Beginner Plane
 

I really want a plane. I am new so I want somwhat of a beginner plane. I Am however a good rc driver in general due to my car skills. I want something easy to learn to fly. I alreay have 1 plane but it is a type where there is 2 channels. It turns and throttle goes on or off. And it turns SLOW. I want something where i control hight, speed, turns good etc. I really dont car if it can takeoff and has wheels, but as long as i can land it slowly and not letting go the throttle and nosing right into the ground like the other plane which only lands when batteryies grow weak. What is a good plane. Is there anything I need to do before i can fly it like gas. How expensive of item am i looking at. Is there any good tips?Thanks,
Jeff

I have this
[link=http://www.ehobbies.com/rc-cox-8203.html]plane.[/link]

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Now I was wondering if [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXDSC1]This plane[/link]. would be a good choice. I do realize it says for intermediate to expert. Yet my old plane said beginner to intermediate and an intermediate flyer would be bored by it even i am. Where could i get an instructor. About how much do they cost. It this a good plane?

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Get A Superstar Ep, Get an instructor or use realflight flight sim. You can also e-mail me for tips as you progress. This isn't the best first timer plane but it teachs you good habits to manage flight and you can Hop it up when you get good It's a good size plane too. And pretty cheap.Ther are AeroBirds AndFoamis like tunder tiger/multiplex skyscooter too. Good luck Randy

RE: Beginner Plane
 

How much are instructors. About how long do u need one. Thanks

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Instruction is generally provided free of charge by your local R/C club and they will generally work with you as long as it takes for you to learn to fly confidently on your own. The only thing they ask is that you join the AMA and sometimes the club, to support their efforts and support the upkeep of the flying field. If you're starting out on a glow plane, this is still the best way to go. You have a signifigant amount of money invested in a typical glow trainer setup (~$500), and to crash it 10 seconds into the first flight trying it on your own would be signifigantly disappointing.

There are plenty of electrics out there that are flyable, much less expensive, and much more crashworthy than your typical glow trainer setup. The main difference is that you will need to progress through 3-4 planes to learn as much as you would from your typical glow trainer (basic flight, takeoffs and landings, basic aerobatics).

It's all about what you want to do. I won't say one way is better than the other. The end result is that you'll learn to fly, and isn't that what's important?

In your case, you seem to be interested in electrics and park flyers. The next logical progression in your case would be something like an Aerobird Challenger, which gives you 3-channel control.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Below I list electric planes for beginners. Some
come ready to fly, some are almost ready to fly (add your own radio gear) and
some are kits. All of them are electric. If you are looking for your first
plane, you should find something
here to peak your interest.

I don't recommend two channel R/T electrics, so you won't find any on the
list. They can be very easy to fly and can be a lot of fun, but they can also
be very easy to lose. A three channel R/E/T is a better choice as a first
plane, in my opinion.

If you are totally new to RC Flying, these articles may be helpful in
understanding how these planes fly



RC Planes Are not like RC Cars
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=17

Stall
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=31

Launch into the wind
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=43

Parts of the plane and how they work
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=54

The RC Pilots Cockpit
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=59

Flying the Plane
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=64

New Electric Flyer FAQs
http://www.ezonemag.com/pages/faq/a105.shtml

Six Keys to Success for new e-flyers
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=355208


READY TO FLY STARTER PLANES - Parkflyers
No building - they practically fly right out of the box
These also glide well so you can thermal soar
with them under the right conditions.

Aerobird Challenger - RTF Electric - $150
I started on an Aerobird RTF. I love it and recommend it highly I have over
300 between my original Aerobird and the newer AB Challenger. I also thermal
and slope soar this plane. Flies well and stands up to hard landings. The
add on fun accesories for night flying, air to air combat and drop module add
to the fun!
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=HBZ3500
Review
http://www.hobbyzonesports.com/Disco...ID=1289#Page01
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147621
Video
http://www.parkflyers.com/html/aerobird_video.html


Slow-V from Parkzone - $140
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. The is the best choice for people
who only have a small space to fly. Can also be flown indoors in a gym or
similar space.
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=PKZ1300
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2089493
Video
http://users.cwnet.com/dhsc19/Slo_V_Aerobatics.wmv
Night fly module on a Slo-V
http://rc-galaxy.com/messageboard/mb...ViewMsg&num=-8


