I just order a great plane firebat this week , (was ship from tower hobbies thursday I will receve it in 2 week or more) I was looking for any comment of it on the web when I see your web site ,,, looooool 25% of firebat arent flying ,,, everybody crash it or what ??? lol thats ridculous, what I shoud do try it , or reship it to tower hobbies , and trying to find another one, (which did you recommend , I need a complete kit (plane, motor, esc, baterie,maybe mixer, charger...) , in the $100 range)

and whats the problem whit this plane, you need a 2000pounds catapult to make it fly? thanks , mat

There have been many people try to make a Firebat fly. Apparently only a few have succeded.

Everyone does say that you need to buy the stock kit and not the deluxe version. What you get in the deluxe version will not fly the plane.

For around $100 bucks, a Zagi 400X is hard to beat. I know it's slightly more expensive ($125 to $140 depends on where you find them), but it will fly well on its stock setup. Keep in mind this price also includes a battery. It will modify well when you want it to. Think brushless and cobalt here.
If you are already a accomplished flyer then get the Zagi Razor. Not as expensive as the 400X and has better performance on the stock setup (faster). Price is around $120 from Tower, Check out Quantum Models price before you buy.

The Electrijet also flies well, but is a parkflyer and has parkflyer performance. Don't expect loops from level flight! Comes with everything, but radio, servos, battery, and charger. Can be found for about $120. Shop around.

IMHO you would do well to return the Firebat unless you are interested in some "test of wills" contest between you and the plane. The people I've heard of who have finally gotten one to fly have done so on their second or third Firebat.

Good Luck!

:stupid: loool I dont want to buy it 3 time,,, sory
I try the razor . Its a prety cool plane, but I didnt have a servo mixer , and I was curious about a jet pucher type plane , , DId that just the electronic that come with the plane who are bad, because I was buing this plane for it , a built many other plane, and I was thinking , to switch electronic , plane to plane,,,

did the plane are just to eavy? or the power is the prob?

that mad a long time that I got to rc thing ,,, I check some year ago for brushless , it was like 150/200 $ the f%% motor, I live in quebec, , that make the stupid price double... what is it now?

im a kind of super persistent guy I think that I will try with the deluxe version,,, I read some of your text, its seem to be to eavy and powerless , lol im in big **** . I will buy 2 new micro servo, and maybe the motor that you will tell me to.
haaaaa stupid company , I will check , did you tel me that its totaly hopeless??? , I will try to check whit great plane to see what they say ...

ok I search a acrobatic plane like , not wing, in your opinion what woukld be the best plane ???

The electronics which come with the Firebat are OK quality wise, they are just not right for what it will take to fly the plane. From what I understand you are given an ESC which will only take 10 amps. You really need one which will take 20 amps. Castle Creations has a great 20 amp ESC which is lighter than the Great Planes 20 amp ESC.

A mixer can be had from Wattage. Doesn't add that much weight.

The problem with the Firebat seems to be power and small wing area. And from what I hear you must keep the speed up and be careful with the cannard setup. If you don't, it will stall, then crash. The problem with the wing area is that by the time you have gotten a power system on it where it will fly, you are too heavy for the wing area. Thus you have a flying brick.

Brushless motors with ESC's run about $150 - $200 dollars U.S. now (this cost is for the standard direct drive speed 400 replacement). Check out the line of Mega Motor Brushless Drives. The motor itself is only about $75 (again speed 400 replacement). Then you add your ESC cost. You must use a brushless ESC with a brushless motor.

I'll have to do some searches to let you know about motor setups for the Firebat which are working.

Great Planes will probably tell you it will fly with their system. Be forwarned, others have tried that route and failed. May be you will have better luck. Also keep in mind Great Planes also says the Fundango will perform with the speed 400 system they recommend. It won't. It can be made to fly well, it just won't do it on the speed 400 system they recommend.

A good aerobatic plane would be the Switchback. A bigger, but definetly a winner, would also be the E3D.

A lot of people are also enjoying the Crazy Max.

Good Luck.

