AXI 53XX Pattern motor
11-16-2005, 07:16 PM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Hey guys, I,m currently building a Funtana Pro that I,ll be using to practice with. I was initially going to buy a YS160dz for it ,but am now seriously considering this AXI motor. My question is will it provide enough power for unlimited flight sprinkling in some 3d goofing around. Also what type, size of battery packs should be used preferrably Thunder Power as I can get them locally. The plane in question should be 10-11lbs ready to fly. Thanks for any help Dave
11-16-2005, 08:26 PM
#53
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
The AXI F3A motor would be fine for that application. My pattern plane is a pound and a half lighter and it has more than enough power. I don't know how many shops or actual stores stock those sizes of batteries. Most are mail order. the best prices I can find are with Pacific Models in Vancouver BC... also stocks the AXI motors. Try www.rcmodels.ca His prices are good and the turnaround time I pretty quick.
Tom
Tom
11-16-2005, 08:47 PM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Thanks guys, the store that I,m referring to will get them for me and not charge me for any brokerage fees. but having said that rcmodels is in B.C so brokerage is not an issue as they won,t be shipping across the border. The reason I mention this is due to being stung a couple of times by the sometimes not so modelling friendly or consistent customs agency here in Canada. Are the packs listed by Adamg-rcu the right types of packs for this application or will Pacific Models give me the right info if I order everthing as a package? thx Dave
11-16-2005, 09:13 PM
#55
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Give Richard a call at Pacific Models regarding the packs. You are going to want to run the TP 5S4P 5300 mah packs in series for a 10S configuration. He is pretty knowledgable at Pacific Models and will help you choose the right configuration as well as get you right price. He's done right by me...
11-16-2005, 10:16 PM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Obviuosly we can't say enough about Richard at Pacific Models. www.rcmodels.ca
He is more than helpful. He's selling the TP 5s4p 5300's for $300 US I believe. That beat's everyone's price that I've found.
He sells more than he lists on his site. Just ask him for what you need. And tell him Chris and Tom sent ya!!!!
Good luck and let us know what you decide...
Chris
He is more than helpful. He's selling the TP 5s4p 5300's for $300 US I believe. That beat's everyone's price that I've found.
He sells more than he lists on his site. Just ask him for what you need. And tell him Chris and Tom sent ya!!!!
Good luck and let us know what you decide...
Chris
12-16-2005, 06:46 PM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
I am new to the electric pattern airplane and have just built a focus bird with an axi 5318 engine turning a 19x12e prop.
The trouble is I can only get about 4300 rmps out of a 5400mah li poly battery with 6 cells or about 24 volts what is the problem? I am using a jeti 90 amp motorcontrol.
please reply to [email protected] thanks...Harold.
The trouble is I can only get about 4300 rmps out of a 5400mah li poly battery with 6 cells or about 24 volts what is the problem? I am using a jeti 90 amp motorcontrol.
please reply to [email protected] thanks...Harold.
12-16-2005, 08:08 PM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
10 cells would fix the problem. I'll be running 2 of the the 5s4p 5300 packs with the axi f3a motor. Same thing every one else is running basically.
Hope you didn't invest a bunch in batteries.
If you need the bigger batteries call Richard at rcmodels.ca
He doesn't list them but he give's the best price I've found on these packs.
Tell him Chris sent you.
I think they are $300 a pack
Chris
Hope you didn't invest a bunch in batteries.
If you need the bigger batteries call Richard at rcmodels.ca
He doesn't list them but he give's the best price I've found on these packs.
Tell him Chris sent you.
I think they are $300 a pack
Chris
12-17-2005, 08:24 PM
#62
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
You are going to need more volts like everybody else said. When you do that, and IF you don't get enough power for your application, think about trying a bigger prop. You can keep propping those motors up and they just keep churnin' out the power. I am getting 85 amps with my /F3A and a 22x12e prop and have more power than I need. I know of a few /18s that are doing the same, but with that motor I would step it up until you get to about 85 amps, maybe a 21" prop or so (really just guessing). If your batteries and ESC can take it you will be fine, no worries. As it is, you probably will never hit WOT with that set up, so you will only be pulling the high amps during testing.