T-Hawk - RTF - Excellent Value - $170
Comes with extra wing, tail and battery
Flies well and stands up to hard landings
Can be flown on 27 mhz or 72 mhz
http://www.toytx.com/thawk3chrtf.html
T-Hawk - Without Radio - add your radio and receiver
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/wittran.html
T-Hawk Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ighlight=THawk
Videos
http://www.readytoflyfun.com/thawkvideos.html


Easy Star - RTF - $180
Super tough foam. Comes with 72 mhz radio in the US.
Good parkflyer and a good glider
Radio in RTF package can be used to fly other planes
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240025.asp
Easy Star - ARF - Add you own radio gear
http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/240009.asp
Discussion Thread on Easy Star
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258656
Video - touch and gos
http://plawner.org/video/easygo.wmv
Video - Testing the planes's behavior
http://plawner.org/video/easystar.wmv


ALMOST READY TO FLY and EASY TO BUILD KITS - STARTER PLANES

Some of the planes in the previous group are available ARF as indicated.
Below are ARF and kit planes. You will need to buy a radio if you don't have
one, so you might want to read these articles on radios. Radios. The
articles are written for sailplane beginners, but all the info applies to
electrics too.

Entry Level Radios - If you have to go cheap
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=44

Computer Radios - The recommended path for almost everyone
http://www.rcezine.com/cms/article.php?cat=&id=65


ARF typically means you are not gluing balsa pieces together, then covering
with Monocote or some other shrink film. Below are ARFs and some are very
easy to build kits. In each case you must add your own radio, receiver,
servos, speed control, batteries and battery charger. They all come with a
motor.

Slow stick - $40
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze. This is an excellent choice for
people who have a smaller space to fly.
Can also be flown indoors in a gym or similar space.
The RTF Slo-V above is essentially a copy of this plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=GWS1040
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...hreadid=122951

Tiger Moth - $50
Best flown in still to under 5 mph breeze.
This is an excellent choice for people who have a smaller space to fly. Can
also be flown indoors in a gym or similar space. Cool looking little plane.
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=GWS1020
Review
http://www.backyardflyer.com/BY/articles/tiger_moth.asp

Tipsey - $55
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/tipsy.htm
Review
http://www.hobby-lobby.com/pdf/gr6232.pdf
http://rcgroups.com/links/index.php?...at=198&id=3871

Magpie - Using the trainer wing Easy to build Foam kit - $50
Has trainer wing AND an available sport wing
Master the first, then advance to the second.
http://www.mountainmodels.com/magpie.php
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...51#post3502851
Video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/Magpie.wmv

SmoothE - Easy to build Balsa and foam
Build as 3 Channel Slow Flyer
Or optional 4 channel aileron trainer
http://www.mountainmodels.com/smoothe.php
Funny video
http://www.mountainmodels.com/SmoothEsmall.WMV


Balsa Wood Kits - If you like to build with wood, these are highly
recommended.

Dandy
http://www.mountainmodels.com/dandy.php

Dust Stick
http://www.mountainmodels.com/duskstik.php

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Is this a biginner plane. What do u guys think about the [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXJKU3**&P=7]Supersatr EP[/link] Could i teach myself to fly. How fast does it go. How quick can it turn. Is there anything Ill need to get thats not coming with the plane the rtf plane.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I really like the superstar ep but I have to admit I knew how to fly long before I got my superstar ep It's a good size plane and takes a lot of room to fly unlike the aerobird. it'd be a better second plane Randy

RE: Beginner Plane
 

How much room is needed. Currently my plane takes about 10 seconds to make a 180 dagree turn and needs like 50ft to make that turn.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

For someone teaching theself I tend to lean away from a balsa plane. Too easy to break and too time consuming to fix. Ask me how I know!

OK time to start with the questions.

What is this first plane you are flying. How long have you been flying it. Are you completent with it? Do you still crash it?

How much room do you have for flying space? FeetXFeet, or football fieldsX football fields.

It it usually windy? How windy?

Is there somewere you can fly indoors?

Do you have a radio or just the RTF radio that came with that first plane.

We want to know your life history ... as it relates to RC flying.

What is your budget and what does this budget have to include?

When we have all of that we can start to make some intelligent recommendations.

Give!

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I dont know what type of old plane i had. It sucked. I have flown it for a few years. And i dont crash because it only can go straight and turns SLOW. I do crash landing because it only can land when batteryies die so i let it nose dive when im done.(this is the main place i want to fly.) I have maybe 500ft X 75 ft. Or another place. 300ft X 300ft. It not usually windy. Maybe 2-3mph gusts. No indorrs place. i NEED A radio. The old one is a 2 channel. I only RC drive really. I need everything for under $350. Thanks Jeff

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Go back to my post above. Slow V will fly in that space. Aerobird and, T-Hawk and Easy Star are good choices but that space will be tight.

