Battery longevity
02-22-2006, 12:30 PM
#76
RE: Battery longevity
ORIGINAL: sc204
10 of these cells would weigh about 40.5 oz. I guess a pack (or 2 5S's) will be a bit heavier with wiring, wrapping etc. If their advertising of cycle life of > 500 cycles was a reality at the discharge rates that we use then I would suspect that they would take over market share in the pattern community. Tom is right however that most of us would need to see a track record or a guarantee of so many cycles before spending that much money on an untested product.
Stuart C.
10 of these cells would weigh about 40.5 oz. I guess a pack (or 2 5S's) will be a bit heavier with wiring, wrapping etc. If their advertising of cycle life of > 500 cycles was a reality at the discharge rates that we use then I would suspect that they would take over market share in the pattern community. Tom is right however that most of us would need to see a track record or a guarantee of so many cycles before spending that much money on an untested product.
Stuart C.
To equate (roughly) to running a YS 140/160DZ you only need about 175-200 cycles out of a pack. Tom is starting to get pretty close to that with his 6000's.
Unfortunately it takes forever to get real life results....4 packs at 200 cycles each is 800 flights
Thats a lot of flying, nearly 2 flights a day for an entire year!
02-22-2006, 03:10 PM
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RE: Battery longevity
ORIGINAL: Malcolm H
Sam (Owdlad),
In case you have forgotten you were not the only person competing in F3A iwith an electric model in England last year. Both Steve Burgess and I flew with our Hacker, Flightpower setups in both GBRCAA comps and in the Home International Champs. We also competed in every Scottish F3A contest.
Your Lazulite was impressive, especially in that the battery was cool after a flight BUT I still believe my Hacker setup had it beat in terms of ultimate performance and that was using last years Flightpower Pro 10s3p 6300 mAhr cells which were acknowledged to have poorer voltage stability under load than any of the current best cells. I was pulling 74A on 21 x 14 APCE but can't tell you the voltage and as you know the performance was excellent.
I am about to change to Thunderpower cells to enjoy the weight saving and better voltage stability in a new model but the existing setup was more than competitive. I must also state that I have bought every piece of modelling equipment I have ever used including my batteries.
For the record Sam you really should declare that you are a Kokam sponsored pilot. I'm not suggesting that you would allow this to interfere with the excellent input that you put into this, the GBRCAA and other forums but at least let people have all the facts.
Kind regards
Malcolm Harris
Sam (Owdlad),
In case you have forgotten you were not the only person competing in F3A iwith an electric model in England last year. Both Steve Burgess and I flew with our Hacker, Flightpower setups in both GBRCAA comps and in the Home International Champs. We also competed in every Scottish F3A contest.
Your Lazulite was impressive, especially in that the battery was cool after a flight BUT I still believe my Hacker setup had it beat in terms of ultimate performance and that was using last years Flightpower Pro 10s3p 6300 mAhr cells which were acknowledged to have poorer voltage stability under load than any of the current best cells. I was pulling 74A on 21 x 14 APCE but can't tell you the voltage and as you know the performance was excellent.
I am about to change to Thunderpower cells to enjoy the weight saving and better voltage stability in a new model but the existing setup was more than competitive. I must also state that I have bought every piece of modelling equipment I have ever used including my batteries.
For the record Sam you really should declare that you are a Kokam sponsored pilot. I'm not suggesting that you would allow this to interfere with the excellent input that you put into this, the GBRCAA and other forums but at least let people have all the facts.
Kind regards
Malcolm Harris
Firstly I said England.
Scotland is part of the United Kingdom, The Jocks have their own SAA competition circuit as well you know
. I can't recall Steve flying Electric in England. Yes, I know your a member of the GBRCAA but, the only Comp i can recall you entered was virtually the last one of the season in the good old Republic of Owdlad Land when I had my Lazulite written off
! This couldn't be really classed as a compThe triple crown (home International) was held on the Isle on Man(Not in England)
Secondly
I do Fly Demo for Aurorra as Mike Redmond is my good friend.
When I Decided to Switch to Electric F3a. Aurorra made it perfectly clear that I wouldn't receive any form of sponsorship, the reason being it sends out the wrong signal to the end user.
Speaking from experience (Flying on the Electric Demo Circuit) The batteries that stood head and shoulders above the rest were, Kokam. I chose Kokam over Thunderpower & Flightpower because I believed that they are the only packs "Fit for Purpose"
I AM NOT A SPONSORED PILOT. But I do have access to test equipment that gives me the ability to make the correct choice of Motor / Prop combination
Performance wise, I thought your Impact looked (appeared) to be struggling for power over the top of the manoeuvres but, that could have been your style of flying (no offence).
