Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
11-28-2005, 03:24 AM
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Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
OK I need all the hlep I can get, I just bought a Blade CX and the charger that comes with it does not work. When I connect the chrager to a 12v power source nothing happens, no RED lED nothing. I know the power supply is working good however the charger is not. However I have a Duratrax ICE charger that will charge LIPO packs I just have no idea how to use it to charge the CX LIPO packs. I only have a negative and positive output for the charger and have no idea what the blue 3rd wire is for on the CX lipo pack? also what amp do I charge the packs at? I have never charged lipo packs before so I do not know. If there is anyone who uses a charger other than the stock charger please help me out. I really need to get this CX in the air. I pulled it out of the box and it does not work! arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Thanks
Chris
Thanks
Chris
11-28-2005, 02:15 PM
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RE: Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
Hey,
I recently got into the Lipo thing and have the hobbico DC charger. My lipos do not have a third wire on the connection. Just the standard plug that attatches to the original connector. The chargers however, that can charge lipos do not exceed 1 amp, as I have read. Something to do with the batteries charging capabilities and fire if exceeded. All I know is that I have the $50 variety with the adjustable chage amerage and no matter where I turn the dial it does not exceed the amperage. So you should be able to just plug it in and charge it without worry as long as it is a Lipo compatable charger. As for the third wire thing, I have no idea, but am sure someone will help you out there.
I recently got into the Lipo thing and have the hobbico DC charger. My lipos do not have a third wire on the connection. Just the standard plug that attatches to the original connector. The chargers however, that can charge lipos do not exceed 1 amp, as I have read. Something to do with the batteries charging capabilities and fire if exceeded. All I know is that I have the $50 variety with the adjustable chage amerage and no matter where I turn the dial it does not exceed the amperage. So you should be able to just plug it in and charge it without worry as long as it is a Lipo compatable charger. As for the third wire thing, I have no idea, but am sure someone will help you out there.
11-28-2005, 02:23 PM
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RE: Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
get a voltmeter and test to see if there's anything coming out of the charger
test the lipo voltage also. if it is under 3.0volts per cell then the lipo is defective. the charger will NOT charge the lipo if it's below that threshold level due to a lithium fire/explosion risk.
test the lipo voltage also. if it is under 3.0volts per cell then the lipo is defective. the charger will NOT charge the lipo if it's below that threshold level due to a lithium fire/explosion risk.
11-28-2005, 03:18 PM
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RE: Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
Only charge your lipo at 1 X C (capacity). That is, if your pack is say 1200 mah, DO NOT exceed 1.2 amps charge rate!! Also make very sure the voltage is set correctly on your charger to match the battery voltage, should be 11.1v, but check the pack to be sure.
These things have been known to explode and catch fire if used wrong!!!! Charge them in a fire proof container (I use a steel baking pan) and in a fire proof environment.
I don't mean to scare you, I've been using lipos for over a year without incedent, just be careful.
These things have been known to explode and catch fire if used wrong!!!! Charge them in a fire proof container (I use a steel baking pan) and in a fire proof environment.
I don't mean to scare you, I've been using lipos for over a year without incedent, just be careful.
11-28-2005, 03:49 PM
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RE: Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
Found this for you too....
Lithium Safety – by Fred Marks (as posted on RCU - Battery Charger forum).
In order to present as clear a picture as possible and to guide in the safe use of Li pos, no matter the manufacturer, you will find at www.fmadirect.com under the Support section the Kokam Battery Systems Ap Note, Ap Note # 2 in pdf to download.
The following is a brief supplement to the Charging and safety sections of the Ap Note. The principal things to remember: Li Ion and Li Poly cells have Lithium in them and that is why they have five times the energy density of other chemistries. Powdered Lithium, if heated sufficiently, can ignite and burn. Understand: we can test, report, educate, add in any kind of safety device but, as long as Li is present there may be some way that it might be ignited. In the ultimate, suppose a lightning strike hits your model! The only thing to do in all this is to charge the packs in such a way that, if they do ignite, no harm is done.
Please do take time to read the following and download the information in the Ap Note.
All high energy density batteries including Ni Cd, Ni MH, Li Po, and LI Ions and the chargers used require common sense and caution. If any are overcharged or shorted, great heat and pressure result. Ni Cd and Ni Mh cells have a mechanism to vent excess gas pressure, as do Li Ion cells. These cells all have in common, a thin metal can enclosure. I have experienced explosion of Ni Cd cells when the vent did not function properly. One such occurred at 1 AM in a deathly quiet shop as I worked on an Army radio system in 1984. That was behind me and about 15 ft away. You probably never saw a 55-year-old, 225 lb guy clear a 4 ft workbench flatfooted! I didn’t even bother sending the 4AH cells back to Sanyo since it was a charger malfunction that caused the event.
Li Ion cells truly can explode as they are sealed in a metal can. They too have vents. However, Lithium is a metal that, as a powered material can burn if ignited. This is true of several metals, not just Li. Magnesium burns readily even in solid form. Thermite is powdered iron that, when ignited, has been used to weld steel. Finely powered aluminum is the “fuel” for almost all solid rocket motors. Some solid rocket motors are made of extruded nitrocellulose, an organic material. Organic materials burn when ignited, just like paper. Powdered, sintered nickel takes a very high temperature to ignite.
Li Po cells also can vent if charged at too high a voltage. There is a narrow range of choice of the electrolyte for use in Lithium Ion cells. Remember that Li Po cells are a form of Li Ion; they derive their name from the fact that Li Po cells are housed in a plastic (polymer) envelope. If the envelope has a small Vee cut in the join line, that serves as a vent. The major difference with Li Po is that the envelope can swell when pressure builds to form the infamous “silver sausage”.
