Notices
Electric Pattern Aircraft Discuss epowered pattern aircraft in this forum

DS ESC for F3A

Old 06-09-2020, 11:33 AM
  #1  
OhD
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: west hills, CA
Posts: 1,160
Received 8 Likes on 5 Posts
Default DS ESC for F3A

I haven't seen any discussion here on the pros and cons of the DS Electric Speed Controller. It sounds like what I have been hoping for for a long time. I thought that the Hacker system might be the ticket but never heard of anyone trying it. I'd be interested in knowing more about the DS.

Jim O
Old 06-09-2020, 11:40 AM
  #2  
wattsup
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 713
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Hi Jim. Are you asking about the D3 or DS esc? Maybe I've missed something because I am not aware of a DS Electric Speed Controller as it relates to pattern use. Thanks in advance.
Old 06-09-2020, 03:46 PM
  #3  
OhD
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: west hills, CA
Posts: 1,160
Received 8 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by wattsup View Post
Hi Jim. Are you asking about the D3 or DS esc? Maybe I've missed something because I am not aware of a DS Electric Speed Controller as it relates to pattern use. Thanks in advance.
It might officially be D3 Motors and there has been some discussion on the NSRCA list. Sounds as though some were in use at the 2019 WC. It sounds as though they control RPM as a function of throttle stick position and won't let your prop wind up in vertical downlines or slow down on uplines.

Jim
Old 06-09-2020, 04:01 PM
  #4  
ted32776
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Sorrento, Florida
Posts: 131
Likes: 0
Received 10 Likes on 9 Posts
Default

Jim is correct on the D3. Adam is very helpful and can answer any questions you might have. The unit is very well made and probably the lightest weight anywhere. He will set the specs to your motor/prop setup. It is used by a couple of the Japanese team pilots and numerous European contestants. My experience with Adam was first rate and costs/shipping were very reasonable. You can reach him at [email protected]
Old 06-09-2020, 05:11 PM
  #5  
ltc
My Feedback: (3)
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Mendon, MA
Posts: 1,429
Likes: 0
Received 17 Likes on 16 Posts
Default

Jason (down under) sells these units and has 6 different (motor type) variants shown on his website
https://www.precisionaeroproducts.co...ed-control-esc
Old 06-10-2020, 01:45 PM
  #6  
can773
My Feedback: (1)
 
can773's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 2,286
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Hi Jim,

Yes it is the D3 controller, Adam Debowski produces them out of Poland. There were a few in use at the WC in 2019, Onda from the Japanese team was using it, I was using it, as well as a number of others from a number of European countries. It definitely gained a lot of popularity during that event. I only got it about 3 weeks before leaving for the WC, so I had limited time to set it up, but I do think it was a benefit for me at the WC.

Adam really developed it initially for his D3 contra systems which has two motors to drive the props, and then adopted it to operate for various other drive setups. Its a pretty simple unit, there is no programming, you need to order it specific for your motor. To set it up you just need to ensure that full throttle is 2000 us pulse output from the Rx, and arming is 1000 us pulse output. Beyond that all the setup is in your transmitter tcurve, and the esc essentially just trys to hit a target rpm based on the pulse input it gets from the rx. RPM is determined from the motor commutation rate as I understand it. Its not an instant response, it does take a short time for the esc to hone the rpm, but it is very good and provides a more exact control of your motor than you are used to. Adam mentioned he has a slightly slower response just to ensure the esc does not hunt for the rpm. Due to this the setup takes a bit of getting used to, as the motor wont unload so you need to be fairly deliberate in your adjustments. Small tcurve changes of a couple hundred rpm at your cruise or idle position has a noticeable impact to the flight speed/braking.

People I have spoken to that have used them and taken the time to get adjusted to it really like them. It does take a bit of time though, the first few flights you may find you are flying too slow because you are used to the reduced braking and motor unloading you get with a normal esc.

The only negative is that if you want to run a different motor you can't and you either need to buy a new one or send it back to Adam to get reprogrammed. Otherwise there is not much to find wrong with it, they are light (~80g), and lower cost than the Jeti's. Since they are tuned for a specific motor as long as you stick with that motor there is no need for any programming anyways.

Chad
Old 06-11-2020, 11:29 AM
  #7  
FLYERSG
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: LaVista, NE
Posts: 78
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

I haven't come across any negative reports on this ESC. However, those considering giving the D3 a try should note that 1) there is no BEC so primary and backup power for equipment will be needed, and 2) the ESC must be mounted in direct air flow to keep from burning up. I believe I read (unfortunately, can't find the reference) that without direct airflow/cooling, the unit can burn up at 50 amps. With adequate cooling, it's a 120 amp speed controller.
Old 06-11-2020, 12:35 PM
  #8  
wattsup
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 713
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Default


Manual for ESC with F3A Governor V1.2
FLYERSG, You read that sentence at the end of the first paragraph in the instruction "Manuel for ESC with F3A Governor V1.2". This set of instructions was written by Adam DeBowski and was posted at the bottom of an ad on Precision Aero Products website approximately 1 month ago. At that time, the original price for the unit was $169 USD and has since been raised to $229 USD! Thanks for the additional information, it helped me make up my mind.