Tiger moth and slow stick will be great in that space but not RTF. How do you fell about buying components and putting them together.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I dont care about getting components and sticking them in. I only want somwthing with SIMPLE put together turns quick and can take off and land.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Slow Stick - $35
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=GWS1040
Or
Tiger Moth $51
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=GWS1020

Flight pack for either plane - $73
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=GWS2085

Extra - Larger battery - $16

GWS 12V Peak Charger - can charger from a car cig lighter -
There are cheaper chargers, but this one looks good for this plane and
future - $49
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...p?prod=GWS3000

GWS Radio - $35
4 Channel - Make sure you get the same channel on the radio and the flight
pack
http://horizon.hobbyshopnow.com/prod...sp?prod=GWST4A

Slow Stick $35 + $73 + $16 + $49 + 35 = $208 + Shipping for Slow Stick

or $224 for Tiger Moth.


Ready to fly package - comes with everything you need
Slow-V from Parkzone
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pro...p?prod=PKZ1300
Discussion Thread
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_20...tm.htm#2089493



There are lots more choices, If you want a small space electric parkflyer,
the Slo-V, the Slow Stick or the Tiger Moth are Excellent choices.

If you have more space, like several soccor fields together, the Easy Star,
T-Hawk and the Aerobird Challenger are good choices. They fly faster and can
handle more wind.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I tought myslef to fly with a wattage sky wizzard.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

A lot of good choices mentioned. I think the T-Hawk is a great value especilly when you conside that it includes alot of extras. Another great starter plane is the Megatech Freedom Flyer. Megatech has improved a lot over the last few years and this plane is very good. The Freedom Flyer comes with a nice 4 channel FM radio that can be used in other planes and replacement parts are readily available.

Best regards,
Brian

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I would go with either the Slo V or Slow Stick. If you are just beginning than these are the planes to get. I made the mistake of thinking that flying a plane would be as easy as a car, DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE!!!! Some things are similar but most of the time it is different. 2 Channel planes aren't really good to learn on except for throttle and rudder. There are many times where I wished that I had elevators on my Firebird Scout and it ended up crashing each time. If the wind gets your plane and it starts going down, USE YOUR Elevators!!! I learned that the hard way because the throttle didn't get it to climb fast enough and it never overcame its forward momentum until it was too late.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

i started out with a superstar glow powered and was taught by an excellent pilot named ira jersey.the superstar glow powered is a really good flying plane if it was me i would go for that. good luck.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

kihei11 and Aeair:

Boy do I need some help. I'm kind of boiling as I write this.

I've crashed a few planes and decided to get a gentle trainer because I felt I'd crashed the others because they were too fast for me. Even after I got the Superstar EP I realized that another problem I had was all my simulator experience was with a joystick. I was lost in Mode2. So I got a Realflight Simulator with a Mode2 Box just like my JR Tx. I've been practicing for 3 weeks waiting for the wind to die down so I could finally fly. I've gotten where I can fly just fine in Mode2 Even when I set the system for 10 Mph winds, gusts to 15Mph with 30 degree variability and I can land just fine.

The problem is, I can't get the plane off the ground. As soon as the plane gets close to takeoff speed, it ground loops. Into the wind, with the wind, cross wind, no wind, before I can take off, the plane spins around.

I put the plane together exactly as per the instructions. The Center of Gravity is at or a 1/8 inch forward of maximum but, while in the extreme, that could make the plane more stable, less responsive and a bit reluctant to rise off ground it should have nothing to do with the plane ground looping.

I've tried to stop the loop with rudder but it just loops faster in the other direction. I have no trouble on takeoffs in the simulator that require a bit or rudder.

I've tried a quick glance at my aircraft design books regarding lateral stability and the solution seems like it might be a larger vertical stabilizer. But that was a really quick look. Have you ever heard of this? Any suggestions? Unless I'm really mistaken, there's something seriously wrong with this plane. But I think it should be easily fixed.

Thanks.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

First line above: You are talking about a real plane, not a simulator plane, right?

Are we takling the EP Superstar Electric - 3 Channel?

1/8 inch forward of the maximum what? Max forward CG? Max rear CG? What Maximum?

Ground loop - Aee you flipping over backwards? Nosing over and tunbling forward? Left side? Right Side? Always the same? You say spinning around, but I am not 100% sure what you are describing.

