phobbies

Yes the word is out FMA is, once again, sticking it to the LHS!!!

They feel that the local hobby shop is not needed in our industry so they are selling direct to the customer and leaving the LHS with product that they will loose money if they sell it at their web prices. Yes I am ranting but enough is enough!! I thought that being on board with Horizon Hobby would change their policies, but NO. Their are other products that we can sell in our stores and those companies are willing to let us make a profit at it. People that know me and my shop can tell that I am a straight shooter and an asset to the hobby industry. I hope that other shops will follow suite and lash out at FMA as I have done.

Fred Marks I hope you are happy and I also hope this is the beginning of the end for FMA!!


Tom McCoy
Owner

Performance Hobbies
Webster, N.Y.

twmoody

I know how you feel. I was in the TV repair business about 40 years ago and ALL of the distributors were selling to the public at the same prices they would sell to us. It made me decide to get out of the business.

I have never bought anything from FMA and doubt I ever will now that I see they have no ethics at all. If they will do that to their dealers they could never be trusted to take care of there customers either.

Tom Moody

Gary Hoorn

I feel fortunate that my LHS GPA Hobbies in Crofton Maryland tries hard to meet the demands of the public. I would much rather drop in and purchase something and shoot the breeze than order online.
Gary

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

Here is a statement from FMA concerning their latest move to go 100% direct. Hobby shops will no longer be able to obtain FMA products:

http://www.fmadirect.com/lipoMessage.htm

phobbies

Jake,
Thats from months ago...FMA could no longer buy LIPO packs so they stopped selling them. This latest move coincides with the letting go of several of their people ,along with the only one that was any good at FMA (many of you know who he is). I feel that with this latest move FMA will slowly fade out of the R/C market.

TMC

Matt Kirsch

My Feedback: (21)

Hi Tom,

This is Matt, president of the RCCR, not Jake.

Looks like I grabbed the wrong link, and now I can't seem to find any reference to FMA's statement on their decision to go direct...

Really, it's too bad that it's had to come to this. FMA had some of the most revolutionary products on the market, and a real winner on their hands with the Cellpro system.

phobbies

Sorry Matt,
I should read more first.

The only things they had were the Cell-Pro, Co-Pilot and the M5.....the rest is, well cheap Chinese crap. As for the Cell-Pro there are others out there now and yes we will soon have them, Co-Pilot....everyone is on the sims now.....M5 for ele's........Spektrum. People have told me that it might be a getting out of R/C instead of a deal direct sale.

TMC

marmitas

My Feedback: (1)

This subject has nothing to do with the quality of the FMA products. The issue here is a short sighted business model that has led to the demise of companies of all sizes. This idiotic model follows this logic:
Selling through a dealer[ul][*] It costs $10[*] Sell it to the dealer for $12[*] The dealer sells it to the user for $14[*] Manufacturer makes $2[*] Dealer makes $2[/ul]
Selling direct[ul][*]It costs $10[*]Sell to the user for $13[*]The manufacturer makes one more $1 and the user saves $1
[/ul]
That will work for a short while but the simple minded businessman that employs this model is missing several hard facts.
Now he has to carry ALL the inventory (considering cost of capital, management system, floor space, additional insurance, etc. that cost averages 22% per year)
He has to pay the credit card fees.
The previous 2 are measurable costs. But there are more, the hobby shop owner will push competitive products causing a loss in sales volume for the manufacturer. One hundred per cent of the product support function falls in the lap of the manufacturer and that is not inexpensive as products become more and more complex. And above all the growth of the market depends greatly on the existence of the local hobby shop. Without the local promotion, personal advice, and local availability provided by the local hobby shop the hobby does not grow. As a result, the manufacturers market shrinks to nothing.
Large companies in this industry have learned the lesson. Horizon saw it first and designed programs to work hand in hand with the dealers. When the dealers could not compete with Tower's prices, Futaba and other Great Planes/Hobbico products lost market to JR and Hangar 9. The executives at Great Planes reacted to the issue and instead of stabbing the hobby shop owner they extended a hand and fixed the problem.
I don't agree with those that wish the end of FMA. As an avid modeler I want more companies to succeed because that means that we, the users of the products, will have more and better options.

Doc Austin

Let's see. I mail order a Mini Ultra Stick and it costs the same thing as it does at my Local Hobby shop, so all I've saved is the $7.00 in sales tax. But wait...........shipping ate that up, didn't it?