Last edited by wattsup; 06-11-2020 at 02:16 PM. Reason: Clarification
Old 06-12-2020, 07:17 AM
  #9  
OhD
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: west hills, CA
Posts: 1,160
Received 8 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Thanks guys. It sounds like a step in the right direction. I thought the Hacker version would take off but it never did. I'm going to have to give it a try.

Jim O
Old 06-12-2020, 07:40 AM
  #10  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 426
Received 24 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

I'm gonna give one a try. I am curious if the governor helps me with the up and down line speed consistency. Seems popular in Europe. I just hope it holds up in the Texas heat...lol

Gary
Old 06-12-2020, 07:42 AM
  #11  
big_G
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Hutto, TX
Posts: 426
Received 24 Likes on 15 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by OhD View Post
Thanks guys. It sounds like a step in the right direction. I thought the Hacker version would take off but it never did. I'm going to have to give it a try.

Jim O
What powerplant are you using?
Old 06-13-2020, 09:47 AM
  #12  
OhD
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: west hills, CA
Posts: 1,160
Received 8 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by big_G View Post
What powerplant are you using?
That could be a problem. I have three Contra V3s with Neu F3A Motors. Kind of obsolete stuff. I'm hoping they have firmware for that combination.

Jim O
Old 06-13-2020, 04:22 PM
  #13  
PeterP
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brisbane, AUSTRALIA
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

It wont be a problem Jim, Just tell Adam the KV of the motor, pole count and the gear ratio of the drive and he will do all the clever stuff in the firmware for you.


Old 07-27-2021, 05:43 PM
  #14  
wattsup
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 713
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

While attending the Nats last week, I had an interesting conversation about the D3 esc. From what I understand, there are some pattern flyers using the D3 in a different way them recommended. Evidently some have found a way to bypass the use of the conditions/3 way switch and just fly the D3 in a manner similar to any of the esc's we all currently use. I have never used the D3 so I really could not contribute to the conversation. For those who do have experience with the D3, is this possible? IMHO, it would make the set-up and use of the D3 much easier.
Old 07-28-2021, 10:28 AM
  #15  
myckey
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Banbury, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by wattsup View Post
While attending the Nats last week, I had an interesting conversation about the D3 esc. From what I understand, there are some pattern flyers using the D3 in a different way them recommended. Evidently some have found a way to bypass the use of the conditions/3 way switch and just fly the D3 in a manner similar to any of the esc's we all currently use. I have never used the D3 so I really could not contribute to the conversation. For those who do have experience with the D3, is this possible? IMHO, it would make the set-up and use of the D3 much easier.
You can use it just like any other ESC if that is what you want to do, nothing at all to bypass, but it's a lot better to follow the set up guide because the braking on a closed throttle is likely to be far to high so you would likely need to have very fine throttle control, that's the only purpose of having different throttle curves or flight conditions.

M
Old 07-28-2021, 11:32 AM
  #16  
wattsup
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 713
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

Hi myckey. So based on your response as I understand it, you can use the D3 without the 3 throttle curves/conditions but to control the brake, it's best to use them to be better able to "fine tune" the combination of both throttle and brake. Am I correct? Thanks for your explanation.
Old 07-28-2021, 11:45 AM
  #17  
myckey
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Banbury, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

That's correct, it will work like any other ESC except that you can't programme it so the brake that it comes with can't be adjusted, if you look at the manual further up the page there are only really two conditions, cruise and spin, because in the cruise mode the motor is still pulling so it won't go into a spin easily like that, equally the brake is so hard that your downline in the spin condition especially when using a contra will be too slow. If you are flying of grass you don't need a landing condition the spin one is fine for landing although you do need to get the the throttle channel back to -100 or it won't arm and of course you will need that to stop the motor as well at the end of the flight.

So if you have far better throttle control than I posses then you could in theory do all of that with great throttle control.

Don't forget this ESC works like a heli ESC it isn't power you are controlling with the throttle stick it's the RPM of the motor that is being controlled so if you point the nose up the ESC will automatically throttle up as the props come under load to maintain the RPM and likewise it will throttle back and apply brake if you go into a dive to stop the props from accelerating.

I hope that makes sense.

M
Old 07-28-2021, 01:00 PM
  #18  
wattsup
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Franklin, TN
Posts: 713
Received 7 Likes on 6 Posts
Default

M, Now I get it! Your last paragraph made it all very clear. Sometimes it's hard to relate, at least for me, if you have never seen the D3 in action. Up until today, the D3 had only been a concept. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Now to contact Adam.....
Old 07-28-2021, 01:13 PM
  #19  
myckey
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Banbury, UNITED KINGDOM
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Originally Posted by wattsup View Post
M, Now I get it! Your last paragraph made it all very clear. Sometimes it's hard to relate, at least for me, if you have never seen the D3 in action. Up until today, the D3 had only been a concept. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. Now to contact Adam.....
No problem, what you have is a variable governor controlled by the throttle stick, probably easier to think of it that way, a sort of cruise control for your plane is another way to think of it.

Isn't it easier for you to contact Mike? https://www.f3aunlimited.com/powerpl...lers/d3-motors
The following users liked this post:
wattsup (08-03-2021)

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.