When you saw Lazulite fly you was heard to comment "I don't believe it! Sam's done everything opposite to everybody else and yet it works, If not better than everybody else's"
Hope to see you up in good old Sunny Scotland this year for a good old chin wag
Sam
02-22-2006, 03:33 PM
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RE: Battery longevity
ORIGINAL: ExFokkerFlyer
I have been on here touting AXI motors and how much power they have, and how little they cost etc... (and I paid for all mine, small discount that covered shipping costs but very much appreciated) and seriously, how many guys out there have tried them or switched over? Not many... and that's okay, you'll all learn!
Now, if somebody who competed in the FAI or even Masters finals at the Nats last year came out and said the same thing... wouldn't it sink in just a little deeper?
Tom
I have been on here touting AXI motors and how much power they have, and how little they cost etc... (and I paid for all mine, small discount that covered shipping costs but very much appreciated) and seriously, how many guys out there have tried them or switched over? Not many... and that's okay, you'll all learn!
Now, if somebody who competed in the FAI or even Masters finals at the Nats last year came out and said the same thing... wouldn't it sink in just a little deeper?
Tom
Ive tried Pletts(Blew up) Although they are well Engineered, they are overrated & overpriced
Big Owdlad
02-22-2006, 05:26 PM
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RE: Battery longevity
Hi guys !
I've read lots off intresting things... and some less intresting things
Just want to share my experiences with you, I'm a F3A / F3M contest pilot in Belgium, not (yet) in the team, I hope very soon ! I pay for all my equipment, just try to get some intresting prices from distributors.
I have flown OS 2 stroke (140 / 160), YS 4 stroke (140L) and last year I've changed to electric, I flew a ZN Line Oxalys with a Hacker C50XL13 and an Acro90 controller.
I've bought 4 packs 4400 mAh from Tara, a Belgian manufacturer, they were OK, after about 40/50 flights I've borrowed a TP5300 pack from JP Zardini to make a flight... The Tara packs had lost a lot of capacity after +/-45 flights (I have no exact specs). I've ordered 2 TP packs, a 4000 and a 5300 which I flew from september untill now, power is great !!!, incredible, I'm almost never at full throttle, only in verticals in very windy conditions ... The weight of my Oxalys with the 4000 pack is about 4.400 gram ready to fly and about 4.630 with the 5300 pack. Power is really no problem, no idea about consumption. The 4000 is perfect for nice weather conditions but limit for windy conditions, so for contests I prefer to take no risks and fly the 5300, I will fly these this year (ordered 3 new packs which should arrive very soon).
JP Zardini flies the Cyclon motor, as he flies bigger and faster than I do, he needs 5300 packs, the 4000 pack is not enough !!!
Right now I'm finishing a second Oxalys for an electric motor, I have a second Hacker and also a Cyclon but don't know what to put in this plane... ?!
building report here : http://www.docinsane.com/component/o...ewtopic/t,188/
To get back to the topic, the "cheaper" batteries I've bought were going down after about 40 flights, also lots of inbalance between cells, now I have only about 20 flights with the TP batteries, and no difference between the cells, no lose of power untill now. Philippe Marquet and Christiaan Hans, Belgian team members have over 100 flights with their TP packs and they did'n notice any difference ! My choice for 2006 is made, Thunder Power
I've read lots off intresting things... and some less intresting things
Just want to share my experiences with you, I'm a F3A / F3M contest pilot in Belgium, not (yet) in the team, I hope very soon ! I pay for all my equipment, just try to get some intresting prices from distributors.
I have flown OS 2 stroke (140 / 160), YS 4 stroke (140L) and last year I've changed to electric, I flew a ZN Line Oxalys with a Hacker C50XL13 and an Acro90 controller.
I've bought 4 packs 4400 mAh from Tara, a Belgian manufacturer, they were OK, after about 40/50 flights I've borrowed a TP5300 pack from JP Zardini to make a flight... The Tara packs had lost a lot of capacity after +/-45 flights (I have no exact specs). I've ordered 2 TP packs, a 4000 and a 5300 which I flew from september untill now, power is great !!!, incredible, I'm almost never at full throttle, only in verticals in very windy conditions ... The weight of my Oxalys with the 4000 pack is about 4.400 gram ready to fly and about 4.630 with the 5300 pack. Power is really no problem, no idea about consumption. The 4000 is perfect for nice weather conditions but limit for windy conditions, so for contests I prefer to take no risks and fly the 5300, I will fly these this year (ordered 3 new packs which should arrive very soon).
JP Zardini flies the Cyclon motor, as he flies bigger and faster than I do, he needs 5300 packs, the 4000 pack is not enough !!!