12-19-2005, 12:40 PM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Hi , have anything complete the table ?
2X TP 5s4p 5300
JETI 90
SEA LEVEL
AXI 5330 F3A PROP RPM AMP
APC 21X13W ?? ??
APC 22X12E ?? ??
APC 20X11E ?? ??
HACKER C50-14XL PROP RPM AMP
APC 21X13W ?? ??
APC 22X12E ?? ??
APC 20X11E ?? ??
THANKS
Vlado
2X TP 5s4p 5300
JETI 90
SEA LEVEL
AXI 5330 F3A PROP RPM AMP
APC 21X13W ?? ??
APC 22X12E ?? ??
APC 20X11E ?? ??
HACKER C50-14XL PROP RPM AMP
APC 21X13W ?? ??
APC 22X12E ?? ??
APC 20X11E ?? ??
THANKS
Vlado
12-19-2005, 01:44 PM
#64
RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Just a word of caution. You don't really want the input power to go up anymore than it has to. Higher current without an increase in output power is bad as it results in more heat. If a system can turn a given prop at some rpm with a lower input current it is better than a system with higher input current.
Jim O
Jim O
ORIGINAL: ExFokkerFlyer
You are going to need more volts like everybody else said. When you do that, and IF you don't get enough power for your application, think about trying a bigger prop. You can keep propping those motors up and they just keep churnin' out the power. I am getting 85 amps with my /F3A and a 22x12e prop and have more power than I need. I know of a few /18s that are doing the same, but with that motor I would step it up until you get to about 85 amps, maybe a 21" prop or so (really just guessing). If your batteries and ESC can take it you will be fine, no worries. As it is, you probably will never hit WOT with that set up, so you will only be pulling the high amps during testing.
You are going to need more volts like everybody else said. When you do that, and IF you don't get enough power for your application, think about trying a bigger prop. You can keep propping those motors up and they just keep churnin' out the power. I am getting 85 amps with my /F3A and a 22x12e prop and have more power than I need. I know of a few /18s that are doing the same, but with that motor I would step it up until you get to about 85 amps, maybe a 21" prop or so (really just guessing). If your batteries and ESC can take it you will be fine, no worries. As it is, you probably will never hit WOT with that set up, so you will only be pulling the high amps during testing.
12-19-2005, 01:44 PM
#65
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
I am using TP 5s3p 6000 Prolites, but the numbers should be comparable. With my /F3A and a 22x12e I got 5800 RPM and 85 amps.
Jim - that is a very good point and something to watch out for. I think though, and I have some experience with these motors, that people tend to under prop the AXIs. And at least with the /18 and the /F3A I shoot for about 85 amps with a 90 amp ESC. As long as your batteries are rated properly, TP 5300s or 6000s ProLites, there is no real problem. I haven't had the chance to run the /F3A during summer time, but it does run cooler than my Plettenberg 30-10s in moderate central valley temps. The resultant power with these motors, with these set-ups, is substantial. The current draw for the flight is on par with a Hacker set up, and the temperatures of the motor, batteries, and ESC after the flight are well within limits. Actually, the batteries come back cooler than their optimum operating temp of about 115-125. FWIW.
Jim - that is a very good point and something to watch out for. I think though, and I have some experience with these motors, that people tend to under prop the AXIs. And at least with the /18 and the /F3A I shoot for about 85 amps with a 90 amp ESC. As long as your batteries are rated properly, TP 5300s or 6000s ProLites, there is no real problem. I haven't had the chance to run the /F3A during summer time, but it does run cooler than my Plettenberg 30-10s in moderate central valley temps. The resultant power with these motors, with these set-ups, is substantial. The current draw for the flight is on par with a Hacker set up, and the temperatures of the motor, batteries, and ESC after the flight are well within limits. Actually, the batteries come back cooler than their optimum operating temp of about 115-125. FWIW.
