RE: Beginner Plane
 

The plot thickens:

http://www.terrencefoley.com/images/...Loop%20Lrg.jpg A short page re the forces acting on the CG, wheels and fuse of a taildragger at takeoff. If you have trouble reading this in a browser, the image is downloadable and scalable.

I have no comment on this as it really just says that ALL taildraggers are basically laterally unstable in the takeoff. It doesn't shed any light on why MINE is more so than others. It does offer some thoughts on trying to control the plane with rudder and elevator although I pretty much exhausted efforts in the rudder department.

I don't know if I mentioned before that I had a GWS Corsair. That one, also a taildragger, took off with no lateral problems. Maybe just a hair of rudder to keep it straight. It did have a marked desire to nose over into the prop on takeoff. But that was easily overcome with up elevator.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I think you are hitting rocks/ruts/junk on the runway. You have no steering to control it so you spin.

What do you think?

This is from your note above:

If the wind is blowing out, you put your plane down and taxi to the opposite end of the pad, turn and take off toward yourself. I tried to taxi out as far as possible, but the plane is so light, even taxiing with the wind I would go fast enough to loop. I tried to get out as far as possible and head into the wind as much as possible. And I tried to note when the wind was declining or dead. The results were uniform. A short run and a ground loop.

Does the tail ever become airborn? I believe the tail should come up before the wings on a tail dragger. perhaps someone with more experience than I can comment here.

If the tail never comes up, you are not even approaching lift off speed.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I'll try to keep this from becoming a war story so as not to bore those more experienced. I just hate to leave out detail because I find the experiences of others so helpful for myself.

The short version seems to be "Faint Heart n'eer Won Fair Lady." The old timer from Monday (who suspiciously was nosing in multiple foamies when he told me) was right. I just had to open the throttle wide open and go for it. It flew right through the instability and took off. If you're looking for something to float around the pattern and just plane enjoy, this plane is it. That's the short version.

I did re-balance the CG to pert near the exact center of the recommended range. (Naturally, when I got out on the field, there was another old timer who, when he saw the JA$5 coin, about the size of a 25pound olympic weight lifting plate that I'd taped to the top of the fuse to balance it, spent 10 minutes telling me that it was going to be too tail heavy, tail heavy is death, nose heavy don't matter....nya nya, nya nya, nya nya). He was a nice guy though and we fiddled with the plane for a while and discussed the situation. When he offered to test it out for me, I readily accepted. As this was going to be my first real flight, I knew that part of my problem was probably nerves. I figured if he got the thing off the ground it would put me at ease and I'd be less likely to be just plain all thumbs.

I tried a taxi first and showed him the ground loop. He tried it and sure enough, I wasn't nuts, it did it for him too. But we talked over this and that and he tweaked the wheels a hair and we finally decided to try and go for it. In all the times it spun around, it was always perfectly flat and never even started to flip so we decided we had nothing to lose.

He took off, flew around for 3-4 minutes (I've got a timer) and pronounced it a fine flying machine even if it did look like it had Judas' 50 pounds of silver on the tail.

I charged up the battery, took off and flew around another 5 minutes and change, proving that you really CAN learn to fly reading books and practicing on simulators (as long as you're well practiced on a simulator with Mode2 controls, not a joystick. That's why I cracked up my other stuff. The joystick doesn't develop the proper reactions).

We never got around to hand launching it.

The plane is a beauty. I think the estimates of 8 minute flights right out of the box will prove correct. After he flew, I was getting late for an appointment so I didn't fully charge the battery. Last time it took over 20 min to fully charge. I only charged it 17 min. After a 5 min flight I still had plenty of power on the throttle. I do have to admit one thing. It was a perfect day for flying. Humid but felt cool, just above 70F. Wind was 0-5 and declining. Overcast so no matter which direction you faced, there was no blinding sun. I just flew the pattern. Nice straight legs between and standard turns to the east and west on the ends.

The SuperStar EP flys EXACTLY like the PT40 trainer in the G2 simulator. EXACTLY. I can build properly and no adjustment or trim was necessary. (Now that means no coarse trim to make it fly properly. I don't bother to trim short flight legs if all I have to do is bump it 4-5 times in a leg.) I took off at full throttle. I cut it to 75% climbing and I was able to keep it about 30% once I got as high as I wanted. I'm pretty much blind in one eye (literally) and don't always see 100% out the other so just above the trees is fine with me. Without trim the plane tends to stay nose high. You've got to keep it from climbing even at 30% power. Turns are very steady with little rudder to keep the nose up. The guy who wrung it out for me looped it and said it did so easily but that it would not roll. I didn't see it when he tried to roll it so I can't comment on the roll. The loop was pretty. Mike even commented that it was a good glider. He shut off the throttle and it really floats. Landings again are just like the simulator. Bring it in under a tiny bit of power like you're going to be short of the runway, then chop power and it will land wherever you want. It will float almost all the way down the runway.

