Here you, yourself have given one of the main reasons people will continue to switch to electric power. They have had problems with their glow engines. Just because you've mastered the art of running your Y.S. engines and they work great for you, dosen't mean there aren't better sollutions for other people.... "People that don't enjoy fiddling with engines".

So, just because I think the future isn't your favorite power source, that isn't an inditement on you personally. I believe you will have your Y.S. engines for as long as you like. I just think that as time goes you will find yourself in the minority to a greater extent.

Again, please don't take this personal. It's just an opinion on where the industry is headed.

Given the newest developments in counter rotating props and gear/belt drives appearing in the Electric realm I see the death nail of IC as far as Pattern on the horizon. Just look at the amount of electrics versus IC at your local flying field. The small plane market is solidly electric now and the size and amount of larger airplanes is growing by leaps and bounds. There are more foam electric airplanes flown at our field now than anything else. I even own a couple and they are a load of fun. Throw it in the back seat on the way to work and fly on the way home. Whats not to like?

You will be assimilated.

Tim

.
I think this is one of those win-win situations like 72Mhz vs. 2.4Ghz. I know several people personally who benefitted when I literally gave them my 72Mhz equipment. Same with my YS engine and associated glow equipment. In the way that the prices and frequency availability of the old radio equipment came down, this will happen with glow equipment and fuel. The guys that know how to keep their YS engines in that "happy zone" will benefit with less competition in the engine and fuel market, while those of us who have switched are smiling inside every time we realize we will never have to tweak another needle valve or regulator again for the Rest.Of. Our. Natural. Lives. . . .
.

I have electic foamies and that is the perfect solution for that size of plane. When you get to the .40 + sized, I'd prefer to run a YS .63 versus charging large batteries. The "result" of electric power is great - I personally don't like the battery management process of it all though. I place a premium on fuel-n-fly and longer flight times per flight. There are more and more notes coming out regarding people changing bearings - or finding other ways to work on electric motors. The ESC pops from time to time. The Batteries puff cells from time to time. This all equates to "work" that is done to the motor system. Once you put it all together, I really do not see the advantage versus the PIA of it all. I'll take my lumps or risks running YS, and others will take their lumps and risks running eletric. Deadsticks or low power output flights can happen to each system.

Its a little like game improvement golf clubs. All the "increased technology" hasn't resulted in a world wide phenomina of lower handicaps and better rounds of golf. Nor does electric help you score better maneuvers.
Thanks,
Jim

Too each is own. If you've been popping ESCs, puffing batteries and having dead sticks on any kind of a regular basis then I'm not surprised that you are having trouble seeing the benefits of electric power. I'd say you haven't been doing something right. I haven't puffed a cell in years. I've never popped an ESC and I've had precious few dead stick landings. I've been flying electric power for 14 years and have been electric exclusively for 6 years.

There are some things I do differently than you however that may make my preference easier to understand. I don't like extra long flight times. Something between 8 and 12 minutes is usually all I ever care for at one time. I bring along several dirt cheap Chinese lipos when I go to the field and I almost never recharge when I'm there. I just swap batteries and go. I'll race you some time if you think I spend more time getting ready between flights than you. I've never changed the bearings on my motors.... never. I know some people have had to but it hasn't been me. In fact, my motors are cheap enough (I use outrunners.) that I'd rather replace them than spend much time or money servicing them. We haven't even touched on the vibration issue or the glow slime issues either. But then I'm sure you have your ways with dealing with those things that are better than mine were. So I suppose it's all in what you know. But the beginners of today are cutting their teeth on foamies and other small electrics. Their experience isn't with glow engines and so their tendency will be to stick to what they do know. Like it or not, glow engines have been shown the door in a very big way. Maybe they haven't gone through that door just yet because of guys like you that grew up with glow power but electric power is the future. The writing is on the wall.

Mike Wiz - there is no doubt that electric stuff is gaining tremendious market share. The glow/gas market will adjust accordingly to discover new edges of the hobby dollar. Heres a for instance - the Evolution line of motors Horizon imports is debuting new .60 sized engines. Obviously they believe there is a need for a new product in that class of engine. Again, its a great time to be in the hobby.
Jim

Well everybody is entitled to an opinion, right? I just shared mine with all of you. And contrary to what others might think, my opinion dosen't represent any disespect on my part toward glow engine enthuisasts. Heck, I used glow engines for years myself. But for me, they were always a means to an end and not the fun part of the hobby. For others, tuning little engines and listening to them scream is fun.... That's cool.