Right now I'm finishing a second Oxalys for an electric motor, I have a second Hacker and also a Cyclon but don't know what to put in this plane... ?!
building report here : http://www.docinsane.com/component/o...ewtopic/t,188/
To get back to the topic, the "cheaper" batteries I've bought were going down after about 40 flights, also lots of inbalance between cells, now I have only about 20 flights with the TP batteries, and no difference between the cells, no lose of power untill now. Philippe Marquet and Christiaan Hans, Belgian team members have over 100 flights with their TP packs and they did'n notice any difference ! My choice for 2006 is made, Thunder Power
02-22-2006, 06:03 PM
#80
RE: Battery longevity
ORIGINAL: Big Owdlad
I Concur
Ive tried Pletts(Blew up) Although they are well Engineered, they are overrated & overpriced
Big Owdlad
ORIGINAL: ExFokkerFlyer
I have been on here touting AXI motors and how much power they have, and how little they cost etc... (and I paid for all mine, small discount that covered shipping costs but very much appreciated) and seriously, how many guys out there have tried them or switched over? Not many... and that's okay, you'll all learn!
Now, if somebody who competed in the FAI or even Masters finals at the Nats last year came out and said the same thing... wouldn't it sink in just a little deeper?
Tom
I have been on here touting AXI motors and how much power they have, and how little they cost etc... (and I paid for all mine, small discount that covered shipping costs but very much appreciated) and seriously, how many guys out there have tried them or switched over? Not many... and that's okay, you'll all learn!
Now, if somebody who competed in the FAI or even Masters finals at the Nats last year came out and said the same thing... wouldn't it sink in just a little deeper?
Tom
Ive tried Pletts(Blew up) Although they are well Engineered, they are overrated & overpriced
Big Owdlad
There are many who have great success with them, never blown them up (that would be operator error in my opinion....and goes for any electric motor)....if you were running it at 90A I can understand why...you have to learn to run the equipment within the specs it was designed to run.
02-23-2006, 05:04 AM
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RE: Battery longevity
Hello.
I also have some comments, opinions and questions.
I have been flying electric pattern the last two seasons (2004/2005), a total of approx. 300 flights, mainly TP 6000, but also some Irate 4400 and E-tec 5100.
First of all, I think it is very good that there is an increasing choice for the consumers. Competition between the various manufacturers is always beneficial for the end user, this will increase the quality of the products, as well as lower the prices in the long run. (The latter is much needed.)
Secondly, I see that there is a lot of focus on what is the required battery capacity. In competition, I have never exceeded 4000 mAh drain, so from this point of view, I think any capacity from 4800 mAh is sufficient. (For ME, with my flying style, model weight etc.)
However, 80-90% of all my flights are not competition flights, but practice flights, and for practicing, I think it is much better to have a higher capacity than just enough to take you through the schedule once.
Take an OS 140 as an example. Many people fly this engine with a 20 or 24 oz. tank, while a tank capacity of 12-14 oz. probably would be sufficient to get through the schedule. The larger tank capacity allows them to fly longer, and therefore get more practice time. Some fly through the schedule twice!! (Because they CAN, not because they have to.)
Why would I not want this also for an electric model?
From what I can see, Thunder Power is currently the manufacturer that offers the highest energy density. (Capacity per kg. or lbs.) My TP 6000 batteries weigh 200g less than my E-tec 5100, and allow me to fly 2 minutes longer.
I build my own models, and can therefore control the weight. My current model weighs 4800g (10 lbs 9 oz.). I currently have two sets of TP6000, and for the coming season I will purchase two more battery sets. Based on two years experience I have concluded that for practical flying, you need 4 sets of batteries and two chargers. In competition I usually fly all rounds with only one pack, charging between flights. Only rarely have I needed to take out a second pack.
I am however considering whether the two next packs actually should be TP8000 packs.
These packs weigh approx. 400g more than the 6000’s, and would take the model weight to 5200g, i.e. not competition legal. But would this matter much, as long as I still have two competition legal packs? The weight increase of 400g would still be much less than the weight difference between a full/empty 24 oz. tank. (Many people flying glow have a take off weight of close to 5500 gram.)
Power would certainly not be a problem, even at this weight. (I use one Hacker C50 and one Cyclon F3A.)
Please comment.
Regards,
Magne
I also have some comments, opinions and questions.
I have been flying electric pattern the last two seasons (2004/2005), a total of approx. 300 flights, mainly TP 6000, but also some Irate 4400 and E-tec 5100.
First of all, I think it is very good that there is an increasing choice for the consumers. Competition between the various manufacturers is always beneficial for the end user, this will increase the quality of the products, as well as lower the prices in the long run. (The latter is much needed.)
Secondly, I see that there is a lot of focus on what is the required battery capacity. In competition, I have never exceeded 4000 mAh drain, so from this point of view, I think any capacity from 4800 mAh is sufficient. (For ME, with my flying style, model weight etc.)
However, 80-90% of all my flights are not competition flights, but practice flights, and for practicing, I think it is much better to have a higher capacity than just enough to take you through the schedule once.
Take an OS 140 as an example. Many people fly this engine with a 20 or 24 oz. tank, while a tank capacity of 12-14 oz. probably would be sufficient to get through the schedule. The larger tank capacity allows them to fly longer, and therefore get more practice time. Some fly through the schedule twice!! (Because they CAN, not because they have to.)
Why would I not want this also for an electric model?
