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TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

Old 11-03-2007, 09:11 AM
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patrnflyr
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Default TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

I've been flying two 5300 packs of 5 cells each for the last year and a half and I'm suing a wiring harness in the plane and on the charger for making it 10S. I've noticed quite a few people at the contests "lashing" these two packs together with tape and foam making a 10 cell pack. Their wiring is also setup with one connector. I've been looking at the new Extreme V2 10 cell batteries. What do you guys think about using it? The only drawback I can see is if one cell goes bad, but TP's service has ALWAYS been impeccable for me and I'm sure they could replace it if needed. I fly Intermediate and my son flies Advanced. BTW, our Prolites are still doing great, but I have a new Integral on order with the Hacker COMP motor, so I want to get the very best for it... Thanks in advance for your advice. John
Old 11-03-2007, 04:22 PM
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Scott Smith
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Default RE: TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

I’ve only used the 10S configuration (3-5000’s, 2-3850’s). I find it a very convenient and compact package. But you’re right; a lot of guys seem to be using 5S in pairs (4500’s?) If you have capacity for 1200 grams of battery (5000’s), go for it! The 3850's are not enough in my opnion.

My high cycle pack is a 5000-10SX with 69 cycles and good as new as far as I can tell. Never more than .025 out of balance. Although after about 250 total charges, I’m not convinced the balancer is as accurate as they say. In fact, I just did a 50% storage charge on all five batteries. All five recorded cell 8 as the high cell and either 9 or 10 as the low…what are the odds on that? I'm not too concerned, as long as it shuts the charger off if a cell goes over 4.2v!

This is with a new balancer that TP just replaced for me so you are also correct about TP backing their products!
Old 11-03-2007, 04:29 PM
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Scott Smith
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Default RE: TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

Oh. the other drawback to 10S, you can only charge at 1C. Some guys are using two chargers and charging at 2C with the 5S packs.
Old 11-03-2007, 08:14 PM
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patrnflyr
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Default RE: TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

Didn't know that! I have 2 1010C's and 210 balancers for hardware. When I was reading on the TP site and Draganfly site, they mentioned that the V2's could even be charged at 3C without damage to the batteries. Does that not include the 10 cell pack also? Here's the quote from the DraganFly site under the 5000mah 10cell pack:

"The 1010C is the recommended charger, which allows you to charge at up to 3C (3 times the faster than the standard 1C 1 hour charge) when used with a Thunder Power balancer, for fast charging times."
Old 11-03-2007, 09:18 PM
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Default RE: TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

You can only charge at what your battery manufacturer allows.. Not what the charger can charge at.. Otherwise, you may need a good homeowners policy and a quick escape from the house.. LOL

I run 2 5 cells as I only have the astro 109 chargers.. If I had the 1010, I would run them configured as a 10 cell.. Not for any reason but the 1010 can do it and it saves a few grams in the plane..

I can only charge at 1c regardless as that's all my 5350's allow..

Chris
Old 11-03-2007, 10:35 PM
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Default RE: TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

If you have 3 sets of batteries, there will be no need to exceed charging at 1C. Bring the batteries to the field charged, and you can fly almost continuously the rest of the day if you recharge at 1C which will take about 45min for a 100% charge after a Masters class flight of about 3400mah. I run 2- 5S packs together and charge them as 10S on the TP 1010 charger and 210 balancer. I know plenty of guys running the single 10S packs with good success also, so it is probably a personal choice of running a single 10S pack or 2-5S packs together.
Old 11-04-2007, 12:18 AM
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Default RE: TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

Steve..

Not sure where you are coming up with this info.. But then again, maybe I missed something.. I'm half asleep right now. lol[sm=bananahead.gif]

Flight power has this to say..


Charge Rate - The FlightPower EVO 20 range should normally be charged at 1C during the Constant Current phase of charging (the charge current setting on the charger). This means that an EVO 20 1800 mAh pack should normally be charged at 1.8 Amps (or 1800 Milli Amps). This will result in a pack that is 90% full in around 1 hour.

Fast Charging - In conjunction with Enerland, the FlightPower EVO 20 range has been qualified for 2C charging as a combination of cell technology and matching by FlightPower at the point of manufacture. This means that an EVO20 1800 mAh pack can be fast-charged at 4.5 Amps (or 4500 mAh). This will result in a pack that is 90% full in around 25 minutes. (All) fast charging of rechargeable chemistry results in a reduction in cycle life, it is therefore recommended that fast charging be done when time is of the essence.


