FERNDALE AIR FORCE

Mag, a couple of different calculation programs have been offered to me. They are freebies as far as I can tell, but you have to know what you are working with. I will post the one from a known source or all, let me know.

Tim

magnum500

some more pics of the wings/ailerons , i used the scrap balsa from the kit to build up the wing and aileron . still not quite finished yet , i need to bevel the aileron . i have some sprare hinges from an older kit i`ll be useing . progress was a little bit slow this week . next i think i`ll order my flight pack . i`ll post some more pics of the other wing and more detail of what i did . any thoughts on a nice light covering ? i have a bunch of solartex . it seems very light , maybe too light
jay

magnum500

post them . that way i can save the link(s) .
counting the days for my sukoi
jay

wolfy888

Hi, guys!
Consider this: Series 500 Spitfire Mk I at 16 1/2" wingspan stick-and-tissue kit from Guillow's; what power and radio combination? I've never tried this before, but have dreamed of it for 40 years. Now that Planetronics apparently has had the same dream, maybe it is a realistic project. Perhaps it can become a community research? "Gentlemen, start your engines!" Wolfy888

magnum500

i thought about a spit or some other type of war bird but i figured i`d try an "easy flyer" first . all i can say is git r done , it will be fun .
did you check out the links posted in this thread ?
jay

wolfy888

Somewhat. It was reallly late by the time I got thru the whole string, but just wanted to see what ideas are running around out there. As a kid, I played with this idea constantly, but the only equipment available was pulse-proportional and escapement; the analog equipment was just too big and heavy to even consider. Tell you what: I'm already building the kit, so if everybody puts in, I'll use the results of this discussion and post the results. I'm looking to make it a semi-scale 4-ch airplane that flies realistically like a Spitfire would. Adding retracts would be nice, but once again we're up against wing loading. I've built enough of these kits to own stock in Guillows, so I can do the necessary lightening of the airframe. More data later. Wollfy888

magnum500

some more build pics
the first shows my lines to cut on for the aileron ,the second is a scrap peice of balsa i traced the rib for the aileron , i used a cutout from the kit to get the rib, next , one rib cutout ready for final fitting , the next is traced on some more scrap ready to be cut , fourth pic shows ribs glued into place and aileron ready for final assembly , pic five i trimmed the excess off to ensure free movement , pic six .... both wings complete and ready to be beveled and hinged , the last pic is what is next , the elev. and rud. . my next question should i make this a four channel model ? can i spare the added weight to have a functional rudder ? any input is great .
jay

CBM Racing

Just popped in to say nice project! Just my opinion and preference, but rudder is always a good option to have. I'm sure the few grams of weight will be offset by better control and ground steering, but that is just my thinking. An option to offset the weight is to stretch the wings by 2-3 inches each panel to add some lift and also slow it down some as well. How was the wood in your kit? I've built several of the warbirds(freeflight mode)and out of the 4 I built only 1 had lighter weight wood in it, the rest weighed a ton. Good luck on it though, Threads like these are fun for me to track, and I'm sure very helpfull to many modelers! Thanks for good thread and great pics.

magnum500

hey thanks cbm for the input . the wood did seem more dense than balsa the same thickness . when the craft is ready for final assembly i will weigh it again , an post it . as for adding a few inches to the wing span ...that is a great idea , i should have thought of that . thanks again
jay

FERNDALE AIR FORCE

Mag, I also think a functional rudder is important. You will rapidly figure it ou.t

magnum500

i guess it will be full four channel craft . thanks for the input

wolfy888

Nice job so far, Jay! The added sq. in. from increased span will definitely help with wing loading, and shouldn't detract from the yaw stability, however, if you're not sure then I would increase the area of the vertical stab as well, maybe 10%. The extra drag at the wingtips may give you some directional trouble. Starting to feel a bit like Howard Hughes at this point. IMO, full house is always the way to go; been a full-scale pilot for a lot of years as well as R/C, and the extra control is almost always of good benefit. Looking at these park flyers with rudder/elevator makes no sense to me....NO, GUYS, IT'S ELEVATOR/AILERON! Sorry, I'm a warbird type. Rudder is a nice addition if you can spare the weight, and gives you better ground control and the ability to do complex maneuvers that require rudder input, but otherwise (especially at speed) is relatively useless. JMO. Wolfy.

FERNDALE AIR FORCE

Wolfy, I am the rudder guy. if the plane is going to fly scale it needs a rudder. If the plane is going to fly aerobatic it needs a rudder.