From what I can see, Thunder Power is currently the manufacturer that offers the highest energy density. (Capacity per kg. or lbs.) My TP 6000 batteries weigh 200g less than my E-tec 5100, and allow me to fly 2 minutes longer.
I build my own models, and can therefore control the weight. My current model weighs 4800g (10 lbs 9 oz.). I currently have two sets of TP6000, and for the coming season I will purchase two more battery sets. Based on two years experience I have concluded that for practical flying, you need 4 sets of batteries and two chargers. In competition I usually fly all rounds with only one pack, charging between flights. Only rarely have I needed to take out a second pack.
I am however considering whether the two next packs actually should be TP8000 packs.
These packs weigh approx. 400g more than the 6000’s, and would take the model weight to 5200g, i.e. not competition legal. But would this matter much, as long as I still have two competition legal packs? The weight increase of 400g would still be much less than the weight difference between a full/empty 24 oz. tank. (Many people flying glow have a take off weight of close to 5500 gram.)
Power would certainly not be a problem, even at this weight. (I use one Hacker C50 and one Cyclon F3A.)
Please comment.
Regards,
Magne
02-23-2006, 07:21 AM
#82
RE: Battery longevity
Magne,
Your comments re duration agree with my own thoughts. It is definitely an advantage when practicing to be able to re-fly some of the figures while the errors are still fresh. I am in the process of going Thunderpower which will reduce my capacity from 6300 to 5300mAhr and I must admit I don't relish the reduction in duration.
I hadn't actually thought about practicing at a different model weight than in competition but your point about IC weight changes is valid.
I might ballast up my model and fly it back to back without ballast to see if the difference is noticeable.
Congrats on the new model BTW it looks great.
Regards
Malcolm
Your comments re duration agree with my own thoughts. It is definitely an advantage when practicing to be able to re-fly some of the figures while the errors are still fresh. I am in the process of going Thunderpower which will reduce my capacity from 6300 to 5300mAhr and I must admit I don't relish the reduction in duration.
I hadn't actually thought about practicing at a different model weight than in competition but your point about IC weight changes is valid.
I might ballast up my model and fly it back to back without ballast to see if the difference is noticeable.
Congrats on the new model BTW it looks great.
Regards
Malcolm
02-23-2006, 07:36 AM
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RE: Battery longevity
I think you have to be a damned good pilot to fly a plane at 5200 gramm in training and then fly it at 4800 gramm on competition. I already feel a huge difference in flying between the 4000 and the 5300 mAh packs. I believe you should fly the same combination in training and competition flights. Also if you have 4 flight packs and 2 chargers why try to fly 2 schedules with one pack, just change packs in between schedules, with 4 packs the first one will be charged when the last one is empty.... if you take the time to let your equipment cool down a bit between flights. A collegue contest pilot blew at least 5 batteries and 3 Hacker motors last year.... reason ? Some people think that flying electric is just charging batteries and flying without anything more. Wrong, I believe flying electric is even more delicate than flying gas, you need to check batteries, let equipment cool down, grease the gear (only if you have a geared motor of course [8D]) after x flights (I do it every 50 flights - takes 20 minutes), etc etc.
Well this guy had about 10 battery packs and just flew one flight after the other... So I think its better to do shorter flights, 1 schedule and maybe 2 or 3 figures, land, wait 10 minutes to let the motor cool down and do another flight.
I agree with you that power is not a problem but you should try the same plane with take of weight of +/- 4400 gramm.... I can assure you you'll feel a huge difference !!!
What's your opinion about power between the Hacker and the Cyclon ??
I fly an Oxalys with the Hacker now but for my second Oxalys, I have one of each, don't know what to put in...
I love the sound of outrunner, but have the impression that the outrunners have less power ?!
regards,
Bert
Well this guy had about 10 battery packs and just flew one flight after the other... So I think its better to do shorter flights, 1 schedule and maybe 2 or 3 figures, land, wait 10 minutes to let the motor cool down and do another flight.
I agree with you that power is not a problem but you should try the same plane with take of weight of +/- 4400 gramm.... I can assure you you'll feel a huge difference !!!
What's your opinion about power between the Hacker and the Cyclon ??
I fly an Oxalys with the Hacker now but for my second Oxalys, I have one of each, don't know what to put in...
I love the sound of outrunner, but have the impression that the outrunners have less power ?!
regards,
Bert
02-23-2006, 11:34 PM
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RE: Battery longevity
Dear Pattern Gurus,
With some trepidation I will make my first post on this forum. It is not strictly a pattern question but pertains to the battery thread. I am building a 3D/ Freestyle 68' Yak powered by a Plett xtra 30-10. I am starting with a 22x10 prop and based on info from this and other foruns will be pulling around 60-65 Amps max. If the claims of the makers are true, the new 20C/30C packs can supply this current easily from a 3700ma pack (Duralite Evo 20 for example). A 10s1p 3700ma pack would weigh under a kilo (988g). If I limited my flight times to 80% of the capacity of the pack (as determined by testing) is there any reason such a set-up wouldn't work? Obviously flight time would be limited compared to the 5300-8000ma solutions which have been discussed in the thread, but I'm flying for fun and not in competition. The lower wing loading would be nice! It is obviously a big leap of faith that the new batteries will deliver the high currents they advertise, but if it is so it seems to allow us to get high current flow without big battery packs.