Is it a great time to be in the hobby? Of course it is but then I would have said that at anytime in my history of invlovement with R/C. I see a trend that is gaining momentum. If you don't think so, that's fine. In the end, all that matters is that we enjoy our respective interests in the hobby and hopfully we can at least appreciate what each other is doing even if it's not our personal area of interest.

I used YS and I never had any problems with them. They run so well once you understand how to tune the engine, of which is not hard at all. Not to forget using 25% nitro fuel makes her run happily. However, you can see the 160/170 are bone shakers and the wear and tear on the plane is so obvious. Heck, some even use mini servos with EP 2M patternships because of the lack of vibration from the 160/170. Then some are so fanatical, they change a new plug every few flights when competing. Tuning the engine in the morning and competing later in the afternoon will mean another potential retuning.

For me EP is the way to go for me now BUT for Q500 planes nothing beats the scream of an engine revving at 21K RPM. EP is so smooth and convenient (I am now too lazy to clean up after flying) but I did speak with quite a few F3A flyers who now moved to EP. They enjoy the smooth throttle response. They find it to be more predictable.

Downside is the batts, that is the 'weak link' now. Charging time, investment cost (best to have 4 sets in hand, 6 would be great), cost of 2 good chargers and longevity/durability of the batts. In Malaysia its weird, we have found Rhinos to be a FAILURE. Almost all bloat after 10 cycles even though we are pushing the batts to only 70% of their discharge capability. Even Turnigy ones are the same. Something must be wrong from where we come from! You guys in the US are lucky ...

At the end of the day its a personal choice.

tIANci,

I haven't used Rino batteries. I have used Turnigy and been less than happy with them. My favorites are Zippy Flightmax for cheap batteries and Thunder Power for high quality batteries. Though, to be honest, I haven't seen much of a difference. If you are bloating batteries one of a couple of things could be happening. You may be drawing more current than they can handle. You could be running them too far down or you could have a cell that isn't balanced with the others. Other than that, maybe try a higher C rating in the same brand.

I don't think you need 2 chargers... at least not in the beginning. I have a new FMA Powerlab 8 (... that I haven't yet used) that can charge both packs at once and at very high current rates. You can have your batteries charged in 15 minutes or less if your batteries are up to that.

Is choosing electric power or glow a personal choice? Of course it is. But these days you see more and more people making the personal choice to go electric. They aren't doing that for no reason. Not so many years ago these very same people laughed at electric powered planes. Something must have happened to change their minds.<br type="_moz"/>

I detailed I'm flying F3A and the airplanes and motors/engine I use, it will be interesting to see what other people use , planes/motors/engines, and class flown. As there are so many success/failures stories we could all benefit from that information.

regards

That is really amazing. My experience with Rhino is exceptional. Cannot imagine humidity is a factor here. Temperature yes.

Would be interesting to see if you get an improvement if you store your batteries in the refrigerator.

Are you discussing 10S sets here? What brand does work for you?

I am flying with 3 sets and two chargers and I don't experience having to wait for charged batteries when flying.

Volkert

Oh well, I am a begginer, being flying for almost a year now. But my flight instructor is an old school glow flyer, so I learned glow.
Now I have 6 glow engines and there is nothing like the sound they make. Actually I was thought to judge revs by the sound.
I know it is messy, but it is cheaper and the systems last longer.
My opinion, GLOW

Over the past few years I've slowly been adding electric-powered planes to my stable - not necessarily because they are electric, but just because they are the planes I wanted and they happened to be electric (EP Seawind, foamie indoor stuff, Evader sport jet and Rifle pylon plane). Somewhere in there I also did a re cover on a Venus II ARF and converted it to electric. More and more though I'm gravitating toward electric. The down side can be shorter flight times (4 minutes for the Evader, 2 minutes for the Rifle, but at 120mph and 170mph respectively the flight times are plenty). I have the timer on my Venus set to five or six minutes which is a shorter flight time than I prefer, but I enjoy flying it so much it's worth it. I'm also running 3300mAh batteries though and will probably switch to 3800 or 4000 soon to extend the flight time.