Do you have a steerable wheel?

Are you trying to take off from a hard runway? Gravel? Grass? Long or short Grass?

Have you EVER successfully gotten off the runway? Has anyone?

Are you working alone? With an instructor? A coach? What are they suggesting?

Need lots more info!

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Yes, the plane I'm having trouble with is a real Hobico Superstar EP with Ailerons. Electric, 4 channel.

Using only the stock parts and a JR RX (I think its a NER 226. About the size of a box of matches) the plane balances just at or ahead of the recommended forward CG limit. I'll have to go back and measure again to be sure, but the whole CG range is only 1/2 inch.

??Sorry, I thought a ground loop was a very particular mishap. The plane ABRUPTLY spins in a circle as viewed from above. like a dog chasing its tail. Pretty much always the same but in either direction. As I said, on the simulator, I've had no problems with take offs that required some rudder. With the real plane, even with a slow careful throttle runnup, and my lightest touch as possible on the rudder, as soon as the plane gets near takeoff speed, it SUDDENLY spins around. You can direct the plane with the rudder, but at a certain speed you just lose control and it spins. Fortunately I've been able to chop power and oddly, because it spins perfectly flat, there has been no damage. Even in the wind it didn't lift one wing or the other. It was late PM. Wind was dying down. 0-10 MPH without much gusting. The wind would rise steadily over a few minutes and then steadily drop to nothing. Then repeat.

The plane is a RTF taildragger. All I did was put in the servos and pushrods. I have tons of building experience. Not that I can't screw up with the best of 'em. But I did a preflight. Over adn over. I tried to fly, failed, stopped, went back to the bench, reexamined the craft and radios. 5 times I think.

The County forest preserve runway is a 200x200ft asphault pad, surrounded by prox 200 ft of grass, then trees. Its a square pad so you can always takeoff adn land into the wind. The tail has a nonsteerable skid.

Nope, nope and alone. There were a couple of old timers at the field that day but they had no suggestions. A commercial pilot who I've seen fly and i've talked with was arriving just as I got to my car. He's got a SomethingStar but its glow, larger and tricycle gear. He was unable to offer any insight.

One of the old timers said I needed to just go for it. Throttle up and fly through it, but its my understanding that an airplane should be controllable at all times. Also, that old timer nosed in both his foamies as I watched. As I said, my plane, just before takeoff speed becomes uncontrollably unstable laterally. It suddenly whips around and tries to bite its tail.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Thanks for the info.

Is this your plane?
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXGVZ3&P=ML

Or this?

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...=LXJKU3**&P=ML

I am assuming it is the ARF since you mention a JR receiver and the Select comes with a Futaba radio system.

Tip: You will find you will get a lot better info a lot faster if you provide a link that has info about your plane. Otherwise we are either guessing or are giving advice based on a plane that is different than the one you have.

Recommendations:

Get the CG to the center of the recommended range. This may be the key. You say you have the CG forward of the most forward recommended position. This is very bad. The plane may be starting to lift and it can't get the nose up because it is too nose heavy. Move the battery or other components back, or remove weight from the nose. Get it to the center of the range. Even a little off can be enough to have a major impact on the way the plane flies.


Since you are spinning left and right, not always the same direction, I will assume this is not a trim situaiton.

You must always take off into the wind. Any other direction at this point provides no useful information.

I still don't know if you have a steerable wheel or a fixed wheel or a drag wire. From the site I presume it is just a wire

How are you charging the battery? Are you using the stock battery? I presume you are balancing he plane with the battery in it, correct?

RE: Beginner Plane
 

I think you should get a simulator.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

(Just a sec AE.)


Thanks. Please read the post before answering.

I have MS Flight simulator. I have many hundred hours on this simulator. One of my favorite flights is to take off a 777 from runway 14R at Chicago Ohare, get up to 3000AGL make a quick right turn to 265, an immediate left to 130 and you can immediately land on the ILS at Midway. All that without looking out the window. Just instruments. Try it for a break. You can make the whole flight in under 15 minutes while sweating off 5 pounds. If you do this quickly you have just jogged over 20 miles to line up with Midway airport, which is almost directly south of Ohare but the runways which face the same way are offset by 20 miles west. Be quick or ATC sends you all the way counterclockwise around Ohare into Wisconsin. You actually have to anticipate the controller's instructions a bit and keep your airspeed below 200 kts or you can't make it. You can't swing the plane fast enough.

