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Erratic Hovering - need help

Old 05-18-2007, 09:25 PM
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reemas
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Default Erratic Hovering - need help

I finally fixed my motor problem from an earlier thread (I soldered the wires PROPERLY on the left motor).

I'm having a hard time hovering though. I do fly planes and gliders, so I'm comfortable with subtle movements but here's my issue:

When I give enough throttle to hover, the DF starts going up slowly and will suddenly bank hard left. And if I compensate it banks hard right and starts swaying like crazy. I tried this indoors with the Ti turned off (at least I think it was off, there was no confirmation).

I also tried outdoors with the Ti turned on (again I get no confirmation if it's really on or off) and same issue. Is it just me? I can't even trim it out because as soon as it gets to hover for 2-3 seconds it'll bank left or right and I'll have to correct it.

Please help.
Old 05-18-2007, 10:21 PM
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l8braker
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

Have you ever flown a helicopter? I had the same problem when I first started, and the solution is you barely need to correct then re-center the stick. glad to hear you got the motor wired up though. Did you do it yourself?
Old 05-19-2007, 12:39 AM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

What was the fix for the problem with the rotors hitting the frame? Perfect Ti calibration is two solid LEDs when calibrated properly. One LED is partial Ti which result in spongy flight inputs. DFI programs the Tx with two different flight modes with one that dampens inputs. I reset mine to factory settings for instant sensitivity.
Old 05-19-2007, 04:29 AM
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reemas
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

is it better to learn indoors with the Ti off and no wind, or outdoors, with the Ti on?

also, the manual confused me a little. can someone explain these 3 steps:

1.) How to enable Ti
2.) How to disable Ti
3.) I'm using my Futaba 9CAP - is there a switch to enable / disable Ti, or is that only on other DF models? I have the DF V Ti Rc.

I just bent the rotors a little to keep them from hitting the frame.
Old 05-19-2007, 04:47 AM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

The rotors should cone up when spun up to flight speed. I can't figure out whey would have been tapping the frame while idling or unless you were performing agressive moves.

The Ti switch should be labeled on the left side of the Tx. Ti should be used outside in an unconfined area for best results. [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3621880]Here[/link] is a post with detailed steps.

Old 05-19-2007, 12:02 PM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

ORIGINAL: reemas
When I give enough throttle to hover, the DF starts going up slowly and will suddenly bank hard left. And if I compensate it banks hard right and starts swaying like crazy. I tried this indoors with the Ti turned off (at least I think it was off, there was no confirmation).
How well can you fly the simulator? If you are completely in control on the sim, but the DF is acting wacky in real life, then maybe there's something not right with the DF. Helicopters are inherently unstable, and even with Ti, need constant input. It's all a matter of degree, but what you're describing is pretty much normal behavior. BTW, the DF in the sim flies about halfway easy between having the Ti on and Ti off on the real thing.

ORIGINAL: reemas

is it better to learn indoors with the Ti off and no wind, or outdoors, with the Ti on?

also, the manual confused me a little. can someone explain these 3 steps:

1.) How to enable Ti
2.) How to disable Ti
3.) I'm using my Futaba 9CAP - is there a switch to enable / disable Ti, or is that only on other DF models? I have the DF V Ti Rc.
I'd recommend practicing with the Ti on, outside on a calm day if you're just learning. If you initialize it correctly, this makes the DF as easy to fly as a co-axial beginner's helicopter like the Blade CX.

a) Turn on the Tx and flip the Thermal Intelligence switch (CH 5) to "On".
b) Turn on the DF.
c) Stand on a grassy area and hold the DF by the base plate at arm's length away from you, so that the sensors don't see your body heat, with the green LEDs pointed to the sky. Peek over the top to ensure that both green LEDs are on. With your left hand reach under the canopy and press the arming button.
d) Take a small piece of cardboard and place the DF very level in an area of the yard that is the farthest away from any vertical structure, berm, etc., that might be storing heat. You want the sensors to "see" the horizon. The less heat they see above the ground, the less trimming you'll have to do.
e) From a distance of 15-20' (for the reasons described above), push the throttle stick down and to the right for a couple of seconds.
f) Take off from your cardboard base. It will probably lift evenly because that's where you calibrated the horizon. However, if you turn the nose to a new heading, it might drift one way or the other.

Make sure you perform each step in order, or the process won't work. And don't turn off the Ti switch on your Tx when you're flying! It won't work right when you turn it back on. The DF has to see CH 5 on when it boots up. However, the Ti is very reliable and helpful - you should use it.

ORIGINAL: Sky High
...DFI programs the Tx with two different flight modes with one that dampens inputs. I reset mine to factory settings for instant sensitivity.
The settings from the DFI factory are really sloppy. I think they make it harder to learn, rather than easier. I started off flying w/o Ti on the "Active" D/R position. I now have moved the "Active" D/R settings to the "Training/Video" settings for non-Ti practice, and have tightened up the "Active" parameters for better response with Ti.

