After learning to hover full packs at a time I'm trying to learn to hover side in.

any one of you that has actually sucessfully progressed beyond side in have any additional tips beyond RADDS.

I'm finding ti very hard to deal with the disorientation, I can hold it relatively steady at a 45 deg, but not a full 90.

After "tail in," it helped me to learn "tail out" next, to get the control reversal down pat. That seemed to make the side-in hovering easier for me to handle, so I tackled that last. It's come in handy... if I'm sideways and get into a panic, I'm just as comfortable moving to tail-out as tail-in, to make a recovery. Of course, I'm talking about a CX here, whereby just letting go of the transmitter will allow a recovery. I'm about to get into a CP (Pro) and I doubt many of my skills are going to transfer. Just the one where I scream when it's gonna hit. I've got that down pat, and it'll apply to any heli I end up flying. Neall

Chuckling - great answer.

Nose in on the CP pro is gonna wake you up in a hurry compared to the cx.

Tail-in isn't going to be any easier for me, I suspect. I'll let you know when I'm going to buy my CP Pro.. you can buy E-flite stock and it'll skyrocket after I start buying all the replacement parts I'll be going through.

Yes I have to agree with p01rogue, you see a key difference with the CP helicopters is they like to move in forward flight. this means that letting go of the sticks does squat, the helicopter will not autolevel before it hits the dirt or the nearby wall.

Flying the CP in a hover involves constantly tiny corrections. If your flying carbon fiber blades like I am it involves very rapid constant tiny corrections.

Add on the fact that every time you tilt the swash / turn the rudder too fast you decrease head speed and now you have a constant ballet of axis to correct for a hover.... this is not to say it's not doable, the only reason I'm moving on to side ins and then to nose in is that I can now land precisely in an area the size of a mousepad can fly in idle up and can hover entire packs at a time (18min). Also taken it outside a few times and I can do high speed dives pretty well too.

So far though everything was with a tail in orientation and that's why different orientations is the next step towards forward flight.


Actually if you want a challenge take a box construct a skyscraper (that is a pole roughly 3'-4' high) place a mouse pad on top and try to land on it. The combination of fear of crashing against the side of the box, and high precision required to land on a pinpoint platform keeping in mind that when you cut throttle your heli will most likely slide off the platform is a thrill. The last point will force you to learn how to make recoverable landings aka not fully cut throttle just in case one skid slides off. This is great practice if you're going to land your heli on park benches and on swings (these are fun).

i like the 'skyscraper' idea. sounds like good fun and good training. i'm definitely not up to the park bench/swing level yet though.

A side in tip that helped me quite a bit.
When hovering side in turn your body along with your radio in that general direction. It will feel almost like tail in.
Gradually reduce the amount you turn your body as you get used to the controls.
I like to move back and forth between the 2 sides during filght.

Missileman,
I do that too, turn my body. Just being smart here, can you just picture yourself doing that (turning your body) when executing a pirouette. (LOL).
Dave / Choppersrule

The "turning body" thing reminded me of learning to fly RC gliders in the 80's. There was a field instructor there who would whack us with an TX antenna if we did that. I guess he was hard and fast against that rule. It actually got pretty bad.... there were folks doing tail-out landings (RC gliders) who would actually turn their back to the model, and steer it in for a landing looking over their shoulder. It sounds silly, but it's true. It was entertaining to watch those glider folks do their over the shoulder landings. Neall

By the way, no insult meant to the heli folks who turn side to side. Helis aren't gliders. I've decided to wait to BUY a CP Pro until I can hover the CP in my FSOne sim, and after hours of trying, I can only get a few seconds of hover. That's after lots of experience with a real CX, too. Two different animals, for sure. I'm starting to doubt whether I have the innate reflexes for a collective-pitch machine.

Youd be surprised. It is just like learning to fly anuthing Heli, plane, glider, ect...
At first you struggle but after enough practice you will wonder why you ever had trouble doing it to begin with.
Stick with it and it will come to you

When I buy my CP Pro, maybe I'll cough up the cash for a gross of main blades, along with a few dozen center shafts and spindles. Maybe they'll give me a quantity discount on the replacement parts

ndoren,


let me know if you get the quantity discount!?!?!?!