My Firebat was a blast to fly! Yes, I read the previous thread when a Google search for spare parts turned it up. But I think I know what the problem may be, why the plane is not reliable. The final position of the elevons (not the canards) is not well documented in the instructions. Read on...
I am a novice flyer with two Pico sticks and a Megatech Merlin showing some wear and tear. I built the Firebat Deluxe as specified except that I used foam friendly CA and very little epoxy. I used two mini-servos, Feather receiver, supplied motor (no flux ring), suppied ESC and battery. Moved battery way forward to balance properly. I 'eyeballed' the elevons to be level with the top and bottom wing surfaces.
First flight was a disaster: launched from several rows up the stadium seats it quickly dove to the ground. Easy repair. This time I set the inboard trailing edge of elevon to be even with the edge it was cut from on the fuselage, even though this appeared to give 'up' elevon.
Second flight was a blast as it tore across the soccer field, easily climbing to75-100ft, did amazingly fast and axial rolls before I overcontrolled it at 25ft and drove it into the sod! Pilot error. Video available for skeptics.
The only thing I changed was the elevons (which they call ailerons)! I suspect the previously mentioned problems may be due to not having the slight 'up' in the elevons, forcing the canard to compensate with little success.
If I can get replacement fuselage I will rebuild, otherwise I may cut nose off, skip the canard and fly as a pusher delta.

Paul

MT-Tank,

Glad you were successful. Keep us posted on the new/repaired firebat.

Where are you flying (what type of field or gym?)?

they say that its because many people run the plane whit the prop backward lol

thanks tank, you make me hope that this plane could fly!
did you can send my the video or if anyone have a video of it, svp

I dont have so many cash for that Im in the DH thing and I need to find 2000$ US more , to buy my next bike...

did I can put a gearbox on the actual 400 motor, to fix the prob, or did the great plane s 600 (w or w/o geardrive) will do the job right , just 62.99, more in my price ...



... they said that the esc is an 10-20Amp ESC w/BEC , did it will take the s 600 , and did I can put a bigger prop too

A Speed 600 can pull well over 20 amps with the certain prop/battery combinations. It all depends on what you set up.

You can download Motocalc for a free 30 day trial and play with it to see what the amp draw will be with various batteries, gearbox, motors, esc's, and props.

www.motocalc.com

Motocalc will allow you to test out various senarios without "smoking" components.

You will have to input data from your height above sealevel, airframe, motor, gearbox, battery, prop, and esc. The program then does the work for you. Initially it appears complicated, but after you play with it a little, it gets much easier.

The program is not exact (none of these programs are), but it will get you close and it will save you some components.

Many components are already loaded in the program. What is not loaded in you can add by knowing the information which the program is requesting. Most manufacturers websites have this information available.

Just my 2 cents. Motocalc is free for 30 days. Might as well play with it.

thanks

To all of you with Firebat fever. I just finish building one and I find few faults. First I reinforced the ailerons on top with fine fiberglass because I find them very flexible. I’m going to try to fly it with 8 cells 600MA and a speed 400-6volt motor instead of the original 7.2V, I checked the prop speed with a tach and I find that the 6V turn faster at 12000 rpm. Now comes the best part: the CG. Here, I bet that everybody makes a mistake. Did you gays check it with a CG checker? I guess not, because I could not get the CG where suppose be. So, instead of adding weigh to the front, I split the battery pack: 6 cells right after the servo for the ailerons and the other 2 in the front of the nose. Now here I had to dig out some foam until the 2 batteries fit. Later I may send some pictures of what I did. For now I wait for some calm days to fly it. I also I have a different set up for using a 400BB and that require a different approch. See you later.