I enjoy the erudition and experience of the contributors to this forum and look forward to continuing to learn from you all. Cheers,
Mike
With some trepidation I will make my first post on this forum. It is not strictly a pattern question but pertains to the battery thread. I am building a 3D/ Freestyle 68' Yak powered by a Plett xtra 30-10. I am starting with a 22x10 prop and based on info from this and other foruns will be pulling around 60-65 Amps max. If the claims of the makers are true, the new 20C/30C packs can supply this current easily from a 3700ma pack (Duralite Evo 20 for example). A 10s1p 3700ma pack would weigh under a kilo (988g). If I limited my flight times to 80% of the capacity of the pack (as determined by testing) is there any reason such a set-up wouldn't work? Obviously flight time would be limited compared to the 5300-8000ma solutions which have been discussed in the thread, but I'm flying for fun and not in competition. The lower wing loading would be nice! It is obviously a big leap of faith that the new batteries will deliver the high currents they advertise, but if it is so it seems to allow us to get high current flow without big battery packs.
I enjoy the erudition and experience of the contributors to this forum and look forward to continuing to learn from you all. Cheers,
Mike
02-24-2006, 01:24 AM
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RE: Battery longevity
Mike, that combination should fly the plane great. I think it is safe to guess that no one has put that power system together, so we're making predictions and assumptions. The best data will be from someone with a bunch of cycles on that exact pack in a power system similar in current draw and throttle usage to yours.
A few numbers and equations
TP 5s4p 5300mAh 560g $275US
Duralite Flight Power Evo 20C 5s1p 3700mAh 494g $210US
TP: 9.5Ah per kg
Evo: 7.5Ah per kg
TP: $52 per Ah
Evo: $57 per Ah
-Adam
Student by winter, Draganfly employee in my spare time, pilot by summer
A few numbers and equations
TP 5s4p 5300mAh 560g $275US
Duralite Flight Power Evo 20C 5s1p 3700mAh 494g $210US
TP: 9.5Ah per kg
Evo: 7.5Ah per kg
TP: $52 per Ah
Evo: $57 per Ah
-Adam
Student by winter, Draganfly employee in my spare time, pilot by summer
02-26-2006, 06:53 AM
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RE: Battery longevity
Battery longevity?
We have a saying in Yorkshire (England) "You don't get owt for nowt." (You don't get something for nothing.)
Why is it that some LiPo cells are lighter than others yet are purportedly better than the heavier cells?
I would like to think the heavier cells have more energy density than the lighter cells consequently they are able to supply more power likewise they should last longer
please enlighten me
Sam
We have a saying in Yorkshire (England) "You don't get owt for nowt." (You don't get something for nothing.)
Why is it that some LiPo cells are lighter than others yet are purportedly better than the heavier cells?
I would like to think the heavier cells have more energy density than the lighter cells consequently they are able to supply more power likewise they should last longer
please enlighten me
Sam
02-26-2006, 11:19 PM
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RE: Battery longevity
Tom has a set of the 3700's and will be trying them shortly in Masters. Although he sold his Pletty's for Axi's for more power, so not really a equal comparison. As the Axi supposedly draws more amps. But if they work for the Axi, they will certainly work, I would think, for the Pletty's.
I will probably try the evo's soon also. Although I need the nose weight of the 5300's.
Gotta love a Yak Mike. Great aircraft... Hope you get it done soon..
Chris
I will probably try the evo's soon also. Although I need the nose weight of the 5300's.
Gotta love a Yak Mike. Great aircraft... Hope you get it done soon..
Chris
03-06-2006, 04:35 PM
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RE: Battery longevity
poor old sam!
don't ya know that the pattern boyz don't really care? when the head honcho (be him argentinian, japanese or from liechtenstein, whatever) was runnin' YS, they all ran YS. now it's hacker, no matter how much and how many planetary gears...
usable lipo's are rare, we and our need for 25C are peanuts for the big industry. all they care about are 3 million mobile phones made PER DAY using 1C at the most. so we take what we can get, and people like mr wang are our best source. the TP2100 LiteStorm is as good as it gets right now. and the better the cell behaves under real world load at the end of your average 10 min flight, the longer it will last. any objections?
roger
PS: the kokam 3200 is a poor performer[
] under pattern load, maybe usefull for kitchen applications...[8D]
don't ya know that the pattern boyz don't really care? when the head honcho (be him argentinian, japanese or from liechtenstein, whatever) was runnin' YS, they all ran YS. now it's hacker, no matter how much and how many planetary gears...
