RC_Pattern_Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

I am looking for an AXI 5330/FAI motor, rcamodels has none in stock and Hobby-Lobby doesn't list it yet. Anyone know where to get one??


Thanks in advance.

Chuck Hochhalter

ExFokkerFlyer

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The only place I know to get one is through Pacific Models (www.rcmodels.ca). No, they don't have them in stock, but I think they will be getting some in soon. I have one last one on order and was told to expect it in the middle of this month. There are a few others that will order them, but only in quantities of five or more.

Good motor, you'll enjoy it if you go that route.

Jeff Pfeifer

My Feedback: (4)

Chuck,
Call Hobby Lobby, they can help you. It is not listed on the site, but available.

JP

RC_Pattern_Flyer

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Thanks for the tips guys...

Chuck

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Maybe hobby lobby is willing to help now. That's good. They knew nothing about them and weren't willing to help a few months ago. Rcmodels matches their price and actually beat it when I ordered mine. And when Tom and I ordered ours no one else even knew they existed except one place in Florida. But they would only order in 5's.
I got ahold of Richard at pacific models, www.rcmodels.ca and he actually got me the f3a motor and a jeti 90 esc for the same price that hobby lobby was selling the other 5330's. Plus I got free shipping and had it within a week. He was ordering from axi and I caught him at the right time. Now I get great service from him every time I order. I am more than pleased with how hard he has worked to gain me as a customer. I am not sponsered by him, don't get me wrong. Just a very happy customer several times over.
Give him a call if you want, tell him Chris sent ya and you want an f3a. I've sent a few his way and they have also been pleased. Hobby Lobby is fine, don't get me wrong. I just got a couple of foamies from them. I get all my axi's and jeti's from pacific.
Good luck to you. And glad to see that you're wanting to get the axi.
Let us know how your new axi turns out.
Chris

RC_Pattern_Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

I will call around. I prefer to help the 'little' guy before the larger corps... i order all my little stuff through my local to keep him around.

I am going to be building an Inisight again, similar to the one in the pattern forum and it should weigh around 10 with batts and all i hope.

more as it actually happens.

Chuck

exverbrenner

hi chuck!
i'm not sure if the 5330/f3a is the way to go, i'd say that depends on the airplane. i'm flying a fly-fan obsession weighting TOW less than 10 lbs on a 5330/18, a PHX110HV and just 10S1P3700. with this small load i only need a 19x12 APC/E cut down to 18,5. you will fly P05 on less than 3000 mAh with this combination, unless you just want to punch holes in the air...anyway, good choice, the AXI, cause it's one F3A powerplant which DOESNT sound like the 30 y/o mixer in mom's kitchen

cheers,
roger

RC_Pattern_Flyer

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How many amps are you pulling with you combo Roger? This is interesting info as i will not be flying P or F anything for a while. I am in the intermediate class with the intention of flying at the Nats and then moving into advanced. I am always looking for new options and this may be one of them. Which battery are you flying?

I think i could potentially build a 9lb 7 oz electric plane to compete with. TOW.

I want to push the limits but not with batteries. Grin.

Chuck

PatternPilot

My Feedback: (58)

Hi chuck,

I'm using the 5330/18 motor with the CC HV85 and the CC HV110 and the APC E 18x12 prop with a 10s2p pack and drawing 68-69 amps turning 6500 rpms and putting out 2200 watts on a 11 lbs plane. A friend of mine Dan Landis is running the same and just did some testing with the FAI and he did see some increased power but no numbers yet..

RC_Pattern_Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

I "think" i can get away with the 5330/18, HV85, 10s1p new EVO cells 3700 MAH, APC 17x12 E. or even 17X10 E

I am curious how this setup would compare to my os 160 running the APC 17x12.

I am going to use carbon laminate on my next Insight which will be the electric for all the formers and motor mount. Where did you get yours and how does the weight compare?

Thanks again everyone for your input.

i have chatted with Danny L. and am heavily leaning towards his setup but if i can use the 10s1p packs i can save 100 bucks per stick.

