the Draganfly to mainly photograph microwave tower antenna arrays. I do work on the electronics in microwave towers, and this would be a great if I could offer this service also. I am wanting input on which unit will suit my needs best. I am looking at the Draganflyer V TI Pro. but I am wondering if the SAVS system would be a better way to go. also what mm lens is on the cameras because I will need fairly close shots of damage to the antennas.

Thanks for all comments and help

willybe

Sorry for the spelling mistakes. sometimes my fingers are faster than my brain.[sm=biggrin.gif]

Sky High

I have thought about doing the same thing but definitely with the towers not live at the time so you don't get knocked out of the sky. But from what I've heard and the video I've seen of RC planes and helos flying very close, they don't lose the signal. I have seen aerial images of cell tower arrays from larger RC helos that can easily carry a still camera and they flew very close getting clear images with alot of detail. As far as the DF series, the SAVS is the only one that can provide clear and stabile enough images/video so far. All of the DF cameras are fixed lens micro board cameras so there's not much choice for framing. A live tower may cause major hits in wireless video though. The video I've seen of close proximity was recorded onboard. [link=http://helifreak.com/viewtopic.php?t=25756&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0]Here[/link] is thread with images about someone already doing this but with a larger RC helo.

willybe

we do have some 2 gig microwave towers most of the stuff is 6gig and all will be 7gig starting next year. I do have other plans for it also
TV towers i am afraid are a no no with several 1000 watts TX power. I am not even going to try. I don't think I will have any trouble with the 2gig I do have the ability to shut the system down if need be. I talked with the Draganflyer people today and have decided on the SAVA the lens is a 4mm, I wish it was a little stronger but we will have to see.

love to chat with you if you decide to do we maybe able to help each other out on ideas.

Sky High

Did you see DFI's video of flying the SAVS really close to electrical towers? They aren't nearly as tall as cell towers though. Flying as high as cell towers could be very tricky because of their height and trying to judge and maintain a safe distance from it while hovering.

willybe

well I am counting on my guy that watches the video from the camera to help guide me. my tallest tower is 300 feet. I know i you will have to stand some distance from the tower and watch the RC and when you get close to the tower its going to be up to the video guy to guide you in LOL.

I think it will work, but there will have to have a second person involved.

Sky High

I'm thinking at that distance there will be too much of a delay, even if it's a couple of seconds, in what he tells you and your reaction time. Drifting and the visible size of the helo are hard issues to overcome if not just manage, especially at a significant distance. To get an idea of how little bitty the SAVS will be at 200-300 ft, just go to a football field, stand in one end zone and fly the SAVS to the other. That's an accurate 300 ft ruler!

willybe

this is true, I don't have a good answer for that. except to try it. I am sure it will be a problem to over come. other that trying to guide it by your self by the video, and that would be tricky but after you got you elevation it may not be to bad if you can take it slow. if you have another person guide you to the rite hight then you look at the video and fly it while he looks at the unit. maybe with binoculars .[sm=72_72.gif]...lol starting to get wild. All i know is to try it and see what it takes and adjust from there. i am thinking about up grading the lens maybe to a 6 mm just to stay away from the tower more. this should help keep you from accidentally flying in to it. There are a lot of other uses for it but this would be a good money maker if it works out. We pay tower crews anyplace form $500 to $1000 dollars to climb a tower and just take pictures and come back down maybe 2 hours worth of work. if we have a problem then pay them again to go go back up fix it......I know it is a dangerous job so you cant blame them.......this would be safer and could be done cheaper, I am sure with this idea. It will just take some working out the bugs....I HOPE...LOL

Sky High

I'm actually speaking from practical experience. I have flown as high and higher than those towers and there is a mental delay in perception of time from the stick input to the reaction of the helo to that command. At that distance, you have to soften your stick inputs because it's easy to overcorrect and then it's like a chain reaction leading to a crash. If you think listening to an assistant would be difficult, then trying to fly this thing at altitude by video assist would give you a good case of vertigo. There are two main issues with flying by video, commonly known as FPV (first person view), with RC. One is that with a fixed camera you don't have peripheral vision to maintain orientation and the other is that if the video link is lost, even for a few seconds, you will never find that dot in the sky in time to recover. As far as the lens, you want a wide lens on this type of platform because it transfers less vibration to the image. The longer the lens, the more subtle vibrations will be transferred. If DFI upgrades their system with GPS and position/heading hold like with the Carvec system, it would take all of the hard work of just hovering and correcting at that distance out of the mix and you could concentrate on the framing. There are units available with that technology now but not for less than $10K.

a8906

What about using a pair of video glasses like Scott from slcity.com?
That way you could bypass the second man delay for instructions.
check out his website http://www.slcity.com/df/garden/360/welcome.html I believe there is a demo of him using that system......He may be able to give you some valuable input to your quandry.
Also Denny AKA (SAVS) has the same setup for watching what the camera is seeing as well as being able to keep your eye on your bird.

there y'go, ya got my 2 cents worth....now I'm broke

Dave

Sky High

I wasn't specific but that's what I was referring to using as video assist and in my opinion eyewear is only good for a quick frame reference and not actually flying FPV. I do think eyewear is more useful with a plane that flies in straight lines which makes it more predictable. Flying with eyewear at a low height such as the tree line or slightly above and then flying 200 ft plus are two different experiences too. The eyewear is definitely better than having to glance away at a monitor though. I'm certainly not saying that what willybe wants to do can't be done but am just attempting to give him an idea of what to expect. One thing is for sure, he, like most of us, will have alot of fun trying because the DF is very fun to fly. He will suffer from that new DF smell for the first few weeks.