usable lipo's are rare, we and our need for 25C are peanuts for the big industry. all they care about are 3 million mobile phones made PER DAY using 1C at the most. so we take what we can get, and people like mr wang are our best source. the TP2100 LiteStorm is as good as it gets right now. and the better the cell behaves under real world load at the end of your average 10 min flight, the longer it will last. any objections?
roger
PS: the kokam 3200 is a poor performer[
] under pattern load, maybe usefull for kitchen applications...[8D]
03-06-2006, 05:13 PM
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RE: Battery longevity
[quote]ORIGINAL: exverbrenner
don't ya know that the pattern boyz don't really care? when the head honcho (be him argentinian, japanese or from liechtenstein, whatever) was runnin' YS, they all ran YS. now it's hacker, no matter how much and how many planetary gears...
This is a fairly incorrect statement. Tom and I run Axi's and I believe Chad and others around him run the Pletty's with success. And I'll make this prediction. You will see more and more Axi users within a few years in F3A. And also, who cares if the pattern boys, as you call them, run what they want. Or what works for them. Where is it anyone's business but theirs?
And also to Sam.
Think about the battery size and weight this way. How big and heavy were cell phone batteries when they first started using lipo's? Quite big and heavy. With advanced technology comes smaller, lighter more efficient products. I'm sure you know this as it's common sense. I think you should call a battery company such as Tp. They could explain it better than anyone on RCU as it's what they do for a living and you wouldn't be hearing it as hearsay from an Rcu er.
Chris
03-08-2006, 10:09 PM
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RE: Battery longevity
Hey Adam,
Just curious as to why you put the Tp' 5300's down at $275 when draganfly is listing them at $302.95.
The cheapest place I have found selling them is dynamoelectrics.com at 287.95. Second cheapest being rcmodels.ca at $300.
Is there somewhere else selling them for $275?
Thanks, Chris
Just curious as to why you put the Tp' 5300's down at $275 when draganfly is listing them at $302.95.
The cheapest place I have found selling them is dynamoelectrics.com at 287.95. Second cheapest being rcmodels.ca at $300.
Is there somewhere else selling them for $275?
Thanks, Chris
08-09-2006, 09:47 PM
#94
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RE: Battery longevity
Hi Guys,
I've been cruisin' around the E-Pattern forum checkin' out the various threads concerning E-Power, tons of info, thanks to all the E-Pattern pioneers and posters. There has to be a lot of guys like me lurking around this forum trying to decide whether to make the leap to "THE DARK SIDE". The subject of this thread is battery longevity and it seems that charge/discharge cycles is going way beyond what the early packs were kickin' out and that's really encouraging because it drives the price per flight down. That said, let's say a guy went E-Power and bought 2 fight packs for about $800 USD and was able to get 150 cycles out of them, that puts the guy in glow power fuel cost territory. If this guy wasn't able or unwilling to fly and the battery packs sat around for say... a year... would they spoil and have to be thrown out like the leftovers in this guys refrigerator or do we need more time to determine shelf-life of these perishable gems?
Thanks guys...
Gene
I've been cruisin' around the E-Pattern forum checkin' out the various threads concerning E-Power, tons of info, thanks to all the E-Pattern pioneers and posters. There has to be a lot of guys like me lurking around this forum trying to decide whether to make the leap to "THE DARK SIDE". The subject of this thread is battery longevity and it seems that charge/discharge cycles is going way beyond what the early packs were kickin' out and that's really encouraging because it drives the price per flight down. That said, let's say a guy went E-Power and bought 2 fight packs for about $800 USD and was able to get 150 cycles out of them, that puts the guy in glow power fuel cost territory. If this guy wasn't able or unwilling to fly and the battery packs sat around for say... a year... would they spoil and have to be thrown out like the leftovers in this guys refrigerator or do we need more time to determine shelf-life of these perishable gems?
Thanks guys...
Gene
08-09-2006, 11:30 PM
#95
RE: Battery longevity
ORIGINAL: gene webber
Hi Guys,
I've been cruisin' around the E-Pattern forum checkin' out the various threads concerning E-Power, tons of info, thanks to all the E-Pattern pioneers and posters. There has to be a lot of guys like me lurking around this forum trying to decide whether to make the leap to "THE DARK SIDE". The subject of this thread is battery longevity and it seems that charge/discharge cycles is going way beyond what the early packs were kickin' out and that's really encouraging because it drives the price per flight down. That said, let's say a guy went E-Power and bought 2 fight packs for about $800 USD and was able to get 150 cycles out of them, that puts the guy in glow power fuel cost territory. If this guy wasn't able or unwilling to fly and the battery packs sat around for say... a year... would they spoil and have to be thrown out like the leftovers in this guys refrigerator or do we need more time to determine shelf-life of these perishable gems?
Thanks guys...