We shall see how the airframe comes out before i decide on batteries in the end but the motor of choice is the 5330/18 or FAI

Chuck

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Hey Chuck.
Very glad to hear your looking in the Axi direction. They really do produce a great quality motor.
I know you have alot of choices to make right now and I also know that they aren't easy choices.
One thing I would consider. I notice you say how would it compare to your os with the 17x12. I am also running an os 140rx with either a 17x13 or a 15.5x12 4 blade, so I understand your thinking.
The reason I am went with the F3A motor was, well first off, because I love the axi. Second, because everyone seems to think they won't work. Third, because I want the slower speed of the Hacker or any other electric spinning the big prop (22x12 or 21x13). If the speed of the electric isn't what your looking for then by all means I would recommend a 18 (not that I have run one, don't get me wrong), with a smaller prop. It's a great alternative to get into the electric scene. Now, there are alot of people on the forums that will say alot of things about the Axi's. Take a small handfull seriously. As most have not run them and only go by the figures that their calculations tell them, which are generally not accurate on any motor. There are other alternatives to the thunder power batteries coming out that can handle more amps with ease. Trust me on this. They're not cheap either though. Electrics aren't.
I do think the 18 would be enough for Intermediate and maybe even Advanced. So you may be safe. Ask your self though, if you are planning on sticking with the electrics. As the Axi will last you a long long time and can be transferred from plane to plane, as with any other motor. But when you (and you will ) get into Masters and Fai then you will need the Fai motor anyway. Of course at the great prices that they are at, most can afford to upgrade anyway.
Don't take me wrong here Chuck. I'm not trying to influence you. Just trying to offer some insight as I know the choices are difficult.
If you want to see the power of an 18, talk to Tom. Exfokkerflyer. He may just show you the video of his dads 16 or 17 pnd Yak taking off into a very impressive vertical. Plenty of power.
I would like to say that I wouldn't skimp on the batteries as they are very important. And by the time you have your plane built the new batteries just may be out.
Good luck with your choice and let us know as we are all in this thread for a reason.
As for carbon products, look here http://www.acp-composites.com/acp-lp.htm
Chris

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Just test flew my Electric Focus this afternoon. Running an AXI 5330/F3A with TP 6000's 10s3p, and an APC 20x13. Amps this afternoon were about 60, but that was with a not so fresh pack, expect that number to jump a bit maybe to 65-67 will test again tomorrow. Didn't get an RPM figure yet. See the other threads on this motor for the numbers with a 22x12 prop.

Weight is a tad over 11 lbs as it sits, switching to 5300's will bring it under the limit.

For Intermediate and Advanced you should be fine with those Flight Power packs. Make sure you set a time when flying and stick to it. Start out at three or four minutes and charge your packs and see what you put in. From there, work your way up till you put in about 25-2700 and keep it at that time and the packs should be fine. Careful not to drain them too low, repeated discharges over 80% will damage them. So if you keep the flights short you'll be okay.

I saw the ads for those new packs today and has got me thinking... may have to try a set. Would be interesting to see how much battery you would use in a flight with a 10 oz lighter plane. Could you do the Masters and FAI pattern with roughly 2800 mah out of 3700? Maybe, sounds like other guys are doing just that. Might not want to put 200 flights in a year practicing with them, but maybe for contests? Probably tight, but I'd be interested to hear if there are guys doing this and how much power they are using per flight.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

P-07 seems to use more battery than P-05, I think you would be pushing a 3700 pack right to the limit especially if it ever gets windy.

F-07 no problem, can be done for less than 3000 mah.

There is a very real chance in the next rules change that the prelim sequences will be shortened to the length of the final sequences....then 4000 mah packs wont be an issue

That being said after flying a 10.25 lb plane this year I dont think I want one any lighter Also your total flight time will need to be restricted to 9 ish minutes for a 4000 mah pack with an 80% discharge. For 11 minutes I am pulling more than 4000 out of my packs.

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Chad, is that a dig at my heavy airplanes??? Just kidding... that's pretty light though, I agree the planes can be too light, especially on windy days.