This is a weird place for me, but you want a rudder.

wolfy888

No argument here, if it's a trainer, BUT....fast and furious such as a warbird is a lot more fun if you have the roll control of ailerons. In my fulll scale experience, (and most non-pilots aren't aware of this) outside of ground maneuvers, rudder is used to coordinate yaw and roll to limit slip in turns. Remember "center the ball"? In trainers with lots of dihedral, rudder input will cause the desired roll movement, but in flatter wing planforms it's more of a skidding turn. Gets the job done, but not very pretty. In a dogfight between the two, the aileron-equipped airplane will ALWAYS have a definite advantage. My buds and I had this argument many times, and, well, the nickname Wolfy isn't just smoke-n-mirrors. Picked a LOT of streamers out of my carbs. We're flying old Royal Models warbirds; I have a Bf 109, a P-51 (of course), and a Zero, all with O.S .15 power that are full-house and the guys all have various warbirds as well. Seems I have the most trouble with the Spit, but he's a really good pilot. 20-foot x 1/4" streamers are hard to hit until you get used to it. Y'all should try it sometime, things get pretty heated after you get good.

RysiuM

My Feedback: (1)

Speaking about Guillows conversion I did one recently. It was Cessna 150 (24 inch wingspan). I have converted it to 4 ch RC (ailerons, Elevator, Throttle and Rudder (with steering front wheel). It is a long story described on polish language forum [link=http://forumrc.alexba.eu/ipw-web/bulletin/bb/viewtopic.php?t=9929]Alexrc.com[/link]. If you don't read Polish there are still plenty of pictures over there. For short description the plane is covered with tissue with some balsa sheeting and almost all wood is stock. The power comes from C-10 2900kV (from Hobby City), TURNIGY Plush 6A /.8bec/6g, Assan micro 4ch Rx, 3 servos HTX-500. All powered by 2s 400LiPo (Zippy). Model has also Nav and Landing lights (and beacon) and custom made electronic power switch. The plane weights 150 g and flies exactly like 152 just 3 times faster (in scale speed). Video from the maiden flight on my club's website [link=http://www.masmrc.com/events-and-fun-stuff/videos/122-cessna-n67405-first-flight]www.masmrc.com[/link].

build light

One of the best R/C conversions of the Guillow's kits in my opinion is the Fairchild 24
Here is a video of one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDd89JtWJq4

Robert

FERNDALE AIR FORCE

I never did get those links up. I'll have to find the prop calc, I hid it from myself

http://brantuas.com/ezcalc/dma1.asp

http://sky.prohosting.com/air2/cg_calc.htm

Tim

magnum500

wow . i go away for 7 days and tons of great info . now its time to get back at it . any preferance on covering ?
thanks again for all the great input .
jay

micro_builder

My Feedback: (1)

Looks like the project is coming along nicely, its always good (and increasingly rare) to see built up balsa models these days

Standard tissue should work as a covering material, but if you can get your hands on some Japanese tissue, that would be even better as its lighter.

Good luck with the rest of the project, keep us posted!

Nick

magnum500

i fly with a fella who still covers with silk . i may go that way .

magnum500

a little more progress pic 1 shows the horiz. stab cut and built up ready for hinges
pic 2 vert stab being built up
pic 3 both complete and ready for hinges
pic 4 the reason for so little work being completed

magnum500

hey wheelnut i saw some of your aircraft posted on the sukhoi thread , and noticed a spit , that looks sweet ! where did it come from ?

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

Here are some pics of the 24" guillows super cub I am converting to electric. I have opted to make it rudder, elevator, throttle only. If you notice I used 1/16th stringers with scrap pieces of plastic from the windshield for hinges to make the elevator and rudder. this keeps you from having to add nose weight, however if you are using a larger motor you may not have to worry about that. This setup with a 10 gram motor, 20amp speed control, 4ch micro receiver, and 360mh lipo will almost hover with the charge that was in the batt when it arrived.

wolfy888

Hi,guys:
Most of the Guillow's kits come with a covering material called silkspan; it's a type of tissue that's made of cloth fibers mixed in with the paper pulp, and the fibers are non-directional which makes the stuff shrink more uniformly. Works pretty good. HOWEVER, dope-and-tissue covering systems aren't the best way to go for a couple of reasons: first, because paint is heavy, which isn't too good considering we're already fighting wing loading issues, and second: applying the stuff isn't exactly easy. Water-laid lacquer solves the weight issue, but is kinda really delicate. In both cases, the application of either is really a lost art; I learned how to do both systens at a very early age (six or seven), because the original Top Flite Monokote hadn't even been invented yet. Someone posted somewhere here about a material called ultracote which sounds like it's the perfect thing, but I haven't tried it yet. Just my two cents.

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

I am using the tissue taht came with the kit, using a 50/50 mix of water and Elmers glue that makes it very easy and light. If you use thinned water based paint and an air brush it will stay tight and doesn't add much weight.