Gene
Hi Guys,
I've been cruisin' around the E-Pattern forum checkin' out the various threads concerning E-Power, tons of info, thanks to all the E-Pattern pioneers and posters. There has to be a lot of guys like me lurking around this forum trying to decide whether to make the leap to "THE DARK SIDE". The subject of this thread is battery longevity and it seems that charge/discharge cycles is going way beyond what the early packs were kickin' out and that's really encouraging because it drives the price per flight down. That said, let's say a guy went E-Power and bought 2 fight packs for about $800 USD and was able to get 150 cycles out of them, that puts the guy in glow power fuel cost territory. If this guy wasn't able or unwilling to fly and the battery packs sat around for say... a year... would they spoil and have to be thrown out like the leftovers in this guys refrigerator or do we need more time to determine shelf-life of these perishable gems?
Thanks guys...
Gene
I am flying packs (TP 5300's) on their second season, built June 5/05, flew all last summer, sat basically from November to April (maybe 2-3 flights a month when the weather would cooperate)....and they are still going strong. Around 110 cycles on them. I did nothing special for storage, some packs sat for a month at a time fully charged.
If there is degredation from sitting, I think its minimal enough that you may not notice it. If they are still alive at the end of this season...I will let them sit again for the winter and see how they are going in the spring of '07.
08-09-2006, 11:55 PM
#96
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RE: Battery longevity
I agree with Chad.
Although in my case, my packs sit for, well, they actually for the most part, (and I hate to admit this) only get flight time at contests. I haven't had much time to practice. Although I do have 18 flights on my new plane within the last month.
I would say the people with the most electric flights would include Chad, Adam, Tom, his dad Al, and Scott Covey. And as far as I would guess, all their packs are probably around 150 mark except Tom's. His are probably over 200. Maybe he'll chime in.
I think it's realistic to say that they have become comparable in flight costs. Not buying them the first time though. But once you have, say, three sets, then you set up a second plane, it's actually cheaper than to set up a glow plane. Well, it is with my setup.
Good luck with your decision, you'll be happy if you make the move.
Chris
Although in my case, my packs sit for, well, they actually for the most part, (and I hate to admit this) only get flight time at contests. I haven't had much time to practice. Although I do have 18 flights on my new plane within the last month.
I would say the people with the most electric flights would include Chad, Adam, Tom, his dad Al, and Scott Covey. And as far as I would guess, all their packs are probably around 150 mark except Tom's. His are probably over 200. Maybe he'll chime in.
I think it's realistic to say that they have become comparable in flight costs. Not buying them the first time though. But once you have, say, three sets, then you set up a second plane, it's actually cheaper than to set up a glow plane. Well, it is with my setup.
Good luck with your decision, you'll be happy if you make the move.
Chris
08-10-2006, 06:57 AM
#97
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RE: Battery longevity
I have gone through few packs too - maybe time to share my experience here.
In 2004 I started to fly my Cayenne F3A with the HiRotex outrunner, Jeti-Hacker 90A ESC, 20x11 APCE, and packs made of 12 C PolyQuest cells, 2600mAh cells - 10s2p. The power was good in warm, calm weather, 57A static. When the wind picked up or the temp was below 16 °C, the power was not sufficient (back then I thought it was ok, but looking back I know it was not). Both packs logged about 80 cycles, I gave them away to the buyer of the plane. Towards the end, the power was simply not there.
My next plane was the Elexant with Hacker 14XL, now I have the Leviosa again with Hacker 14 XL (competition). Have 4 packs of PolyQuest XP (20C rated) cells, 10s2p, 2500 mAh. 2 packs (home) assembled 5/05, now have about 90 cycles. 2 packs assembled 9/05, now have about 45 cycles.
With these packs, and APCE 22x12, the static was originally 72 - 75A. More power that I ever needed.
Through the life of the packs, I have ocassionally puffed a cell (well always both in the pair; when one goes, the other one is immediatelly overloaded and destroyed too), but after changing the damaged cells the packs performed well again. Setting the cutoff voltage from 2,8 to 3 V per cell helped here, but even so I puffed one pair in the recent extremely hot weather.
Lately I feel that all 4 packs are not doing too well - in windy weather I have problems to finish P-07, and the power is not quite what I recall from the beginning. Still have to do some measurments though.
Now I have one new pack, 2x 5s1p Hyperion 5000 (Enerland cells, just like the PolyQuests). Crazy power, reserve for maybe 7-10 extra meneuvres after going through P-07. But only 20 cycles so far...I am curious to see what will happen after cycle 50, 75, etc...
2 more Hyperion packs should be in the mail... cannot wait.
A friend of mine is using the 10s1p 4800 Kokams with Hacker 14XL on his Elexant. About 30 cycles on each of his 3 packs. Great power, but puffed one cell in cycle 3. After changing the cell, all looks good again. I am curious to see how his packs will manage in the longer run.