But thats operated with a joystick and a mouse. I was lost in Mode 2. That's what most people use here in the US. That's an R/C control box with 2 joy sticks. The left stick is throttle and rudder. The right stick is elevator and aileron. I had no experience on those controls. And flying is like riding a bicycle. Hand/eye coordination burned into muscle memory.

So I got a RealFlight simulator with a Tx interlink. Thats a Mode 2 (see paragraph above) transmitter box that hooks up to your computer. I only got it last week so I haven't much time on this simulator. I've only got about 2-3 hours flying around the different locations until I decided on one I liked. Then I put in about 30 hours (I'm semi retired) in doing almost nothing but touch and goes and dead stick practice while changing the wind every few hours.

RE: Beginner Plane
 

Yeah, I've got the ARF rather than the select. Thanks for the tip re including links. That does provide l lot of info fast and I do tend to assume people were there at the field watching me struggle.

Also, the simulator exercises I've been doing have been in the Great Planes PT40 trainer. Essentially the same plane as mine, just slightly larger and glow powered. I changed it only to have the same paint scheme as my SuperStar. Again, this paragraph is just referencing the simulated planes. I understand flying is not exactly the same, but as I said, I was used to one JoyStick. Mostly I got the RealFlight simulator to build hand eye coordination so I wouldn't have to think about which stick controlled what surface. That part's automatic now. Whichever direction the plane's flying.

(sigh) I'll try that too. I'm not sure how I'll do it without weighting the tail. In an attempt to move the CG back a hair, I stuffed the receiver behind the battery by attaching it to the battery hatch just before I took the plane out to fly. That's about 3" back and about 1/2" down. I also moved the ESC back about another inch to the limits of the wiring. (What's that good for? .001oz? But I did it.) Everything else is nailed down and can't be moved without cutting into something. The motor obviously is nailed down and designed into that location. The battery is blocked in and those two components are over 1/2 the weight of the plane. The only thing I could easily do is to put the Rx back into the fuse where I'd have to take it out to unplug the aileron servo every time I wanted to remove the wing, or redo the front and rear battery mounts. Fortunately the plane seems to have a surprising amount of thrust so a little tail weight as a quick and temporary fix might not hurt. I was hoping someone had already experienced and fixed this problem so I wouldn't have to do it by trial and error.

I've never seen anything relating a small forward CG to lateral instability though I can vaguely see where it might happen. As I said, I'm just starting on design theory. There seems to be much more paper on pitch and roll instability. Also, if it turns out that the forward CG doesn't seriously affect takeoff, I was hoping to take advantage of some enhanced stability. I'm really getting sick of building planes and infrastructure (I've practically built a fiberglass/aeronautics lab this year + I had a mojor computer crash last week.) I need to see something fly. That's why I stepped 'down' to the trainer. I really just want to see something float around in a few gentle turns and. land. As you can see from my post to Fly-n-3D I can pretty well amuse myself without ever leaving the airport pattern.


I agree. While I won't know for sure until it gets off the ground, I carefully checked the control surfaces visually. I fiddled endlessly with the rudder and watched the lateral performance of the plane carefully. At a certain speed, the instability totally overwhelms the vertical control surfaces. I can steer the plane till that point. Then it suddenly snaps around.

Here I've got to plead for a bit of mercy. I tried to go with the wind as much as possible and to wait for the wind to die down as much as possible. But the way our field is set up, there's sort of a rule that no one walks beyond the pilot's flight/control line onto the pad. If the wind is blowing out, you put your plane down and taxi to the opposite end of the pad, turn and take off toward yourself. I tried to taxi out as far as possible, but the plane is so light, even taxiing with the wind I would go fast enough to loop. I tried to get out as far as possible and head into the wind as much as possible. And I tried to note when the wind was declining or dead. The results were uniform. A short run and a ground loop.
The plane is a tail dragger. Not tricycle gear. The tail drag is just a monocote covered balsa strut. The type thats just a little bump. The strut is not steerable.

I have a Great Planes peak charger thats got switches for NiCd/NiMh and for charging current. http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LE2947&P=1

Stock battery. Yes, I'm balancing the plane as it will fly.

I probably should add that in all other respects I like the plane. It seems well designed and constructed. As I said, there seems to be plenty of power turning the prop. On the bench the battery ran for over 10 to 15 minutes at half throttle while continuously working the control surfaces, although that was without a prop. so there was no load on the motor. It was as easy to put together as anything else I've built. Big enough inside for my mits to work on it.