So, my Mini arrives and UPS has smashed it to bits, so now I have to ship it back, at my cost, of course. Then I have to wait for Horizon to inspect it and send another one out.

Or, I can do it the easy way. I can go to my LHS, inspect the plane carefully, pay the same price and fly it the same day.

What's the point of buying direct or buying mail order? If I save a buck here or there, is that going to help me when my LHS closes, and I have to wait a week for my mail order place to send me a pair of clevices?

For me, buying anywhere but my LHS is penny wise, pound foolish.

IMHO, of course.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Just wait till you gotta start paying hazmat coverage to mail-order fuel. Stopping in the LHS is quite easy with that in mind.

billz

Guys,

I agree with the sentiment of this thread - I would much rather buy from the local Hobby Store, who sells items at the same price as I can get them online at Horizon Hobby (factoring no sales tax and extra cost of shipping) and where I can also see the product, made sure parts worked, get expert advice, no hassle exchanges, etc.

My problem is similar but from a different angle. My LHS recently closed their store and now ONLY sell through their web site. They say they were getting more business from their web site than from the store. I don't fault their business decision, it is just too bad that the "Walmart" mentaility (do whatever you can to provide the lowest possible price, period) is so pervausive in our culture that I fear this trend will eventually hit most LHS.

Bill Z.

Yak18

My Feedback: (11)

FMA doesn't give a hoot about YOUR business...only theirs, and I don't blame them.

I don't have an LHS. Most modelers in America don't have an LHS. I have to buy online or quit the hobby. Unfortunately for small local business, online shopping is the future of marketing. It's just too convienient to make a few clicks and then wait for the UPS truck which gets it to my door in 3 days, sometimes 2. Most of the time, I pay no sales tax or even shipping! FMA is just being progressive and looking toward the future. They are maximizing their profits because I'm sure they could care less about making sure you make money.

I know that these are harsh words, but in business the only rules are #1 Make the most money you can, and #2 Make sure you keep all the profits for yourself. The customers make you money, middlemen don't. FMA understands this fact and that is why they are cutting you out. Ask yourself, what am I providing to FMA that their website doesn't?

If you find yourself selling a product that is easily shipped, you need to start looking into a business that cannot be provided online (food, concrete, oil changes, child care etc.) or start a mail-order business of your own.

Yak

marmitas

My Feedback: (1)

Your premise is correct ONLY for those that purchase hobby items as a commodity and have the experience to use them. I could be one of the commodity buyers because I have practiced the hobby for 52 years. However, the growth of the market depends on the newcomers, and, newcomers need handholding that cannot be provided on-line.
FMA's move is neither progressive nor cares about the future. FMA probably has a cash-flow problem and is trying to fix it laying off support personnel and selling direct. With less support people and without the support provided by the LHS they are headed for trouble. I hope I am wrong because I like some of their products.
If you think that the only concern of a business is the bottom line think again. The top line is critical to the long term survival of any business. A recent Fortune magazine article listed a large number of companies that had continuously increased profits by reducing costs and no increase in the top line. The average drop of their market share was 62% and the average stock drop was 71%. Five of those companies ware acquired by competitors and two of them no longer exist.

Drunkskunk

You know, I tip my waiters. it means the meal costs 15% to 20% more, but I think its worth it for the service.

I shop at my LHS, sure, I pay a 10% to 15% markup compared to what I could get it for bargen hunting online, but I think it's worth it for the service.

Right now I have a plane build on hold because some part I could only get from an online store is being "processed" Who knows what that realy means, or when it will go through. If my LHS could have gotten the part, I would atleast be able to harrase them untill I had some idea when it would arive.

I have no oppinion on FMA. They have no product I would spend money on. Generaly, if it's a Horizon affiliate, my LHS is willing to add whatever to their weekly order.

phobbies

The LHS is still the place where people can touch and see your product. They need their product on our shelfs. Most people in our industry feel if the LHS dosent stock it or sell it it must not be that good. There are 100's of great hobby products that come and go because there is no exposure. If you know the retail/wholesale side of our industry (after reading your post it shows that you dont) you would know that many manufactures would love to have their products in the LHS. I have been in this hobby from the late 70's and the change has been towards the LHS and the service they provide.

I am sorry that you and others dont have a shop near you, but it is people like yourself, by buying everything mail-order, that may have caused their demise in the first place. It is like R/C car racing, if you buy everything mail-order and not at track where you race your car you may save a few $$ but when they close (as many have done) where will you race your car then?