David
In 2004 I started to fly my Cayenne F3A with the HiRotex outrunner, Jeti-Hacker 90A ESC, 20x11 APCE, and packs made of 12 C PolyQuest cells, 2600mAh cells - 10s2p. The power was good in warm, calm weather, 57A static. When the wind picked up or the temp was below 16 °C, the power was not sufficient (back then I thought it was ok, but looking back I know it was not). Both packs logged about 80 cycles, I gave them away to the buyer of the plane. Towards the end, the power was simply not there.
My next plane was the Elexant with Hacker 14XL, now I have the Leviosa again with Hacker 14 XL (competition). Have 4 packs of PolyQuest XP (20C rated) cells, 10s2p, 2500 mAh. 2 packs (home) assembled 5/05, now have about 90 cycles. 2 packs assembled 9/05, now have about 45 cycles.
With these packs, and APCE 22x12, the static was originally 72 - 75A. More power that I ever needed.
Through the life of the packs, I have ocassionally puffed a cell (well always both in the pair; when one goes, the other one is immediatelly overloaded and destroyed too), but after changing the damaged cells the packs performed well again. Setting the cutoff voltage from 2,8 to 3 V per cell helped here, but even so I puffed one pair in the recent extremely hot weather.
Lately I feel that all 4 packs are not doing too well - in windy weather I have problems to finish P-07, and the power is not quite what I recall from the beginning. Still have to do some measurments though.
Now I have one new pack, 2x 5s1p Hyperion 5000 (Enerland cells, just like the PolyQuests). Crazy power, reserve for maybe 7-10 extra meneuvres after going through P-07. But only 20 cycles so far...I am curious to see what will happen after cycle 50, 75, etc...
2 more Hyperion packs should be in the mail... cannot wait.
A friend of mine is using the 10s1p 4800 Kokams with Hacker 14XL on his Elexant. About 30 cycles on each of his 3 packs. Great power, but puffed one cell in cycle 3. After changing the cell, all looks good again. I am curious to see how his packs will manage in the longer run.
David
08-10-2006, 10:33 AM
#98
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RE: Battery longevity
David,
Your experience back in 04 was about average back then. The new technologies that have come out this year may push them alot longer. Let's hope.
I have no experience with the cells you are using. My experience is with the Tp's and The Flight Powers.
And honestly I had good experiences with both. It would seem to me that there is a reason you keep puffing cells. With the Hacker, I've seen demagging problems, and other issues with them that cause cells to puff. Even esc's to blow.
I'm not picking on Hacker, just pointing out that you should possibly have your motor checked.
Now, all that said, possibly your friends Kokams are the same type of cells as my flight powers. I puffed a cell on the second cycle. My dealer told me that it's rare for it to happen to these packs, but that if it did it would happen by the 3rd cycle. I have had no other problems with my three sets.
BTW, how much do the Hyperion 5s1p's cost and weigh?
Thanks,
Chris
Your experience back in 04 was about average back then. The new technologies that have come out this year may push them alot longer. Let's hope.
I have no experience with the cells you are using. My experience is with the Tp's and The Flight Powers.
And honestly I had good experiences with both. It would seem to me that there is a reason you keep puffing cells. With the Hacker, I've seen demagging problems, and other issues with them that cause cells to puff. Even esc's to blow.
I'm not picking on Hacker, just pointing out that you should possibly have your motor checked.
Now, all that said, possibly your friends Kokams are the same type of cells as my flight powers. I puffed a cell on the second cycle. My dealer told me that it's rare for it to happen to these packs, but that if it did it would happen by the 3rd cycle. I have had no other problems with my three sets.
BTW, how much do the Hyperion 5s1p's cost and weigh?
Thanks,
Chris
08-10-2006, 11:37 AM
#99
RE: Battery longevity
ORIGINAL: patternflyer1
BTW, how much do the Hyperion 5s1p's cost and weigh?
Thanks,
Chris
BTW, how much do the Hyperion 5s1p's cost and weigh?
Thanks,
Chris
HP-LVX5000-5S 18.5V 642g 47*160*45
A bit on the fatty side. I am fairly sure that Hyperion uses Enerland for some of its cells......so does Tanic, and Flightpower. TP Gen2 packs came from Enerland as well.
FYI,
Dualsky Models
* MaxAmps 4000 Cell
* Vampower Pro
* XPower
“E2-Tech” E Square Technologies
* E-Tec
Enerland
* FlightPower “EVO” Evolution
* Hyperion LiteStorm “VX” Voltage Xtreme
* iRate
* Poly RC
* PolyQuest XP
* Thunder Power Gen. 2
* Tanic 5000 Cell
“HECELL” High Energy Battery
* MaxAmps 3000 Cell
* Mile High RC
* TrueRC
Kokam
* Kokam
Saehan-Enertech
* Thunder Power Gen. 1
* Align
* Hyperion LiteStorm “CL” Capacity Light / Hyperion “VL” Velocity Lite
* Impulse Power
* Thunder Power ProLite
* Zebra Hobby LiPower Lites
Tronics Electro
* MaxAmps
