I have the XTREME 180's; have had them for several months now and have replace the brushes once (carbon)

I would get a tendancy for the heli to try to yaw right all the time; and when I started breaking blades doing left turns around the room due to altitude loss; even at nearly full power; I had had enough.

I inspected the brushes, and to my dismay, the suspect motor's brushes wer already worn to 70 percent. I noticed the sparks to more degree than what is what I would call, normal on the brushes, when flying.

I did break them in b4 flying, as well, and solvent flushed the motors before inserting the new brushes.

My commutators look like a phonograph record and are digging in slightly.

What is the main culprit for this? Was I being too overconfident with the heatsinks and all and running the battery packs too close together without cooling? Should I have not lubricated the upper and lower bearings? Should I have not solvent cleaned them?

I lubricated the upper bearings with a copper based grease. I'm wondering if that conductive stuff flew out some of the copper flake to the commutator and caused the excessive arcing and subsequent commutator wear as well as the brushes.

When I replaced the brushes, I solvent sprayed them with flux remover; flushed alot of the old carbon and bits out of it. Maybe some stayed behind and got onto the commutator and scored it.

I know if I replace the brushes again, they will wear faster if they are like break pads.

Some of You race car people may be able to offer tips.

In the mean time, I have the stock motors on and am having a blast! ! No problems, whatsoever. I think they are good for around 150 flights or so.

I might buy a new set of the 180's, break them in, NOT oil them, and be more thoughtful about temperatures.
Should I still flush them out from time to time? I'm afraid that I'm also flushing out the factory lubed bearings.

What to do, what to do. . .
Thank You.

Gary

Gary,

I have never oiled my 180's. After break in I blew them out with compressed air and away I have been flying. Of course I'm still a long way off from putting new brushes in however I do remember reading somewhere on some forum (not our collective) that you shouldn't lube them. So I haven't and have had zero problems with them. I do let them cool between lipos though. On occasion I may have gone back to back bats but usually it's so bloody cold in the garage that the motors aren't even warm to the touch so heat isn't going to be a huge issue.

Gotta love brushed engines.......[&:] I found that not only will the brushes wear, but the comm will also, and the biggie I believe is what happens when the pinion gear wears ? My stock pinion gears are harsh looking...So I just went down, and spent $9.00 a piece on two new stock engines, and holding off for the extremes right now....I figure it's less of a headache to have to toy with the maintenance, and just use the stock ones, which provide more than I need for what the heli's limits are anyhow....If I want more, well I'll get some higher "c" rated batts (20-25c) and the heli will perform better than just as someone with Extremes would on the stock batts or the 15c's guys are using...7 weeks with the 3-Cell, and the Mega Packs, the stock ones did pretty good.....I imagine with pinion gear wearing, a guy could get a pinion puller, and get some new ones, along with brushes, maybe a comm to, since it needs to be done with the brush replacement anyhow, or re-surfaced, but only my opinion, just isn't worth my time to hassle with it...

There's my 2 cents Gary...I'am for sure someday going to try the Extremes though, but once there life has expired, so is the future with them... The CX2----"It Is What It Is....." Jeff

DON'T oil electrics with a conducting grease! Or anything that comes close to electrics...
The copper in the grease you've used might indeed have gotten in the insides and mess things up... Maybe even caused a shortage. And the grease 'keeps' carbonfilings inside the engine, which you don't want either...

Supposedly, the Xtreme 180's don't need (much) lubrication, as their bearings are pre-lubed (which you can only flush out with other grease/lubricants).

Good to know Shufflez, Thanks....Knowing me I'd be "overdoing it" and thinking I should lube them engines, when all in all, I'd be damaging them...Sometimes it's just hard to put the lube down....lol...

Thanks for the info. all.

Jeff, I pulled the motor apart. The commutator is thin as paper where the brushes don't touch, so there is Definately a life expectancy.

I hear the silver brushes are 'softer' (and more powerful) so maybe if I invest in them again; I'll go with that; but I'm starting to think like You, and going full circle on this motor issue; unless they come up with an almost drop in solution for brushless.

I have FULL aluminum right now; including grips and the stock motors has no problem with them. I am currently 9 Grams over stock, and the 15c batts and esp. the 22c bats makes the weight seem not like a big deal to the motors at all.

I think with the weight, (being a little heavy is not such a bad thing, as You mentioned),folding XTREME blades, boom, etc., I'm pretty much ready for outdoor flight again.

I also contribute much greater lift (not to mention quietness) to the XTREME blades; they are AWESOME! ! I swear, if it wasn't for the whiney, piney noise of the motors, all You would hear is the air displacement from the blades. I couldn't believe it. I bet the noise level was dropped by a whole 50%!

They put out a gust of wind, and I'm currently with my set up getting 8.5 minutes on my stock batteries, and almost 9.5 with the 15c. I haven't got my 22's up out of break in yet.

I think the problem I was having all of a sudden with lifting my camera were the motors all along.

I think the more powerful aftermarket batteries is going to make some of the mods that were almost a requirement, not necessary at all, including better blades. I think the batteries are ultimately going to be Our salvation, and a 1 step cure for weight issues.

Gary

Gary are you running the microheli grips or the xtreme grips?
Second question...is there that much of a difference in lift with the xtreme blades vs. stock?

Thanks,
Shane

Stump,

XTREME GRIPS AND XTREME BLADES; period, over and out. No TBE that I couldn't get rid of like when using the MicroHeli. I really had issues with the Microheli grips. And You don't need the microheli lower head to make it work; just your stock e-flite aluminum or plastic (I think) but I know they are pretty much drop in; only took a few minutes, including installing the blades. They seem very well balanced.

NOTEABLY BETTER LIFT ! !

Excellent!!!! I sure was tempted to get the microheli's this weekend. Went to a different LHS and they had the damn things in stock. I'm so glad I didn't take the bait! Well that settles that xtremes are going on! Now I just have to wait for them to come up from down south Too bad express shipping to Canada costs so much. Thanks Gary appreciate the info!

Gary: About the grips and blades: QUIT TEMPTING ME.............!! Lol ...... I'll wait a little while longer, and see what you say in time with them, then I'll ask ya.......Don't worry, I won't forget....I change my mind as much as my underear it seems...............

You know that the carbon dust from the brushes acts as a lube for the brushes.I was working in a electric shop rebuilding electric motors and we didn't clean or turn the comutator unless there was visible damage. The carbon is only bad when it builds up and cause heat issues. But is actualy a lube between the com. and the brush.

Wow Blkk, Thanks for that...I wouldn't have ever known...Man, I've read so much on here, and never had anyone mention that...That's why I'am to addicted, because I learn something new every day, and if I miss a day, I feel like I'am missing out on something LOL..... Thanks, Jeff

Same here.

That is an interesting tidbit of info ya got there, blk.

Just had a great 8.5 minute flight with the MicroHeli Upper Head.

You know, I got back close to 2 min. of flight time just by correcting tracking on the upper blades. It was only off by a little and I did nothing else but correct that. Same battery.

Can't wait for the SMC 22C battery to get here next week.

Well that settles it. I will leave them dry and dirty; goes against everything I like to do; but it makes sense. Thanks for the info ! !

Jeff,

Yea, You know Me too well; how I jump to conclusions; I was going to hold off commenting on all the upgrades I've just done; but Someone asked, and I couldn't help myself.

So far, I really like them. I'll keep You posted.

Gary