Pentagon Predator's Crashing
08-26-2008, 08:04 AM
#1
Pentagon Predator's Crashing
Reading today's news, there have been many Predator's crashing. Pilot error they say. Just what we need, our enemy's dissecting our technology and RC gear, etc. Why doesn't the Pentagon get the AMA involved in this ?
I remember Don Lowe in the late 60's and early 70's, was in charge of the Air Force Program at WPAFB for this. I think they were using regular AF pilot's, training with a TV screen inside an A/C van, and the camera's in the nose of the RPV. That was primitive compared to today's technology, but a lot of it started there.
Crank
I remember Don Lowe in the late 60's and early 70's, was in charge of the Air Force Program at WPAFB for this. I think they were using regular AF pilot's, training with a TV screen inside an A/C van, and the camera's in the nose of the RPV. That was primitive compared to today's technology, but a lot of it started there.
Crank
08-26-2008, 10:55 AM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
The article is not very specific about the human error causes. "On rare occasions, pilots bank the aircraft so steeply that the drones briefly lose contact with the satellite feeding them commands."
Aren't Predators just big powered gliders? It seems to me you could install some sort of failsafe that brings them back to straight and level if the signal is lost.
Tom
Aren't Predators just big powered gliders? It seems to me you could install some sort of failsafe that brings them back to straight and level if the signal is lost.
Tom
08-26-2008, 11:30 AM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
"The Air Force has increased the sheer volume of pilots put through the training pipeline and shipped them off to war with the bare minimum training required"
08-26-2008, 04:51 PM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
Running the aircraft out of fuel would be one of the few things that a pilot could do to crash the bird.
Basically, the aircraft (Predators) fly themselves autonomously and do not need a steady RF link to continue flying. Pilot choices, such as overriding autonomous control to fly low in a mountainous area for a look-see could also be a problem. Frankly, I doubt that is the problem. Of course, like the rest of us, I don't know anything for a fact either.
Many folks underestimate the amount of technology and vast wealth behind the terrorist movements. Perhaps someone has developed an EMP weapon that is portable and effective. Or someone (more likely) has found a way to influence the bird's programming. Many of my friends of Arabic descent are super programmers. Yeah, stereotyping, but in this case it works.
It puzzles me as to why an official government source would provide the enemy with such information in a public manner.
Ed Cregger
Basically, the aircraft (Predators) fly themselves autonomously and do not need a steady RF link to continue flying. Pilot choices, such as overriding autonomous control to fly low in a mountainous area for a look-see could also be a problem. Frankly, I doubt that is the problem. Of course, like the rest of us, I don't know anything for a fact either.
Many folks underestimate the amount of technology and vast wealth behind the terrorist movements. Perhaps someone has developed an EMP weapon that is portable and effective. Or someone (more likely) has found a way to influence the bird's programming. Many of my friends of Arabic descent are super programmers. Yeah, stereotyping, but in this case it works.
It puzzles me as to why an official government source would provide the enemy with such information in a public manner.
Ed Cregger
08-26-2008, 05:43 PM
#7
RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
The Chinese, meaning the (Red Chinese, as the military runs the country), already have our Virginia Class submarine's plans. Go figure. I think that Clinton gave them our missle guidance system's info. Now we have Bush's buddy, Putin, the KGB guy, comes to Bush's ranch in Texas, learns how to say, "howdy". Did the State Department give all of Putin's friends passes to go anywhere in the USA that they wanted to? I can't believe what is running our country. I voted for Bush twice, and is Iraq going to pay us back for the billion's we gave to them? Now we have Venezuela arming themselves with Russian military hardware, right in our back yard.
Last month, Donald Trump sold a house on the water in Palm Beach, for close to $40M, to a Russian oil tycoon. This is unbelievable, and the cold war is starting up again. Now, is the KGB going to guarding that place? Where did this Russian tycoon get the money to buy this place, and why did our government even let the sale go through ?
They have given America away. These politician's, retire from Congress or the Senate, then go to work for a foreign government, as a lobbyist.
Back on the subject, the Predator crashes, what happens to all the equpment. I don't hear about self destruct.
Crank
Last month, Donald Trump sold a house on the water in Palm Beach, for close to $40M, to a Russian oil tycoon. This is unbelievable, and the cold war is starting up again. Now, is the KGB going to guarding that place? Where did this Russian tycoon get the money to buy this place, and why did our government even let the sale go through ?
They have given America away. These politician's, retire from Congress or the Senate, then go to work for a foreign government, as a lobbyist.
Back on the subject, the Predator crashes, what happens to all the equpment. I don't hear about self destruct.
Crank
08-27-2008, 08:38 AM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
Predator pilots actually have full control over the aircraft for a good portion of the mission profile. The autonomous flight feature is mainly for preplanned searches and getting to and from a target area. Those Predator videos, which float around the internet, are normally from aircraft under pilot control.
09-07-2008, 04:34 PM
#15
RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
Hello Crankpin,
You remember my plane and post were gone, stealth?