12-19-2005, 04:28 PM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Hi exfokker have you experience with hacker c50 ? because y have beetwen axi 5330/f3a and hacer c50-14xl but i don't know the difference in performance ?
thanks
Vlado
thanks
Vlado
12-19-2005, 04:42 PM
#67
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
I do not own a Hacker, the only electric motors I have any real experience with are AXIs and Plettenbergs. I have flown a friend's Hacker powered plane in a contest (generously donated, thank you Scott), but really don't have enough experience to comment on it's performance. I will say that it was not lacking in any way, and had more than enough power for what I needed. But as far as operating characteristics and the like, I really can't speak to it intelligently. Obviously they have plenty of power because nearly all the top FAI guys are running them... If you fly a Hacker, you won't want for power.
The only reason I'm not running one myself is really the gearbox and associated maintenance required. The AXI set up I have gives me much more power than I need (again, not comparing to the Hacker), more than I had with the Plettenberg at half the cost. The best feature of the AXI besides it's ruggedness is it's cost. I can buy a motor and an ESC for about the cost of a Hacker motor alone. It's not the most important thing, but it is a sizable difference.
And actually Pacific Models, www.rcmodels.ca, has a Christmas Sale going on all AXI motors and has the 5330's /18,/24, and /F3A for $189.94. That's a pretty awesome deal!
Tom
The only reason I'm not running one myself is really the gearbox and associated maintenance required. The AXI set up I have gives me much more power than I need (again, not comparing to the Hacker), more than I had with the Plettenberg at half the cost. The best feature of the AXI besides it's ruggedness is it's cost. I can buy a motor and an ESC for about the cost of a Hacker motor alone. It's not the most important thing, but it is a sizable difference.
And actually Pacific Models, www.rcmodels.ca, has a Christmas Sale going on all AXI motors and has the 5330's /18,/24, and /F3A for $189.94. That's a pretty awesome deal!
Tom
12-19-2005, 06:37 PM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Oh c'mon focker, I mean fokker. Admit it. It's got more power than the Hacker? C'mon, I dare ya.
Just kidding Tom. Anywho, I am about to order my batteries have my F3A in the air around the new year.
Just kidding Tom. Anywho, I am about to order my batteries have my F3A in the air around the new year.
12-20-2005, 04:00 AM
#70
RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
I really would like to believe that the AXI is more powerful than the Hacker but: My 13XL with 2 deg advance on an OPTO 90 with Flightpower 10s3P 6450mAh cells turns a 22 x 12E at 6000 dead and 75Amps. Same motor turns a 21 x 14E at 6000 and 71A and a 21 x 13WE at 6000 and 65A.
I want to go to direct drive but I don't believe the AXI is the motor to do it with - please prove me wrong!
Malcolm
I want to go to direct drive but I don't believe the AXI is the motor to do it with - please prove me wrong!
Malcolm
12-20-2005, 08:27 AM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Malcolm , i have between hacker and axi and i think like you, the hacker have around 500rpm more than axi with the same prop i don't know how much significant is on F3A, what about the hacker gear box ? have you any problem ?
Vlado
Vlado
12-20-2005, 09:11 AM
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RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
Malcolm,
It is hard to believe and most people probably won't believe it even when they do see it as Hacker seems to have everyone in a hypnosis IMO. Most Hacker people don't want to believe that there is another option out there IMO. Tom is flying a heavy Impact which used to struggle with the Pletty over the top. Now he says that in a square verticle 8 he's using 3/4 throttle at the most in the uplines. It's very comparable. 500 rpm more is a number that's taken on the ground and doesn't mean much if you don't have to use but 3/4 throttle at the most in the air. The same goes for the amp draw. If we have 85 amps max, which Hacker folk think is high understandably in comparison, it's no big deal as that's a number taken at full throttle on the ground. If it's not used in the air the draw isn't that much.
My car will probably tach out at 8000 rpm, but I don't use it.
And by the way, in the states the 13 xl doesn't cut it unless your plane is super light. According to a very highly qualified Hacker person that I know. Most here use the 14 and 5s4p 5300's. Great combo.
If you were to give the Axi half a chance you may be suprised.
The Hacker is a super motor and I'm not trying to say it's not. Just saying that for those of us who like to be different, there's a very very good alternative out there with no maintenance issues. The gearbox scares alot of people away. As do the Lithiums.
