highpines

I hope I'm in the right place and I am sorry if I'm Not.........For the last 2 weeks I have been trying to fly a "Hobby Zone" Firebird 2 ST because I have never flown anything before and I am excited to get into the sport. The problem is that the prop keeps falling off (no matter how hard I push it on) and now the moter wont run but the rudders work. this is the second plane I purchesed and I think it's a piece of junk! for $89.00. Even with no wind I have had a few 5 minute flights that I enjoyed , but there has got to be something better out there that is not a waste of money!
I live in Phoenix AZ and obviousely I will need spare parts when I crash so an American manufacturer with parts is needed. I do not want to fly fast! All I want to do is Buzz around and enjoy myself. No tricks, Rolls or anything else, I like to watch the plane just fly over my head. I am a beginner so it needs to be a 2 channel system til I learn the basics.....and I want a single prop, preferebly a pusher (to save prop).
Something that is electric (380 or so) That will turn sharp enough that I don't need a square mile to turm it. I picked up on the remote thing really fast but the "Firebird was'nt very responsive if you know what I mean.
Sorry I'm rambeling but , I think I can do this , but don't need the frustration..............Parts as you know will be needed so how bout alittle help for an old guy wanting to do some "Park Flying" or maybe more......................

Thanx........................Dale

cwrr5

My Feedback: (32)

Dale,
This is indeed the right place.

Try these(all local):
www.arizonamodels.com - address at website

Frank's Hobby House
12008 N 32nd St
Phoenix, AZ

Hobby Bench
4550 E Cactus Rd Ste 194
Phoenix, AZ

They should be able to help you out, without too much "selling". Just tell them exactly what you want and they should be able to help.

There's also Hobbytown USA, Hobby Lobby, etc. If you're willing to drive far enough, the best hobby shop I know of: HobbyBarn ( www.hobbybarn.com )
If all else fails, PM or email me, or even drive down here(99 miles, + or - ), and we'll get you all sorted out. [8D]

BTW - that thing(firebird), in my opinion, is junk. Never seen one fly worth a darn. [:'(]

highpines

Thank You.......... and....Thanks for the support on the "Firebird" and ..yep.... not sure if it should be this frustrating. About $200.00 and I'm still trying. ( I know thats not alot) "Hobby Bench" has two stores close to me in the west valley, but to be honest they were busy and didn't answer my questions or help me with my "beginers" needs.
I guess my questions are...(I flew ultralights 10 years ago) obviously a wider wing span is better? Is a push prop better for less dammage? I can upgrade to a "Firebird Commander" and does it turn sharp and have better charectoristics? Or , suggest a different manufacturer that I can get parts from that is a good first RTF elect plane........There has got to be more than "Hobby Zone" to choose from and still get parts................Thank You.....

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

Are you looking for an RTF, ARF or KIT? If you don't know these terms, I will define them here. If you do, then you can skip down tot the planes. I list RTFs below. If you want ARFs or kits, let me know and I will post them.


An RTF, Ready-To-Fly, typically requires virtually no building. Everything is
built. You attach the wing and perhaps the tail and you are done. Typical
investment of time is 15 minutes to 2 hours. The Aerobird Challenger is a
good example of an RTF plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=HBZ3500
RTFs ALWAYS include an installed radio system an may also inclued the battery
and charger.

ARF vs kit. How are they different? Depends on your definition.

ARFs and kits always require you to buy and install the electroncis. However
some of the makers, such as Mountain Models and GWS, offer select packages
that include the kit and the electronics. You still have to assemble/build,
but all the guess work is taken out of what electronics to buy. This makes it
very easy for the first time builder to get it right. The radio itself is
usually not included in these "complete packages"

Most wood KITS are a box of sticks and sheet parts that are cut from larger
sheets. You glue them together to form the structure then you cover it with
heat shrink film, some other covering, or paint the finished structure. Build
time could run 10-30 hours including gluing, covering and fitting out with the
electronics. The Mountaion Models Switchback would be an example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/switchback.php

As an example, Mountain Models wood kits, are typically very complete and
often include the motor, the hardware and the covering material. For some
people, kit building is as much or more fun than flying the planes. If you
want to tackle your first wood kit, Mountain kits have an outstanding
reputation for ease and completeness. This thread talks about their planes:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295225

Wood ARFs are typically kits that are already built and covered into major
structures such as fuselage, wings, tail, etc. Here you are doing final
assembly. The Ascent is a good example.
http://www.horizonhobby.com/Shop/ByC...ProdID=EFL1075
Typical build time is in the 3-10 hour range. Much less time and
much less skill is required. Then you install the electronics.
Here are some examples from Great Planes:

All foam kits, in my opinion, are more similar to ARFs than they are to wood
kits. They typically consist of large molded pieces that glue or friction fit
together. typical is 3-10 hours to complete. The Graupner Tipsey is a good
example.
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tipsy.htm
Some foam kits call for covering but the Tipsy, for example, does not.
When required, covering can often be done with tape which can be very easy for
the new
builder. So I consider most foam kits to be more ARF than kit. Multiplex and
GWS kits fall into this kit/ARF class and are usually very complete. As a
first step from an RTF, these can be very good choices.

Foam/wood kits are likely to require some stick and sheet assembly, but
typically much less work than an all wood kit. The Mountian Models
SmoothE is a good example.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
The fuselage is wood but the wing is foam. Very easy for the first time
builder to be successful.

There are many other brands that provide very high quality products. I use
these companies as examples because I often recommend their planes.


SPACE

How much space do you have for flying? If you have totally clear space of at
least 600'X600', about 9 square acres, approx 6 square football/soccer fields,
then I
can recommend one class of plane. Call this class 1 - CL1

If your space is more like 200X200 (one square acre) then a different plane is
in order. Call this class 2 - CL2

If it is less than that, different again. This we will call this class 3 -
CL3

These are my own designations and are based on my subjective ranking of the
space a new flyer should have when learning on his own. An experienced flyer
can fly faster planes in smaller spaces, but a new flyer wants to have more
space so you are not in a constant state of panic trying to turn. Now, you
can get above the edges of the field and expand your space, but if you lose
control, you drop in woods, on top of kids or smash someone's
windshield. If that windshield is in a car is traveling down a road when you
hit the windshield, you could cause an accident or worse.

So much for space. You get the idea.

I don't recommend pretty planes as first planes. They are too easy to break,
too hard to fix and look bad in short order. So you won't see any especially
pretty or true scale planes. Make one of those your second or third plane. I
also don't recommend two channel R/T electrics, so you won't find any on the
list. If you want one of these, I would suggest the Firebird series from
HobbyZone. They can be very easy to fly and can be a lot of fun, but they can
also be very easy to lose. You should plane to fly them in dead calm air when
you are first starting.

I feel a high wing three channel R/E/T plane is your best choice for a first
plane. R/E/T will require a little more learning than the two channel R/E
planes but is a better choice as a first plane, in my opinion. These use the
same control inputs as more advanced planes and can be flown in more wind once
you have mastered them in calm conditions.

Below I list electric planes for beginners. Some come ready to fly, some are
almost ready to fly (add your own radio gear) and some are kits. All of them
are electric. If you are looking for your first plane, you should find
something here to peak your interest.

If you are totally new to RC Flying, these articles may be helpful.


RC Planes Are not like RC Cars
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=17

Stall
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31

Launch into the wind
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43

Parts of the plane and how they work
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=54

The RC Pilots Cockpit
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=59

Flying the Plane
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=64

New Electric Flyer FAQs
http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/faq/a105.shtml

Six Keys to Success for new e-flyers
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208


READY TO FLY STARTER PLANES - Electric Parkflyers
No building - they practically fly right out of the box
These also glide well so you can thermal soar
with them under the right conditions.


Slow-V from Parkzone - $140 - Space CL2/3
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. This is the best choice for people
who only have a small space to fly or who have an indoor place to fly, such as
a gym or
similar space.
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=PKZ1300
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2089493
Video
http://users.cwnet.com/dhsc19/Slo_V_Aerobatics.wmv
Night fly module on a Slo-V
http://rc-galaxy.com/messageboard/mb...ViewMsg&num=-8


T-Hawk - RTF - Excellent Value - $170 - space CL1
Comes with extra wing, tail and battery
Flies well and stands up to hard landings
Can be flown on 27 MHz or 72 MHz
http://www.toytx.com/thawk3chrtf.html
T-Hawk - Without Radio - add your radio and receiver
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/wittran.html
T-Hawk Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=THawk
Videos
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawkvideos.html


Easy Star - RTF - $180 - Space CL1
Believe this goes easily back in the box to keep in the car
Super tough foam. Comes with 72 MHz radio in the US.
Good parkflyer and a good glider
Radio in RTF package can be used to fly other planes
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Discussion Thread on Easy Star
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258656
Video - touch and gos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv
Video - Testing the plane's behavior
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv


Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric - $150 - Space CL1
Great keep in the car plane - take off the wing and it goes back in the box!
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I have over 350 flights on my Aerobirds. I
also thermal
and slope soar this plane. Flies well and stands up to hard landings. Their
add on fun accessories for night flying, air to air combat and drop module add
to the fun!
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=HBZ3500
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Disco...ID=1289#Page01
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html

highpines

Thanks Ed....As A matter of fact I have been researching another post on beginner issues that you replied to. I did alot of checking on the planes you mentioned found out if they were available locally with lots of parts and ended up purchasing the "SLO-V" from ParkZone. In my thread I mentioned I bought a "Firebird 2ST and for a small 2 channel plane its O.K and I can fly it in no wind quite well but as you know it takes alot of room to fly and it seems to be more of a "Toy PLane" than the Slo-V.
Anyway, I took my time building the V and everything went together well and I have spent the last 3 or 4 day's just reading up on it in that long "Slo-V" thread you posted. Because I did crash the "Firebird" at first for most of the reasons you mention I am learning patience not wanting to do the same to this larger plane. Oh, the review and video Greg Covey did was also excellent and good info. I also read posts on getting the V trimed for flight and the position of the wing people prefer.
Well, I took the V out yeasterday and yes it takes off in a short distance from ground but even after adjusting the trim on the rudders it would take off nice and easy then climb straight up and then stall (maybe 10 feet altitude) No wind. People on this forum said to adjust the control surfaces of the tail just slightly above even....maybe this was my problem, not sure. The plane survived everything fine which I'm glad for. The tiny caps that hold the wheels on kept comming off and I would lose a wheel and I was wondering if I could put alittle dab of silicone in the cap to help hold it on?................Also, this is my first 3 channel plane and was wondering....If it's trimed correctly do I need to use the elevater for basic flight in a large area? I know a little flair when landing is good. (I flew ultralights about 6 years ago).....Can't I use the throttle for altitude and climb rate untile I get used to it?
I know these issueus are things I need to work out and It's hard for you to explain on this forum and I do apreciate the GREAT info you provide here.

I think my best bet is to get some hands on instruction.....I live in Phoenix AZ and there are some clubs here, but they are mostly for gas and nitro it seems and they want $100 to join (not really a problem) but hey, I just want to be an electric big park flyer thats all. If you have any contacts here in the Phoenix area or know someone that could help me out one on one that would be great.

Thanks again................................Dale

INeedHelp

My Feedback: (1)

Which part of Phoenix are you in?

Mesa is a great area to learn, lots of helpful people out here.

highpines

Hey........Beleive it or not..........103rd Ave and Thunderbird... But ya know in order not to destroy my plane I would make the trip. I'm right by the 101 loop out here and can take it to the 10 East (pretty much all freeway to Mesa) Can you give me an idea where you fly? PM me if you want................Thanx.................Dale

INeedHelp

My Feedback: (1)

When you available, we fly Wed. mornings, Thurs. afternoons, and Sunday afternoons.

highpines

INeedHelp.........Thanks , This weekend I have people in from vegas, but Next sunday will work as far as I can tell. Let me know and I'll give you my#.

aeajr

My Feedback: (2)

What you describe is a stall.

Only three things can cause a stall and you can fix all of them.

You cause it, by pulling the elevator up too much. Plane tries to climb, loses too much speed and stalls.

Stall
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31


You have the CG set too far back - If you are not pulling the elevator when it tries to climb and stalls, then this could be it. RTFM

You have too much incidence on the tail. That is the front of the tail is too low/or the back is too high. This is like having up elevator in all the time. RTFM



So, what do you do?

1) read the article, then read the manual again.

2) When you go to climb, use only a tiny bit of elevator until you learn to avoid stalling. If the planes speed looks like it is dropping, push to level it back out and let it pick up speed.

3) When you take off, let the plane build up more speed and use as little up elevator as possible. Climb out at a less severe angle and make sure you take off into the wind. Climb into the wind as much as possible. If the plane starts to slow down, let off on the elevator. I actually give it a moment of down if I see a stall coming. This gets the wings level and lets it pick up speed.

4) If you do #1 and it is still stalling, and you are following #2 and it is still stalling, and you have tried #3 and it is still stalling, then you go to the manual and recheck the CG. Then you look for adjustments on the angle of the tail.

90% of all stalls are cause by the pilot applying too much up elevator. You would not be the first and you won't be the last.

All planes, regardless of power and design, can be stalled by the pilot. Sometime it is done intentionally, especially in aerobatics.