See the video Teletube Test in member airplane video's, Remote control by video link with altimeter and variometer. Test flight for the Taurus in the future.
Tell me what do you think about it?
Cees
You remember my plane and post were gone, stealth?
See the video Teletube Test in member airplane video's, Remote control by video link with altimeter and variometer. Test flight for the Taurus in the future.
Tell me what do you think about it?
Cees
09-07-2008, 09:52 PM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
On a UAV of that size I am almost 100% positive that they would have somthing of a "loss coms Plan". I fly a small UAV for the NAVY and we have a "loss com" directive in our Autopilot in the Aircraft.
09-08-2008, 04:15 AM
#17
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
ORIGINAL: BumRC
Predator pilots actually have full control over the aircraft for a good portion of the mission profile. The autonomous flight feature is mainly for preplanned searches and getting to and from a target area. Those Predator videos, which float around the internet, are normally from aircraft under pilot control.
Predator pilots actually have full control over the aircraft for a good portion of the mission profile. The autonomous flight feature is mainly for preplanned searches and getting to and from a target area. Those Predator videos, which float around the internet, are normally from aircraft under pilot control.
-
Why? All one would need is a stabilizing system and a simple joystick with left and right control. No "pilot" is necessary.
If commercial airliners can be landed successfully via computer with no human input, and they can, certainly the autonomous flight control system can be upgraded to the point that no real professional pilot is needed for any part of the UAV's mission. This is just so much "good old boy" crap to use as an excuse to keep training real pilots at a time when they are becoming obsolete.
Ed Cregger
09-08-2008, 04:45 AM
#18
RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
[quote]ORIGINAL: Taurus Flyer
Hello Crankpin,
You remember my plane and post were gone, stealth?
See the video Teletube Test in member airplane video's, Remote control by video link with altimeter and variometer. Test flight for the Taurus in the future.
Tell me what do you think about it?
Cees
================================================== ================================
Sent you a PM.
Crank
09-08-2008, 12:06 PM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger
Why? All one would need is a stabilizing system and a simple joystick with left and right control. No "pilot" is necessary.
If commercial airliners can be landed successfully via computer with no human input, and they can, certainly the autonomous flight control system can be upgraded to the point that no real professional pilot is needed for any part of the UAV's mission. This is just so much "good old boy" crap to use as an excuse to keep training real pilots at a time when they are becoming obsolete.
Ed Cregger
Why? All one would need is a stabilizing system and a simple joystick with left and right control. No "pilot" is necessary.
If commercial airliners can be landed successfully via computer with no human input, and they can, certainly the autonomous flight control system can be upgraded to the point that no real professional pilot is needed for any part of the UAV's mission. This is just so much "good old boy" crap to use as an excuse to keep training real pilots at a time when they are becoming obsolete.
Ed Cregger
Tom
09-08-2008, 02:16 PM
#20
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
ORIGINAL: Trisquire
You might have to deviate from the flight plan every now and then. Maybe the General wants you to circle a jeep, so he can get a closer look at it.
Tom
**********
I grew up wanting to graduate from the USAF Academy and be trained to be a pilot afterwards. Never happened because of astigmatism and the need for eyeglasses. I was heart broken, but such is life.
So, what I'm saying is that I don't have it out for professional pilots. After all, I wanted to be one myself.
When the UAV is set up properly for autonomous flight, which I feel certain that they are, all a curious general would need to do is move the rudder stick, or equivalent, left or right to take a detour to the anticipated target area or area of interest. What would really happen, though, is that an enlisted man would find the coordinates for the site of interest and then plug them into the computer onboard the UAV via satellite link. The General might get to aim the observational array, but I doubt he would cheat the enlisted man out of doing his job. In fact, there would be no real reason to have the General at the UAV flight center. His observations could be made and then transmitted to him via the internet, perhaps even to his laptop or cellphone.
I am not against real people flying planes. I am against real human beings being captured and tortured for absolutely no benefit to our country, if you know what I mean. The vast majority of USAF flying will eventually be taken over by pilotless aircraft. Just as the infantry will eventually (long time from now) by combat robots, whose operators will be connected via telepresence and will actually experience the feeling of being there within their robot substitute body. Yes, I am a sci-fi writer too, so such unusual ideas are not new to me.
Ed Cregger
ORIGINAL: Ed Cregger
Why? All one would need is a stabilizing system and a simple joystick with left and right control. No "pilot" is necessary.
If commercial airliners can be landed successfully via computer with no human input, and they can, certainly the autonomous flight control system can be upgraded to the point that no real professional pilot is needed for any part of the UAV's mission. This is just so much "good old boy" crap to use as an excuse to keep training real pilots at a time when they are becoming obsolete.
Ed Cregger
Why? All one would need is a stabilizing system and a simple joystick with left and right control. No "pilot" is necessary.