Hello to everybody who made so many bad comments about the FIREBAT. Mostly to RJinvestr, Kanooker, and couple more guys! Yesterday, on my post I said that today I will fly my Firebat…and it flew so WONDERFULL that I could not believe my eyes. All the guys that have said, here, are absolutely WRONG. The plane FLYS, and flies TOOO GOOOD. I did nothing special. And to AnnMarie Cross… you are absolutely RIGHT! Matter of fact my came even lighter at 21oz.!!! My is the kit version, and I believe that the deluxe version is the same thing. The only thing that I change was the motor, I put a 400 6Volt with 8/cells 600MA getting 12500 RPM, (faster than the 7.2V). Next time I will try that one. Used 2 mini Hitec servos, and to get the right CG, as per book, without adding any weight, I split the battery pack: 6 cells going right after the aileron servo, standing up, (where the battery suppose go), the other two… right into the nose cavity. (If the 8 cells are going were suppose go, the plane will be TAIL HEAVY). I did some carving of foam in the nose section, (not easy after has been assembled but if this was done before gluing the two halves, was easier) to try to fit them, and then I connect this two cells with two wires to the 6 cells in the back. The CG came smack at 4-1/2”. My RX is a GWS – GWR4P that I also located in the front, right after the 2 cells, in the same cavity. I used a Great Plane ESC –C30 and a 7x4 Master Airscrew regular prop. Maybe next time I will try with some 1100MA and redo the CG. When I lunched the plane, it flew right off my right hand… 45 degree, up and away, NO TRIMMING! Watch the incidence of the canard: 0 degreed with the wing! I set the throws according to the book, later flies; I set only the ailerons to 8m/m instead: I did loops, few rolls, and a landing with the prop “dead stick” straight like an arrow, with a glide seeing to believe and going for over 100 ft. At my field I heard a roar of applause from all my fellows, that it is still stock in my ears. If I can do it, later I may post some pictures of my setup and few more suggestions. Somebody at the field got it on professional video. FIREBAT… I LOVE YOU!!!! Any COMMENT? Aldo. PS: I thing all this will work also for the deluxe version! Watch for the CG!!! And don’t go crazy thinking wild acrobatic. Just have FUN!

I'm glad you got it too work. And I would love to see pictures of your setup.

If I were you, a spd 300-400 with a 1.8:1 or up to a 2.5:1 gearbox and a 8x6 or 9x6 folding prop or a minimum direct drive motor of the size 480 is the way to go. I was flying the firebat before it was normaly available on US shores, the UK version called the Foxbat. It was having problems in the UK long before it got here. Although I am one of the first to get it to fly electrically with no crash on the first flight here in the US, it's marginal on direct drive other than a size 10 or 20 brushless, but those are fairly expensive. The 49.00 kit is the way to go, get a greaplanes C-20 esc and a gearbox for the motor or a direct 480. Tape the entire plane together first to get an idea of where everything will need to be placed. Replace the wood spars they give you with carbon rods, if you find hollow rods, piano wire that slides into the rod can be used to help with CG, I may try a steel rod in my next glow version. If weight needs to be added still, make use of mechanical advantage and place the weight as far forward as possible to ensure less weight. Then create a cavity in that same place and install the weight before you join the fuse halves, this hides the weight for a cleaner looking model. They claim there's no problem with the kit, yet they ask you to modify the airframe from how it was originally intended to be assembled by removing foam and maybe switching around servo's for battery placement. If and when you get yours flying they do fly awesome.
Good luck

To SRA Foam Flyer, as you can see from my post, I flew the plane STOCK (the kit) and it flew WONDERFUL right off my hand at almost 45 degree UP. 8/cells, 600MA did just gooood, not HOT after fly and so the motor (the 6V). I din't add ANY weight at all, like I said, I split the 8/cell battery pack, 6 right after the aileron servo and 2 cell up in front after I dig lot of foam in front of the canard. I keep repeating this because the plane is GOOD, I don't care what ANYBODY also said! Aldo

hey
how , we supose to break the new motor ?
whit an hammer ???













just joking , I know what thats mean but how I can do it best ?

Check out

http://www.yourzagi.com/motors.htm

for information on how to break in motors. The site is mainly for flying wings, but there is a lot of good information on the site which partains to all electric flight. Well worth your time to check it out.