Willybe, I just noticed in your initial post that you said photographing the towers. Are you referring to stills or video. Because if it's stills, that's a whole 'nother skill set that I have no experience with, yet. However, there are several threads about DF pilots successfully getting great stills with their DF but none that I know of that are close to a structure yet. Good luck either way and be sure to post your results.

willybe

OK....Well, thats what I got on here for is to talk to experienced people. We only have a couple towers which are 300 ft and they have TV transmitters on them which we are not responsible for, most of our stuff is actually around the 200ft mark. but i do understand what you are saying, Its just a idea that sounded good. and when I get my DF which should be next month ,You know I,ll have to try it.... just like a kid... have to experiences it for myself...lol I was looking at the the same page as A8906 last night.. I did like the glasses and found them for around $700, but don't remember where..... the GPS would be great....I am looking at getting the SAVS model.....hope I remember to but extra props..lol if the tower thing don't work out i still have other ideas..... I think I saw some of your videos last night on some page was that you?

Sky High

Well, I don't know which page you're referring to. I don't have ESPN you know.

willybe

After thinking about it I think it was a link here on rcuniverse..lol I have looked at so many videos trying to figure this thing out they are all running together.....lol...

TheHindmost

Wow, I didn't realize watching ESPN could make you clairvoyant!

Will

Sky High

Surely you jest? Just in case for all of those that don't know, ESPN is a blonde's version of ESP. Can I call you Surely?

laceycopter

Hey!!!! was that a blonde joke!!! [X(] Watch it!!... [>:]
Lacey

Sky High

What are you talking about? You don't even have blonde hair. I think I saw a picture of you over on RC Groups a while back and I didn't say anything about girls anyway, so there! I have blonde hair.

willybe

nice video, the creator of draganflyer talks about it http://rcvehicles.about.com/gi/dynam...el_Edited.html



long link...lol

laceycopter

Saw my Picture???..Hhhmmm...well my hair IS blonde... this week...Mostly...

SAVS

Since my name came up I guess I now have to put in my 2 cents. The SAVS can do many things, it can take great video, you can mount a digital still camera on it, BUT and I mean BUT! The product is only going to be as good as the pilot! I have the glasses, the digital camera with a very usable mount, the DVD/Camcorder, basically all the bells and whistles BUT, my finished product is only as good as I can pilot.

I took off the glasses, unmounted the digital camera, put down the video capture board (I hang it on a post with one antenna pointing upward and one about level with the ground) and focus on purely piloting. I have had the SAVS since late December and have flown as often as the weather allows in winter and I am just now getting somewhat comfortable. The SAVS was my first attempt at any RC, I have since submersed myself in the task of getting good at it. Several hours a day reading forums, reading manuals (digital, video, transmitter, acronyms up the wazoo, fabricating, purchasing, you name it). I have since purchased an EasyStar for when the winds are too high for the SAVS and a Slow Stick for when I need really slow aerial photos in tighter areas. At this point I have only had the EZ out once and have modified it to carry a video and digital camera. I still need to learn to fly it. The SS is on the bench getting built with the many mods needed to use it for AP. I still need to do the maiden and also learn to fly it.

Ok' now we get to the good part. I am getting paid to learn and most of the stuff is being paid for by my employer. Add that all up and you get many hours, lots of $$$$ and no real product that I would show my boss as of yet (almost 4 months). I tell him it's winter and it may take several more months. Don't expect to just jump in to this and produce right away, I am a competent person at doing what ever it takes and it has already been a long road. Don't get me wrong I LOVE it (it just does not feel like it loves me all the time )

So if you have the time and $$$$ do it. I think you said you pay $300 to have someone else do the tower inspections, that's cheap! The best I could find someone to AP our athletic field developments was $1000 each. If I get say 12 AP'ed and they are of good quality the pay back is there. We have around 100 sites that need to be done so it was a no brainer. Do I question why on Gods green earth I ever volunteered, you bet.

So in closing I hope this has helped enlighten you to where your path may take you. The entire experience has shown me what a talented group the RC'ers are, always so helpful and great with sharing of knowledge and experience.

Best Guess: Several more years and some one may think I am a pilot too...Denny

willybe

Hay glad to here from you. IF slcity.com is your page I am very impressed with your videos. I only hope I can catch on to it as good as you have in the time you have been doing it. The people on here have been very supportive and helpful, I am hoping to be a proud owner of the SAVS model around the end of April first of May. I know what I want to do starting out, may or may not work a lot because of the hight issues and skill level, but I am looking forward to trying. We pay our tower crews between $500 and $1000 to just climb the tower and at the most change a bulb for that price and we supply the parts. I am hoping this will work for visual inspections as I was saying our highest towers are around 300ft but most of our microwave dishes are not over 250ft unless it a TV transmitter and we just rent to them.lol those towers I dont know how the transmitter will effect the DF and I probably don't want to find out.

I am very curious on what kind of Digital camera you have mounted on your and also the camcorder. I would probable be interested in doing this sooner or later. anyway I just got in an have to run. again Very impress with your videos.

SAVS

Sorry' I'm SAVS (Denny) and not the owner of Slcity. Hope your not too disappointed...

Sky High

SAVS, you just ruined his day!

flyingdutchie

[offtopic=on]Hey denny,guess what.. the EZ floats and can be controlled like an rc boat..(yes i crashed it into a canal) So you're getting the hang of flying the DF now ?[/offtopic]
As for WillyBee,get the df ti pro without the rather $$$ camera setup,and built your own for the money you save(can you say BlackwidowAV?)
Oh and where is the link to Lacey's picture
?