Flew the Focus some today. And because it is so much lighter than my usual mount, a smaller prop is being used now (20x13). I was able to fly for 9 minutes, including the AMA Masters sequence, for about 2700 mah. Not too shabby really. Of course it was light winds and cool temperatures... and obviously much too early in the trimming process to know if I will continue to use that prop and also fly the speed that I did... but with those caveats in mind, I think it's possible to use those 3700s and be under the eighty percent. Weight would be just about 10.5. Might be an interesting experiment.

can773

My Feedback: (1)

No dig

From my spreadsheet I got an average of 23A discharge over 400 flights, you got 18A on that flight thats low!!! To correctly complete P-07 you are going to push 9.5 minutes unless you fly smaller than the box @ 160m

So that works out to 3641 mAh, not saying it cannot be done, but I think you will find that the packs are going to get pushed on occasion. Compared to the 5300's you are only saving 1ish oz/pack for 1.5Ah capacity loss...however they are quite a bit cheaper than the 5300's. I think long term the 5300's would last longer because of the lower depth of discharge so that would also need to be known to get a really good idea of which way is better to go!

Jason and Chip ran 5s2p 4200's (built on the 2100 prolites) in France (only in F though)...that would be another option...a bit lighter and about $65 a pack cheaper. I can only assume they didnt use them in P because of capacity reasons. I use the 2100's in my Trex and they seem to put out like the 1320's do....maybe better

All this really pertains to FAI though...lower classes and shorter sequences should be no problem on the smaller packs

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Chad,
What prop are your figures based on for the Axi F3A?
What altitude are you at also?

I myself have the 5300's but would like to prove that there are other alternatives so would be willing to try other packs such as the one's discussed.
Chris

can773

My Feedback: (1)

Between my two Plett's the average discharge values were nearly identical, despite the fact that the 30 was way more power than the 25...props didnt change it much either. I thought it would change but it didnt. I think you will find that those flying FAI hit similar numbers for average draw in flight. Between the three of us here who kept track of lots of flights that low 20A number was very consistent...so thats three different styles of flying, 3 different models, and two different motors Wind really changed it...would usually go up 2-4A average on windy days.

I suspect if I flew the Hacker, Axi, Cyclon....my average discharge would be very close in all cases.....it takes a certain amount of energy to fly a plane in a certain manner...the drive systems efficiency should in theory only affect the actual energy required. Since there is a minimum energy required to perform the elements of a sequence that would be the least discharge that could be accomplished!

One way to look at it, uplines and downlines are roughly equal time....one at 0 and one at say 65A....so average is 32.5A....cruise power is used lets say 50% of the rest of the time....and is likely around 15-18A (one could roughly get this with a quick ground test)...split the difference between that and you have 23A The average discharge is going to determine how much capacity you need to fly X amount of time....so its a number that would be nice to really nail down for whatever setup you are running.

Altitude...I am at 3500', but often the density altitude is 6000+.....dropping in altitude decreases my flight time for the same amount of discharge. I usually shorten flights up 30 seconds when at sea level....or discharge more

I have spent a lot of time looking for other packs, what I continuously find are cheaper batteries, batteries with more discharge rating....but never ones that are as light or lighter for equal capacity At least not yet I know they work, I know I can get at least 70 cycles out of them in my setup So I plan to leave the R&D to someone else on batteries Our good flying season is 4 months if we are lucky....so there is precious little time to experiment

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I won't be playing with P-07 just yet. I may enter FAI at a contest or two this year just for kicks, maybe at one of the one day contests, but for the most part I will be flying Masters. If I do that, I'll throw in one of my 6000 sets, but for right now it's not a concern. The plane flys fine with what it has, but the idea of using a pack just big enough for what you actually use is interesting.

For todays flights, I put my battery numbers into a spreadsheet as well to figure out average draw. I flew 6 flights and the average duration was 8.3 minutes and the average draw from the batts was 2246 mah. Not by a long shot is this a number to hang your hat on, half of those flights were simply trimming flights with only partial sequences flown. But on the other three, the entire Masters sequence was flown. I'm lugging around 6 amp packs and just barely using them! Great for longevity, they aren't even breathing hard, but why carry all that unused weight?