To me the biggest attraction of electrics is the absence of fuel and everything that goes with it including the exhaust residue and having to clean it. I also like learning the new technology of electrics and the ultimate simplicity of the installation (at least that's my opinion). The time it takes for charging batteries isn't a problem because I charge when I'm home doing something else. I also like the lack of noise.

The next guy will come along and provide lots of valid reasons why he prefers glow or gas, which is great. All you can do is try to consider the pros and cons others write about and see which ones work best for you.

Bah Humbug!!! Piss on Electric

Gasoline baby, all the way

KNOT!! LOL

That could be painful. I wouldn't try that if I were you.

Matt,

Make sure you're not grounded or you'll need more than Viagra!!

Hobbico R&amp;D.... Good deal.

Tim,
How about a plane similar to the Venus II but with an electric power option taken into account. You know, like the original Reactor..... which I think is one of the best knock around airplanes ever concieved. BTW, I fly that Reactor on a 6S 4000 mah pack and I get much longer flights than 4 minutes. Of course I don't fly it at WOT all the time either.

Wiz

Well, here's my 2 cents..

I love the way the YS performs, sounds, smells and handles. I've been flying IC since I started in this hobby, and I think I'll always own a couple of IC-engines!
There is some maintenence involved, but not too much. (Having said that, I do have an Ys160 that for some obscure reason just won't last through the P-11 schedule... It now sits nicely on a shelf, awaiting further investigations. But still, these are some really nice engines!)

My latest build, still to be completed, is fitted with an Ys170. Why? Well... After some years of using YS-engines, I have 4 of these jewles. I also have approx.100L of Methanol, 30L Nitro and loads of oil..
The question was then; Do I want to invest BIG $$ on converting to electrics now, or do I want to use the engines and fuel I already have? That is the sole reason for me chosing IC on my latest build. If I was to buy everything new anyways, I would absolutely go electric!!
Many of my fellow F3A-pilots fly electric, and the amount of power, braking etc is awsome... Only minor "hickup" is the charging, but that seems to be OK as well.

So, if you are buying everything "from scratch", I would not hesitate one second - choose EL-power. But I would invest an extra $ on the equipment and buy from the top shelf.. Usually, one gets what one pays for..
I would have to reconsider if a 2-cycle powerhouse similar to the 140RX came on the market that could perform on the same level as the Ys170/Pletty/axi etc!

No one wants to share what they fly or use?

Everything used last EC:
http://www.f3a-ec.at/pdf/Fertige%20PDF.ZIP

Mike/Wagen ... Nope not pulling too many amps. I am running the 5S 20C 4,900 mAh packs on my Wind 110. I got a wattmeter and only pull about 70A WOT. After each flight I put back in no more than 3,500 mAh. Bloated after 10 cycles. The Turnigy are 30C 4S 2,500 in my Sebart SU29-30 ... pulls only 50A WOT. It bloated after 4 cycles. I only put back in about 2,000 mAh. That is why I say you guys are LUCKY! Most people using it here have bloating issues. Flight Power packs are pretty good now, the batch from about 2 years back is much better, no more bloating issues compared with the batch before that.

I have all sorts of planes and helicopters but for pattern I have a Sebart WindS 110E. As far as power system goes, it's setup just like the manual recomends.with a Hacker A50-16L and a Jeti Spin 99 ESC. With that I use an APC 18x12 prop and 2x 4S 5000 Lipos. I fly Sportsman with it.

Well that sucks.... Are you sure the cells are well balanced? If you get one cell in the pack that's lower than the others that one cell can be the one that blows up. Back in the day before we had balance taps my Thunder Power packs would fail in that manor.

Mike ... I assume the chargers will balance it, I use the Flight Power balancer. Everyone uses a so called proper charger with balancing. Maybe its too hot here ... lol!

Personally, I fly glow. But now with reasonable electrics coming into the picture, I'm trying muti blade scale prop flight for my warbirds.

I also like the challenge of getting the combination that yields most out of an electric setup without over amping the system. It gives longer life to components, good performance, and longer flight times.

Oh, not much clean up either. Just put the batteries in a steel box and go.

Steve