The idea behind breaking in motors is to shape the brushes for maximum contact with the commutator and minimize arcing. Two plain old alkaline D flashlight cells in a Radio Shack battery holder is normally adequate for the job. Run the motor for about 15 minutes or so, in the direction it will be running in the airplane. There are all kinds of breakin methods, but this one does just fine.

Your comment is false. I built the deluxe version as per instructions with the supplied gear and full sized servos. It flies great. I even did a roll first flight.

yaeh,

I got firebat about 1 month ago. It is really stabile and good plane, but the bundled engine is very close to nothing. I installed Mega 16/15/3 brushless with 10 cell nicad battery (zagi battery with 2 additional cells) and 5x3 3-blade prop and ... oh boy ! that plane was screaming Believe me, it is fast!!!!
It was kind expensive though, ~$200 for the engine+esc only, but well worth it. I propose that you try that
Right now, I installed that engine into Slinger (from great planes) and I just love it. The manufacturer says that with standart engine, it can go up to 65mph and with mega-engine I fly circles around standard one. Just remember to add carbon fiber support to wings ... others you'll need your trash bag

The only problem is that when you fly too fast (in the dive or horizontal flight with full throttle), you will loose the control of the plane as the ailerons won't respond anymore due to the too fast airflow, if yoy allow that term.

My next thing is to put two of the megas into a "http://www.nesail-online.com/detail.php?productID=226" and see how fast it really goes.

I love glow engines, but for park flyint, these toys are nice

just my $0.02

I've gotten quite embroiled in Firebat arguments over the years. From what I've gathered, the Firebat WILL fly on the stock motor, but only if the motor is one of the stronger ones off the line, and you get everything ABSOLUTELY PERFECT when you build the plane. There is no room for error; get the CG 1/4" off in either direction and the plane will fly as if it is underpowered. Get the weight 1/2 oz too heavy, and the plane will fly as if it is underpowered. It's not underpowered, the plane is simply flying in a very draggy attitude.

Speed 400 can motors are just not known for consistency. There are strong ones, average ones, and ones that don't work worth a crap right out of the box. Problem is, they're not manufactured to exacting tolerances, and not manufactured for airplane use. They're made by the millions for toys, appliances, etc where they're not pushed nearly as hard.

The best advice for a Firebat is to get the basic kit, then either go for lightweight with a GWS EPS350C drive and smaller batteries, or go with something better than a Speed 400, be it a 480, or a brushless motor.

The deluxe version of the Firebat is an absolute joke. I crashed it 6 times before it finally crashed for good. Not enough power. I put the receiver in the front to get the cg correct without added weight. I also tried a gearbox with three different ratios and a 9/5 prop. Roger Clemons couldn't throw it fast enough to make it fly. Great planes should be ashamed to have put this on the market.
Buy anything else but the Firebat.

I still love them, but I got a little burned out after, sheesh maybe 20 of them. Looks like they are on closeout, I'll have to pick a few more up before they go bye bye. I think the GWS 370 and 350 geared models ended up being my favorite set-up. I got the flight weight down to 12.5 ounces with a 3S lipo, just gotta be really careful with the throttle. They get to be very resilient at that weight. Looks so weird at almost 0 ground speed floating around, then hit the elevator and throttle and shoot straight up. In wind it's very easy to achieve 0 ground speed, even get pushed backward.

I don't know what everybody is talking about I'm 15 and I bought the FireBat Deluxe Edition from towerhobbies when I received it I put it together and decided to go fly it. I got out there threw it and I could not get it up eventually I got it up aways but on a turn something happened and it went straight in. I took it home fixed it went on google to see what happened what I realized is I had the prop backwards. Put it on and it flew like a dream nothing special stock motor stock battery everything stock from deluxe kit.

Hi I also ordered the firebat ! Despite all the comments about it i still want to give it a try . I'm going to use a hitec 555 receiver and 2 micro-servos to lighten it .
I'm also going to use the GP slinger battery its 1800 mah 9.6v but i don't know the cell size (hope it fit's)
I will add some pictures of it's flight once it's up and running

This is the version of the firebat you want!!!
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217499