Hadn't thought about 5s2p 4200s... that's a pretty good idea. The listed weights (yeah I know...) at 10s config. for the Flight power 3700s is 35 oz, the 5s2p 5000 is 44 oz (same weight as TP 5s3p 6000). The 5s4p 5300s (again 10s) are around 39 oz, so there is a sizable difference in weight. But it's all a compromise, and no one solution to every situation...

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

As far as cycles go, my two sets of 5s3p 6000s have 103 and 93 cycles respectively. Still going strong too...

RC_Pattern_Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

well, i just weight my IC insight and with an os 160 it came to 9 lbs 14 oz

i think this "affordable" electric setup with the smaller packs and the /18 motor might be possible.

add a carbon tube and better building skills and i see the light

chuck

can773

My Feedback: (1)

For those flights you are looking at 16.2A average draw....having never flown the Master sequence I am not sure of its requirements It makes sense that you would use less jam in Masters than FAI. My friend bought my old plane and flies Masters with it....I should ask him what he is recharging for a sequence....would be a pretty good comparison since its identical to what I flew all year.

However you are right...using 2500 mAh out of 6000 is a bit low You should fly longer lol! I guess the question is, if you have the room for weight...is 4oz worth 1.5 Ah of flying time and probably, but maybe not! higher life cycle packs? Second question is...do you want to drop in lighter packs for a contest and fly with a lighter plane in competition than you normally practise with?

Hopefully over the years there will be definative answers for all this

patternflyer1

My Feedback: (11)

Chuck,
just take your time and build it light.
Remember, it doesn't need to be as reinforced as a glow plane. You can get it in under weight. I'm sure of it. If I can get my Eclipse in there and Tom can get his Focus in I'm sure you can do it.
Good luck man..

Chad,
Yeah, I'm not sure how they'll last pulling out so much every flight. But for the weight saving, I think it's a great alternative for someone in sporsman through advanced to get into the electrics. I would really like to give them a try and see what they can handle. There are a lot of people that want to get into electric but are worried about price and weight.
The Axi helps on price and maybe these packs can help on weight for those that may want to convert a plane they already have.
I guess we'll see at some point.
Should be interesting, as is this whole learning process that all of us have undertook.
I'm all for trying the new stuff that comes out as long as the numbers are right. I won't just throw my money away on cheap stuff. I hear ya there.
Chris

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Longer flights for me don't necesarily improve anything... so 7-9 minutes flights are about right.

Switching packs for a contest is not necessarily a good idea... except perhaps for the Nats.

An airplane can be too light, and too heavy. You can have too much battery, and not enough. In my case 6000 is likely too much for now, but adequate for FAI. 3700 is too lite for FAI but perhaps good for Advanced or below... Masters it may depend on the application (would work for me... maybe).

There are a lot of choices, and more to come...

ExFokkerFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

Chris, aren't you supposed to be painting your Eclipse instead of posting on here?

can773

My Feedback: (1)

7-8 minutes!! Most guys in France in P-05 were 9.5-9.75 minutes from start of the clock....interesting to note that electrics dont really use up any time starting yet total time is about the same as glow...so they are moving much slower You could fly the F sequence in 8 minutes though....I have yet to fly P-07 in under 10 minutes lol...must address that for next year

I think you are right Advanced and below 3700 is (should be) no problem...Masters, probably do-able as well, 4200 should do it with plenty of reserve....FAI P, 4200 could do it but again pushing it 5300's give you plenty of reserve. Lots of factors though...need more data If FAI reduces the sequence length to the same as F, then 4200's would work for FAI as well....F is simple simon to do on less than 32-3300 mAh.

I think 10.5 lbs is a good target weight for current electric models I dont think there is really a need to be much lighter...the power is excessive in most cases anyways One guy on the Belgian team was at 4.1kg, which is around 9 lbs RTF....he was really working hard in the wind....the plane was so light it just didnt seem to look right when it was flying....really flighty.