Its my kind of plane. If you want to do inverse hovers, forget it. But if you want to see what flying a real light plane is like: everything slow and steady, by the book, and with just enough power to do what its supposed to, you can't go wrong. $109 for the plane from Tower, $85 eBay delivered for a JR 6 ch with Rx all batteries, charger and full size servos I didn't use. Another 3 mini servos at $6 ea from eBay and Bob's your uncle. That's $212 total to get in the air.

When I first started going to this field, there were some old timers who just flew high wing trainers. But they had them so tweaked and trimmed I thought they must have gyros or electronic stabilizers of some kind. Their planes were rock solid on the straight legs and smooth as silk in the turns. This plane gave me a real taste of that.

Thanks again to all who responded.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

:)...:)....:)....:)....:)...:)

WINNER!! WINNER!! WINNER!! Ladies and Gentlemen, we have a WINNER!!

:)...:)....:)....:)....:)...:)

The prize goes to Piper Chuck who correctly suggested the width of stance as being a cause of the problem. I've posted another excerpt from a design book which I just missed by one page at http://www.terrencefoley.com/images/Ground%20Loop.jpg . I ran across it yesterday while on the Throne.

What it basically says it that on less than glider sized aspect ratio wings, the wheel stance should be at least 25% of the span! The SuperStar EP is well short of that. The two reference pages together suggest that first, all tail draggers are a bit laterally unstable at takeoff, and that, if the wheels are close together, the condition is aggravated.

Way to go Chuck!!!! (This was in All Forums >> RC Airplanes >> Beginners >> Hobbico SuperStar EP Select RTF w/Ailerons Newby . I've been looking for the answer to this in 4 different threads.)


My first modification to my EP will be a wide track, streamlined, fiberglass landing gear mount. In fact that may be the first thing of my own production that I may offer on my website.

(Note to mikeflyzz . For being the first to verify that he also had the same problem, PM me with your email address. When I make up the fiberglass landing gear, if they work, I'll send you a set on the house. Put away your discouragement and my last post for what a good time I had once I got the plane off the ground!)

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I need some help..Has anyone had trouble getting a megatech freedom flyer to fly. I cannot get mine to fly more than 20 feet, just goes DOWN. I am new at this. I had the battery charged; checked to balance center. Please HELP! Also, can anyone recommend the least expensive simulator?

RE: Beginner Plane
 

There are currently 20 G2 items for sale on eBay. The controller, program + 2 add on disks are about $125 delivered.

If the real problem is that you don't know how to fly, do two things:

First go to the library and get a book that's used for learning to fly a real plane. There's a bunch of simple ones covering ground school through solo. That's what you want. You HAVE to learn it. The ailerons do not make the plane turn. The elevator does NOT make the plane go up and down. The rudder does NOT make the plane go left right. Until you learn that stuff, you'll never fly. And its not hard. Just one thin book with large type and lots of pictures.

Second, get a simulator. A used G2 or a new G3 with a Mode 2 control box. Mode 2 is the arrangement for the 2 stick box in the US with the throttle and rudder on the left stick. Its that, or an instructor at the field. (A microSoft Simulator helps with the book learning.)

Flying is a TRAINED skill. The Wright Bros figured that out. That's why they made so many short flights when everyone else was killing themselves trying for long flights. You need the knowledge of flight aerodynamics burned into the muscle memory of your forefingers and thumbs. (Not your fist and wrist, which is why a MS joystick isn't good enough.)

Until you have those 2 things, you will do nothing but crash.

If you're already successfully flown other planes, ignore the above and be more specific. You say the plane will only fly 20 feet. If that's because you hand launched it, a rock will go 20 feet. How did it rise off ground? Normally? Why do you think it went down? More details please.

If you're taking about the http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...GMY3&P=ML#tech you've got to know that flying that plane is a bit like balancing a rod on your palm. You can move the rod around, but not directly. you have to anticipate what it adn the wind wants to do, then keep ahead of it. You can only make gentle turns because you cannot control the bank. Again, if you don't understand what I'm talking about here, you need to get a book on how an airplane flys.