Here are the original DFI factory settings:
Ch.......D/R ^........D/R v........EPA ^........EPA v........EXPO ^........EXPO v
1........100%..........50%.........n/a............100%........-35%...........-45%.......Roll
2........100%..........50%.........n/a............100%........-35%...........-45%.......Pitch
4........100%..........80%.........n/a............140%........-35%...........-45%.......Yaw

My new settings:
Ch.......D/R ^........D/R v........EPA ^........EPA v........EXPO ^........EXPO v
1........100%.........100%.........n/a............100%........-20%...........-35%.......Roll
2........100%.........100%.........n/a............100%........-20%...........-35%.......Pitch
4........100%.........100%.........n/a............140%........-20%...........-35%.......Yaw

CH 1, 2 & 3 are reverse servo, and 4, 5 & 6 are normal (so don't just reset all the parameters to default).
Old 05-19-2007, 12:52 PM
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reemas
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

unfortunately im using my own transmitter, a futaba 9cap. i dont know which switch is for turning on and off the Ti. is there any way of knowing for sure if it's on or off? any type of blinking led or anything by the DF??

i guess part of the problem is I don't know when it is on or off.....
Old 05-19-2007, 02:20 PM
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reemas
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

well thanks for the help everyone. i have to beleive my model is not functioning properly and is defective. it was NOT test flown (obviously since it cannot fly with 1 of the rotors spinning backwards) and now i'm experiencing another issue!!!!

now when i give it throttle only 2 motors (left and right) spin. the front and rear spin slowly and then stop. what a drag to wait so long and receive junk in the mail.

i did speak with DF and they authorized an RMA. I will let you know how it goes and how their support is for all you future purchasers. thanks again for the help.

Old 05-19-2007, 05:07 PM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

ORIGINAL: BB_DF

... The settings from the DFI factory are really sloppy. I think they make it harder to learn, rather than easier. I started off flying w/o Ti on the "Active" D/R position. I now have moved the "Active" D/R settings to the "Training/Video" settings for non-Ti practice, and have tightened up the "Active" parameters for better response with Ti.

CH 1, 2 & 3 are reverse servo, and 4, 5 & 6 are normal (so don't just reset all the parameters to default).
Yeah, I know. I had flown with the Hi Tech Laser 6 analog Tx for the first few months with full sensitivity so that's all I know. I flew hundreds of flights real high and far away with very few crashes for a long time. Then I got the newer Futaba digital Tx with DFI's new settings and crashed only a few feet off the ground because the settings had too much lag in them. I was not happy with that. [:@] [>:] They do that to dampen overcorrection but I need full sensitivity. So, I called Jeremy and he told me how to set it back to full sensitivity and everything's been fine since. So, when you say don't set it to default, isn't that what Jeremy told me how to do?
Old 05-19-2007, 06:31 PM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

Probably by "default" he meant D/R set to 100% and Expo to 0%, which would give you direct 1-to-1 response, the fastest control you can get. However, on the DF the first three channels are set to "Reverse". "Normal" and "Reverse" are arbitrary - on an airplane for instance, the control horn might be on the top of the elevator or the bottom, so there's an easy way on the transmitter to select the correct movement. If "Factory Default" sets all the channels to "Normal", your roll and pitch would work backwards, and your throttle would be at full bore with the stick full down [X(].

Also note that for CH 4 (Yaw) the End Point Adjustment is set to 140%. This no doubt has something to do with the specific circuit design, but I would guess that if you set it to 100% like the other channels, you would not get the full response from that channel. One thing interesting about the DF is that it is a "slow yawer" - just the opposite of what makes most RC helis so hard to fly.
Old 05-19-2007, 06:42 PM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

I just told Jerremy that I wanted my Futaba to be as sensitive as the Laser and he took me through the steps. When scrolling through the values, I do remember a few being negative. All I know is that I must have full sensitivity to fly.
Old 05-19-2007, 08:52 PM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help


ORIGINAL: Sky High

All I know is that I must have full sensitivity to fly.

Aaaawww...that explains it!
You always say you only fly with TI on.
Try dialing in about -20 expo on one side of your D/R switch(for flying with TI off) it will be much easier to fly with TI OFF.
Expo doesn't make it less responsive....just less sensitive around the center of the stick.(easier to hover mostly)
Try it with TI off...you'll like it.
Happy Flyin,
Lacey
Old 05-19-2007, 08:59 PM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

ORIGINAL: laceycopter

Try it with TI off...you'll like it.
So if I do, are you going to pay for the replacement parts?
Old 05-19-2007, 09:05 PM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

Blah!!!!!...you won't crash ...you know how to fly...just dial in some expo.
Old 05-20-2007, 01:16 AM
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Default RE: Erratic Hovering - need help

Hi,

I have purchased my DF V with a 4 channel Futaba (4YF) and later had the logic board upgraded to support a 6 channel radio (6EXAP). Unfortunately, there is no documentation from Draganfly or Spectrolutions that I could locate describing what channels (aside from the obvious) are assigned to what, so I came up with my own chart:

+--+--------+--------+----------+-----------+---------------------------------+
| | | | Normal | Dual Rate | |
|Ch|Function|Reversed| Position | Up/Down |Notes |
+--+--------+--------+----------+-----------+---------------------------------+
| 1|Aileron |Yes |Center | 80%/50% |Roll |
| 2|Elevator|Yes |Center | 80%/50% |Pitch |
| 3|Throttle|Yes |Down | N/A | |
| 4|Rudder |No |Center | 100%/80% |Yaw |
| 5|Gear |No |Up(On) | N/A |Thermal intelligence (Ti) |
| 6|Flaps |No |Full Right| N/A |Ti sensitivity 100% @ full right |
+--+--------+--------+----------+-----------+---------------------------------+


NOTE: This has been copies from a text file, so it looks odd because of space formating without <amp>nbsp;.

Please disregard the dual rate settings, since those are my own. This seems to work for me, however, feel free to correct any obvious mistakes I have made.

Just as a sidenote, I have also experienced erratic hovering issues, however those went away after having the logic board upgraded to support a 6 channel radio. I think it had to do with me not enabling Ti properly, since without Ti it flew fine. Now it's just a matter of calibrating and flipping the switch whenever I want Ti enabled or disabled.

Vas

ORIGINAL: reemas

unfortunately im using my own transmitter, a futaba 9cap. i dont know which switch is for turning on and off the Ti. is there any way of knowing for sure if it's on or off? any type of blinking led or anything by the DF??

i guess part of the problem is I don't know when it is on or off.....

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