Tom

Yak18

My Feedback: (11)

I agree with everything you all have said since I posted. I do know a thing or two about the hobby business though. I worked at an LHS for 6 years, a wholesale hobby distributor for 2 years, and even ran my own LHS for 6.5 years until I was run out of business by another LHS who sold product below cost to get rid of me.

I love LHS', I would love to have one a block from my house. I'd love to see and hold products in my hand before I buy them. They are important, very important to bring in newcomers but they are going to all die out except in the largest of cities. It takes hundreds of customers to support a LHS and most that survive are selling more non-R/C product than R/C product. Art supplies, plastic kits, yarn etc. The people who support LHS's are the moms who bring in their kids to buy them something to do on the weekend so they won't drive mom nuts. The profit margin on R/C items is laughable. Again, I think I'm just stating facts here. FMA may not be seeing the big picture, or they see it and don't care. If you want somebody to blame for killing the LHS look no further than Tower Hobby and Horizon who have bought up small R/C companies at record numbers and have edged out the competition quicker than Walmart. If you want to support your LHS, stop buying anything AT YOUR LHS that comes from TH or Horizon...but wait they are same people that supply your LHS!!! What a quandary?

Unfortunately, big business wins again...but that is the essence of capitalism.

Yak

jstrattwilson

Unfortunately not EVERY LHS is so great to deal with. The guys at one of the shops here will sell you whatever they have on the shelf, and feed you a line of BS to get it out the door. They do it with attitude too. If you walk in and don't buy what they suggest, they get angry and won't help you with advice. All said, I have spent about $600 there in the last year, but that's not remembered when they are trying to sell you their $70.00 Picco Z 2 Channel helicopter that you can get at a mall kiosk for $30.00. When you point it out to them, they do the same whining about supplying you with fuel and parts. Give me a break. I WILL PAY 10% or 15% more, but I won't be raped because of pure greed.

Purchasing from the LHS is a personal decision and should be driven by that "service" that you get. If that "service" is there in concept, but not reality, don't let anyone push guilt on you for buying from the on-line guys.

propbuster

My Feedback: (1)

Well, If my LHS stocked more of the stuff I needed, I would shop there more often! Unfortunatley, they mostly cater just to the ARF electric crowd. I can buy a replacement anything for a parkzone whatever but when I need a engine mount for a .60 size engine or some 1/2a glow fuel, I'm out of luck. []

iflyrc1012

My Feedback: (6)

i live in n.y.c. and you would think there a at least a few hobby shops in each boro. well there aren't. the only 2 hobby shops that have any airplane stuff are . . brownies hobbies in staten island(a $10 toll for the bridge and 18 miles out of the way) a great family owned business but overpriced in comparision to online. then theres bruckner hobbies. in the bronx. . . the sales people have mostly r/c car experince and are not the most friendly i have encountered.the owner at bruckner is a nice enough guy but when he's not there the staff seems not to care if they sell anything or not. salespeople eating chinese food at the counter and ignoring customers is not a good business practice!! so i mostly buy online and wait for my box a few days.

KW_Counter

Doc,
You're lucky, you've got a LHS.
We have one 32 miles away, sells mostly car stuff and is closed Sat, Sun & Mon.
I understand that cars are a bigger part of the business.
He tries to have some plane stuff but its the closed on weekends that kills it for me.
I have resigned myself to on-line shopping.
I hate being told they can order anything - so can I.

I agree, support your LHS when he supports you.

KW_Counter

starcad

My Feedback: (7)

Funny, I went into my LHS today to buy some eyelets. Couldn't find them so I asked the clerk standing at the counter eating his Chinese take-out. You could tell he was a car person as he had absolutely no clue what I was talking about. I left empty handed when I needed about $30 worth of other items. Seems they have everything I needed on one of the online stores. So I have to wait a week at least I will be getting exactly what i want and at a better price. I just wish they would hire someone that knows what a wing is really for.

cyclops2

Is FMA a monoply ? Are they controlling ALL the prices ?

I like their products & service with no foreign accents so difficult to understand.

No problem.

Cheaper is what most people want. The good old days of forced markups by several middle men are over. Call it good old "Deregulation Benefits".

cyclops2

FMA is not sticking to the LHS.

Unless you have a legal contract. They have no obligation to anyone.

Does a LHS have a obligation to pay minimum wages & full benefits ? Absolutly not.

Hard cutback times for many people & bussinesses.