I will post a video when I get my Eclipse done. Good or bad I will post a video.
I can't wait.
How's the weather over there? Crappy and rainy here in California lately. Can't even fly a foamy.
Chris
It is hard to believe and most people probably won't believe it even when they do see it as Hacker seems to have everyone in a hypnosis IMO. Most Hacker people don't want to believe that there is another option out there IMO. Tom is flying a heavy Impact which used to struggle with the Pletty over the top. Now he says that in a square verticle 8 he's using 3/4 throttle at the most in the uplines. It's very comparable. 500 rpm more is a number that's taken on the ground and doesn't mean much if you don't have to use but 3/4 throttle at the most in the air. The same goes for the amp draw. If we have 85 amps max, which Hacker folk think is high understandably in comparison, it's no big deal as that's a number taken at full throttle on the ground. If it's not used in the air the draw isn't that much.
My car will probably tach out at 8000 rpm, but I don't use it.
And by the way, in the states the 13 xl doesn't cut it unless your plane is super light. According to a very highly qualified Hacker person that I know. Most here use the 14 and 5s4p 5300's. Great combo.
If you were to give the Axi half a chance you may be suprised.
The Hacker is a super motor and I'm not trying to say it's not. Just saying that for those of us who like to be different, there's a very very good alternative out there with no maintenance issues. The gearbox scares alot of people away. As do the Lithiums.
I will post a video when I get my Eclipse done. Good or bad I will post a video.
I can't wait.
How's the weather over there? Crappy and rainy here in California lately. Can't even fly a foamy.
Chris
12-20-2005, 10:32 AM
#74
RE: AXI 53XX Pattern motor
ORIGINAL: vlado
Hi Chirs , i listen the axi have not enought power for F3A
Vlado
Hi Chirs , i listen the axi have not enought power for F3A
Vlado
Beyond that, Plett and Hacker are more expensive, but lighter and more efficient (ie: more of your input watts actually go to the prop), the Axi is much cheaper but heavier and less efficient which is why you see them pulling huge amps.
I am not getting into a motor war, look at the options and see what fits for you, all will work just fine.
For reference, my Plett 30-10 will spin a 21x13W at 5900 rpm and 61A, and is more power than is needed for flying any (P or F) of the FAI sequences. Temperatures are between 130-150F, even when 90F+ outside.
As to pulling 85A from 5300's....I will be curious to see how many cycles are recorded out of those packs vs. ones ran at below their max continuous rating of 70A. I personally would never recommend to anyone to run a setup that the peak static current is beyond the max continuous rating of the pack....having done that and failed packs I wont ever do it again
Some interesting reading,
Why Limiting Throttle Will Not Protect Batteries in Systems that are Propped for "Over the Limits" of the Battery
Reprinted with Permission of Castle Creations
Welcome to the first of a series of articles exploring some of the “black science” issues of R/C, where we explain in understandable terms some of the most common technical questions, as well as dispel some of the common myths surrounding R/C electronics.
This time we explore one of the most common misconceptions, and least understood important concepts in electric R/C. Quite often we see posted online, or within conversations with customers, the fact that they have their power systems propped for “over the limits” of their batteries, ESC’s, and motors, but it’s “OK” because they never actually use full throttle. This is 100% incorrect, and the explanation of why, involves a simplified example of how a speed controller works.
We’ll break down an ESC’s operation into blocks of one second for simplicity. We see when the ESC is at full throttle, it is as close to an “open circuit” as possible between the battery and motor, and “on” for the full one-second block of time, and drawing full throttle current. Each of these blocks of time stream together, and for a hypothetical example – you read 15 amps on your whattmeter at full throttle. Also for example, you are using a 1050Mah Apogee lipo pack (11 amps of output capability), and a Phoenix 10 controller. At ¾ throttle you read 10 amps, and the misconception is, that if you just stay below ¾ throttle (or lower the top endpoint on your throttle channel) then everything is OK. What is REALLY happening, is when you are at ¾ throttle, there is ¾ of every second that the ESC is “on”, and the last ¼ of every second it is “off”. The whattmeter averages the current readings it’s getting, and is showing you an average current. Furthermore – if we are at 10% throttle, then the ESC is “on” for 1/10 th of a second, and “off” for the remaining 9/10 ths of a second. Regardless of how long per second it is “off” or “on”, when it is “on”, it is drawing full throttle current from the batteries, through the controller, and into the motor. So, essentially in an everyday application, you are taxing your batteries, ESC, and motor at full throttle amperage the entire time the system is running, regardless of throttle level. With continued use, the above combination will at best most certainly reduce the life span of the lipo pack, the ESC, and the motor as well.