Also this

For charging set-up we are principally concerned with the number of cells in SERIES. A 3s2p pack MUST be charged as a "3-cell" lithium polymer (LiPo) pack, sometimes shown as a 11.1V pack (= 3 x 3.7V). We should normally limit the current during charging to a maximum of 1C, for instance 5 Amps for a 5000mAh pack. An appropriate LiPo charger will normally prevent overcharging if this data is entered correctly.
The new 20C chemistry can be charged at 2.5C for the first 90% of its capacity, given proper supervision and / or an appropriate LiPo fast charger and balancer combination. For most LiPo chargers on the market, setting the charger to a 1C charge rate should be regarded as good practice.


So for 20 C packs it's sorta ok even though earlier they said to normally charge them at 1C.... The 5350's are 17C that I run..

Also, they say

Don’t charge dissimilar or un-matched packs in series or with any difference in cell type, cell capacity, pack capacity or charge state (+/- 0.03V per cell). If in any doubt, charge separately.

The 5350's that I run are matched sets.. They come in a package paired.. Not sure how the new Tp's come, I'm sure they offer the same.. But if they aren't fully matched there could be longevity issues if charged in a 10s.. Maybe, not sure I buy it though..

Thunder Power has this to say..

7) NORMAL CHARGING: The charge rate should not exceed 1C (one times the capacity of the battery, unless otherwise
noted*). Higher setting may cause problems which can result in fire.
For example: Charge a 730mAh battery at or below 0.73Amps. Charge a 5000mAh battery at or below 5Amps.
Thunder Power packs with balancing connectors can be used with TP balancers for safer charging. For
more information, please visit: www.thunderpowerrc.com
*To charge at greater than 1C (no more than 3C): You must use a Thunder Power 1010C charger in
conjunction with a Thunder Power Balancer (205 or 210) and data cable. Only ProLite 910, 1320, 2000 and
2100 cells qualify for charging up to 3C.


This being said, it's all I read at this point.. And I'm sleepy.. Maybe I missed it..

Anywho,
nighty nite.. [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]
Chris

Old 11-04-2007, 12:21 AM
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patternrules
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Default RE: TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

Chargers are the limit for charging c rates TP and Flightpowers can be charged at 2 to 3 c without problems links to follow but the chargers will be limited to it rating so the TP 1010
can charge a 5300 10s at only 5 amps or a 5300 5s at 10 amps or 2 C. I've been doing 3 c on smaller packs for 2 years without problem with the TP 1010 and 210 balancer.
Check these links. Click on read full article under new for 2007 http://www.flightpower.co.uk/
Read #7 paragraph under notes. http://thunderpowerrc.com/PDF/THPSafetyWarnings.pdf

Steve Maxwell
Old 11-05-2007, 06:40 AM
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BrunoCH
 
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Default RE: TP battery question? 5cellx2 or 10 cell x1

On the FP page, if you click on "new for for 2007", you get this:

for the Evo-Lites - "...Fast charge rates up to 2C approved in conjunction with balancing, the FlightPower V-Balance is ideally suited"
for the Evo- 25 V-power - "...Fast charge rates up to 2.5C approved in conjunction with balancing, the FlightPower V-Balance is ideally suited."
for the Evo 30 - "...Fast charge rates up to 3.0C approved in conjunction with balancing, the FlightPower V-Balance is ideally suited. "

For the Thunderpower batteries, the safety sheet reads:

"7) NORMAL CHARGING: The charge rate should not exceed 1C (one times the capacity of the battery, unless otherwise
noted*). Higher setting may cause problems which can result in fire.
For example: Charge a 730mAh battery at or below 0.73Amps. Charge a 5000mAh battery at or below 5Amps.
Thunder Power packs with balancing connectors can be used with TP balancers for safer charging. For
more information, please visit: www.thunderpowerrc.com
*To charge at greater than 1C (no more than 3C): You must use a Thunder Power 1010C charger in
conjunction with a Thunder Power Balancer (205 or 210) and data cable. Only ProLite 910, 1320, 2000 and
2100 cells qualify for charging up to 3C.
"

I could swear Charlie Wang said that all Extreme series could be charged at over 1C, but maybe I´m imagining things?

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