If commercial airliners can be landed successfully via computer with no human input, and they can, certainly the autonomous flight control system can be upgraded to the point that no real professional pilot is needed for any part of the UAV's mission. This is just so much "good old boy" crap to use as an excuse to keep training real pilots at a time when they are becoming obsolete.
Ed Cregger
Tom
**********
I grew up wanting to graduate from the USAF Academy and be trained to be a pilot afterwards. Never happened because of astigmatism and the need for eyeglasses. I was heart broken, but such is life.
So, what I'm saying is that I don't have it out for professional pilots. After all, I wanted to be one myself.
When the UAV is set up properly for autonomous flight, which I feel certain that they are, all a curious general would need to do is move the rudder stick, or equivalent, left or right to take a detour to the anticipated target area or area of interest. What would really happen, though, is that an enlisted man would find the coordinates for the site of interest and then plug them into the computer onboard the UAV via satellite link. The General might get to aim the observational array, but I doubt he would cheat the enlisted man out of doing his job. In fact, there would be no real reason to have the General at the UAV flight center. His observations could be made and then transmitted to him via the internet, perhaps even to his laptop or cellphone.
I am not against real people flying planes. I am against real human beings being captured and tortured for absolutely no benefit to our country, if you know what I mean. The vast majority of USAF flying will eventually be taken over by pilotless aircraft. Just as the infantry will eventually (long time from now) by combat robots, whose operators will be connected via telepresence and will actually experience the feeling of being there within their robot substitute body. Yes, I am a sci-fi writer too, so such unusual ideas are not new to me.
Ed Cregger
09-10-2008, 04:38 PM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
Well EC... I think that is all very much far sighted, but not practical anytime soon (perhaps too much Sci-Fi). The USAF is a little extreme by demanding that pilots, trained at great expense, be used to fly UAVs, but that is their call and certainly not the truth for other services. You seem to have a lot of faith in the value of the computer systems used to make these UAVs work, but your opinion about whether pilots are necessary does not change the fact that they are used and do fly the UAVs. I know that enlisted personnel are used to operate the sensors on the aircraft (at least on Predators and possibly Global Hawk) although smaller UAV systems are run entirely by enlisted personnel (such as by Security Forces and Special Forces units). I currently serve in the USAF and know that a lot of new stuff is right around the corner, but computers cannot be trusted with certain functions and some form of piloting skill is needed for UAVs. In particular, all shoot dont shoot functions have to be commanded by a human. That is why, at least for the forseable future, there will not be a UCAV nuclear capable bomber, there has to be a human involved directly. The last thing you want is a machine capable of engaging targets with high tech gizmos without a human interface. Finally, while it is true that most anyone who can play a video game might be able to manipulate a joy stick to make a UAV go where they want, they would still need training to correct any form of exit from controlled flight, something computers often allow to happen.
Someday, everything you speak of may happen... but for right now, the USAF and entire Dod have good reasons for doing things the way they do with regards to UAVs.
Someday, everything you speak of may happen... but for right now, the USAF and entire Dod have good reasons for doing things the way they do with regards to UAVs.
09-22-2008, 01:52 PM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
I am not a flyer i like to stick to the ground. But i am currently in Iraq as we speak and we have a UAV that is launched right behind my living area. I have been in the hanger to check this thing out and just to let you know when they go down and crash if the UAV winds up in the wrong hands there is a POA (plan of action) that happens. It is able to rid itself of all the information that is stored on its memory. Like BumRc says there is good reason for everything that is being done with all the UAV but they are all cool as hell in my book.
09-22-2008, 07:08 PM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
T-MAXX,
Is that UAV a Shadow. Thats the UAV the Army was operating out of the area I was in over there, they were pretty sweet. Often when we would call in a rocket launch, from the badguys, a Shadow would go tearing off in that direction to look for the crew or launcher. I am not sure if the Shadows ever saw anything, but some patrols did catch up to launch teams and hooked them up. Of course the rockets were more of a nuisance than a real threat.
Is that UAV a Shadow. Thats the UAV the Army was operating out of the area I was in over there, they were pretty sweet. Often when we would call in a rocket launch, from the badguys, a Shadow would go tearing off in that direction to look for the crew or launcher. I am not sure if the Shadows ever saw anything, but some patrols did catch up to launch teams and hooked them up. Of course the rockets were more of a nuisance than a real threat.
09-22-2008, 07:19 PM
#24
RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
http://www.ga-asi.com/news_events/in...?read=1&id=161
I think a lot of issues are occurring on landing.
there are over 25 Predator Drones flying 24/7
I think a lot of issues are occurring on landing.
there are over 25 Predator Drones flying 24/7
09-24-2008, 12:52 PM
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RE: Pentagon Predator's Crashing
ORIGINAL: mithrandir
http://www.ga-asi.com/news_events/in...?read=1&id=161
I think a lot of issues are occurring on landing.
there are over 25 Predator Drones flying 24/7
http://www.ga-asi.com/news_events/in...?read=1&id=161
I think a lot of issues are occurring on landing.
there are over 25 Predator Drones flying 24/7
Tom