What you’ll find pleasantly surprising is, if you have a set-up as above, and simply prop down to make your full throttle current 11 amps to bring it “within spec” for all the components, you’ll end up with the following: A cooler running (more efficient and longer life) motor, more rpm’s to the prop (due to the increased voltage from a happy pack) with no observable loss in power, a lower temperature ESC (more BEC capacity and longer life), and much longer flight times to boot.
So the next time you put together a power system – make sure to prop the system to be within specs on all components of your power system while at full throttle, and enjoy all the longevity and other benefits that come from today’s modern equipment. The days of having to “push everything beyond the envelope” just to get acceptable performance are over – off the shelf components used within specs are absolutely capable of giving you more power than you’ll ever need.
Shawn Palmer
Marketing/Support Director
Reprinted with Permission of Castle Creations
Welcome to the first of a series of articles exploring some of the “black science” issues of R/C, where we explain in understandable terms some of the most common technical questions, as well as dispel some of the common myths surrounding R/C electronics.
This time we explore one of the most common misconceptions, and least understood important concepts in electric R/C. Quite often we see posted online, or within conversations with customers, the fact that they have their power systems propped for “over the limits” of their batteries, ESC’s, and motors, but it’s “OK” because they never actually use full throttle. This is 100% incorrect, and the explanation of why, involves a simplified example of how a speed controller works.
We’ll break down an ESC’s operation into blocks of one second for simplicity. We see when the ESC is at full throttle, it is as close to an “open circuit” as possible between the battery and motor, and “on” for the full one-second block of time, and drawing full throttle current. Each of these blocks of time stream together, and for a hypothetical example – you read 15 amps on your whattmeter at full throttle. Also for example, you are using a 1050Mah Apogee lipo pack (11 amps of output capability), and a Phoenix 10 controller. At ¾ throttle you read 10 amps, and the misconception is, that if you just stay below ¾ throttle (or lower the top endpoint on your throttle channel) then everything is OK. What is REALLY happening, is when you are at ¾ throttle, there is ¾ of every second that the ESC is “on”, and the last ¼ of every second it is “off”. The whattmeter averages the current readings it’s getting, and is showing you an average current. Furthermore – if we are at 10% throttle, then the ESC is “on” for 1/10 th of a second, and “off” for the remaining 9/10 ths of a second. Regardless of how long per second it is “off” or “on”, when it is “on”, it is drawing full throttle current from the batteries, through the controller, and into the motor. So, essentially in an everyday application, you are taxing your batteries, ESC, and motor at full throttle amperage the entire time the system is running, regardless of throttle level. With continued use, the above combination will at best most certainly reduce the life span of the lipo pack, the ESC, and the motor as well.
What you’ll find pleasantly surprising is, if you have a set-up as above, and simply prop down to make your full throttle current 11 amps to bring it “within spec” for all the components, you’ll end up with the following: A cooler running (more efficient and longer life) motor, more rpm’s to the prop (due to the increased voltage from a happy pack) with no observable loss in power, a lower temperature ESC (more BEC capacity and longer life), and much longer flight times to boot.
So the next time you put together a power system – make sure to prop the system to be within specs on all components of your power system while at full throttle, and enjoy all the longevity and other benefits that come from today’s modern equipment. The days of having to “push everything beyond the envelope” just to get acceptable performance are over – off the shelf components used within specs are absolutely capable of giving you more power than you’ll ever need.
Shawn Palmer
Marketing/Support Director