Unfortuately the only thing I've got after buying plenty of replacement parts at my LHS, is they know my name!

If I ever open a hobby shop, I'm going to call it "Cheers." After all, "You want to go where everyone knows your name."

Put the training gear back on and start over learning to hover nose in - facing the copter, not looking over your shoulder, etc.,

Once you have nose in down, the side in stuff will come easily for you - by using training gear, slowly rotating in a low hover from tail in to nose in, you will transition through side in and it will come to you quickly. I would start with nose in as it is easier to remember that the cyclic is working in reverse to tail in flight, where as side in there is no easy rule of thumb.

Turning with the copter would be o.k, if you only do it a couple of times, but once it is a habit, everyone watching you fly will be watching the "dance" you are doing instead of your flying skills.

Dennis

yep, turning your body is a big help, but gradually reduce that turn, you can also turn your tx abit to that direction. another helpful tip is to think relative to the heli, personally, i never find the 'imagine sitting t it' thingy, however, instead, think about which way it'll move, ie. toward the nose, the tail... etc.

Turning the TX., is also known as "flying the transmitter" and falls into the same league as the turning your body with the aircraft/heli. Learning to fly R/C is all about not having to do these things - if it helps you to learn I guess it is o.k, but don't make them a habit. I once saw a guy at the field who had learned to turn his TX. (fly the transmitter) drop the TX. during a flight when he lost his hold on it. Bad habit.

C-dude is right about thinking relative to the heli - soon you will be able to anticipate which way it will move next without thinking about it.

Dennis

Thanks everyone recently i started getting into the bad habit as radds says of watching the skids. The skids are relatively square to the ground so they tell you what orientation and tilt your helicopter's in.

And I realized something earily on ndoren with CP helicopters you don't usually have enough time to consciously think about every detailed movement unless it's preflight. I tried to explain to a friend trying to learn to slide around that you can't think in ok I need to get it to move forward along z, rotate 5 deg along y and back along z, then a little side along x... this will spell a crash instead try and relax and thing in macro instructions, I know when I'm flying my brain simply says "I want you to go here" and the heli seems to naturally find it's way there, sometimes taking longer due to wind.

And a quick warning to those that are playing with dives, make sure the heli is well enough ahead of you unless your familiar with nose / side ins. In my recent height experiment the wind blew it behind me I lost orientation and I need a new tail box now, somehow I managed to avoid damaged to all other parts but then again I shouldn't be flying in this frigid weather parts are too fragile.

I think the most important thing I learned was quick and aggressive tail rotor control. If I got into trouble hovering side to side or nose in, I quickly kicked the tail towards me to regain the nose-out orientation. Hve fun, and good luck!

Understood. I'm not to that point with my CX. In fact, it's worse. I think, "Ok, bank right." I move the stick. Then, I say, "Oh SH#$%*T , the OTHER right!!" I barely save it at that point. Neall

well a gust of wind blew me to a behind me orientation at approx 3 stories high, I lost orientation had to quickly learn nose in before it hit the ground. Managed to briefly stablize it before it hit so I only need a new gear box.... but guess i still am in the shop until next parts come :-( total cost $4.80

hovering a collective pitch heli is like trying to stand on a basketball. You have to learn to correct before the heli moves. Constant, small inputs. Now that we do 3D with fixed wing, its very much like trying to torque roll an airplane. I think hovering an airplane is easier than hovering a heli, whereas doing a TR seems about the same. Anyway, Lots of folks say side in is more difficult than nose in. The reason being you can't easily see when you need to make a left right cyclic input, so its harder to stay ahead of the heli. This too, gets easier over time. I was helping a guy with nose in today and told him to "sneak up on it" meaning forward flight into the nose in position and then hold it for a few seconds and fly out, continuing the turn. Slowly increase the time you stay in nose in. I know you should be able to do nose in before forward flight, but I think its easier this way. Just slow, gentle circles, pausing at nose in. You need plenty of room to do this, which goes back to the benifits of having plenty of room to learn in. Years ago, once I could hover tail in and side in, I just jumped into forward flight and then got nose in from there. If you're patient enough to get all four upright orientations before forward flight that's best. Orientation is the most important thing in learning helis. I just learned upright and inverted backwards flight this winter. Talk about a brain teaser!