Any cell is ruined when pressure that causes venting is experienced.
If a Li Ion cell suffers ignition, the vent cannot act quickly enough to prevent rapid pressure build up. When this happens, the can fails instantly and catastrophically just as it can in a Ni Cd/Ni MH if the vent does not function properly. The pressure release is, therefore, explosive just like popping a balloon only with massively more force. This is why all Li Ion cells used in OEM applications such as cell phones have a protective circuit on them.
The failure mode that leads to explosion in a Li Ion leads to an event called “venting with flames” in a Li Po cell. The basic phenomenon is called thermal runaway. If, say, a Li Po cell is charged at six to seven volts, well above the nominal 4.2 V limit, the electrolyte can begin to “boil” and develop voids as temperature rises above about 180 degrees F. If this abuse continues for, say, ½ hour, the electrolyte, being organic, can eventually ignite. As we said earlier, it takes a lot of heat to igniter Lithium. In a solid rocket motor, ignition is initiated essentially by a high explosive blasting against the propellant.
If the thermal energy release of the electrolyte used is high enough, the Lithium can be ignited. In tests I have conducted, the electrolyte burns at about the intensity of burning paper when it has a heat gun blasting it. When I light the fireplace I winter, I wad up newspaper in softball size wads and put in a layer before I put wood on the grate. If I have light, dry kindling, just igniting the paper with a lighter lights the fire. Last winter was so nasty that we ran out of kindling. I found that the thermal output of the wadded paper could be increased sufficiently to ignite reasonably dry maple logs by blasting the paper with my Monokote iron. The point: Subtle but significant changes can affect ignition. Not every overcharge event causes ignition.
If the lithium ignites, it burns with an intensity and gas generation that can cause “venting with flames” that is the gasses exit the envelope with a swoosh, not a blast. If you have the pack in your airplane when this happens, your airplane is going to be damaged. If you have the pack on a highly flammable car seat, the seat is likely to catch fire.
Does this happen often? Not really; we have about a dozen such events reported in the past 18 months out of perhaps 100K cells in the field and, probably, a million or more charges. In all instances, analysis of the event has shown that the cell/pack was charged at too high a voltage and/or there was a fault in pack assembly.
Methods that are as stress-free as possible that permit one to use Li P cells in a completely safe way are outlined in Ap Note 2 located at www.fmadirect.com. Open the home page, click on Support then scroll to Ap Notes to open or download the pdf file for Kokam Li Po battery Systems.
It is a simple matter to operate safely. Just as you are asked to avoid smoking while handling an open can of glow fuel, keep your hand out of the prop, don’t whittle toward yourself, and don’t fly while drinking, it is suggested that the simple warnings posted at our web site be followed. Remember, safety is a matter of discipline. Remember also, that we take care to educate the user about these things.
Fred Marks
11/30/03
Lithium Safety – by Fred Marks (as posted on RCU - Battery Charger forum).
In order to present as clear a picture as possible and to guide in the safe use of Li pos, no matter the manufacturer, you will find at www.fmadirect.com under the Support section the Kokam Battery Systems Ap Note, Ap Note # 2 in pdf to download.
The following is a brief supplement to the Charging and safety sections of the Ap Note. The principal things to remember: Li Ion and Li Poly cells have Lithium in them and that is why they have five times the energy density of other chemistries. Powdered Lithium, if heated sufficiently, can ignite and burn. Understand: we can test, report, educate, add in any kind of safety device but, as long as Li is present there may be some way that it might be ignited. In the ultimate, suppose a lightning strike hits your model! The only thing to do in all this is to charge the packs in such a way that, if they do ignite, no harm is done.
Please do take time to read the following and download the information in the Ap Note.
All high energy density batteries including Ni Cd, Ni MH, Li Po, and LI Ions and the chargers used require common sense and caution. If any are overcharged or shorted, great heat and pressure result. Ni Cd and Ni Mh cells have a mechanism to vent excess gas pressure, as do Li Ion cells. These cells all have in common, a thin metal can enclosure. I have experienced explosion of Ni Cd cells when the vent did not function properly. One such occurred at 1 AM in a deathly quiet shop as I worked on an Army radio system in 1984. That was behind me and about 15 ft away. You probably never saw a 55-year-old, 225 lb guy clear a 4 ft workbench flatfooted! I didn’t even bother sending the 4AH cells back to Sanyo since it was a charger malfunction that caused the event.
Li Ion cells truly can explode as they are sealed in a metal can. They too have vents. However, Lithium is a metal that, as a powered material can burn if ignited. This is true of several metals, not just Li. Magnesium burns readily even in solid form. Thermite is powdered iron that, when ignited, has been used to weld steel. Finely powered aluminum is the “fuel” for almost all solid rocket motors. Some solid rocket motors are made of extruded nitrocellulose, an organic material. Organic materials burn when ignited, just like paper. Powdered, sintered nickel takes a very high temperature to ignite.
Li Po cells also can vent if charged at too high a voltage. There is a narrow range of choice of the electrolyte for use in Lithium Ion cells. Remember that Li Po cells are a form of Li Ion; they derive their name from the fact that Li Po cells are housed in a plastic (polymer) envelope. If the envelope has a small Vee cut in the join line, that serves as a vent. The major difference with Li Po is that the envelope can swell when pressure builds to form the infamous “silver sausage”.
Any cell is ruined when pressure that causes venting is experienced.
If a Li Ion cell suffers ignition, the vent cannot act quickly enough to prevent rapid pressure build up. When this happens, the can fails instantly and catastrophically just as it can in a Ni Cd/Ni MH if the vent does not function properly. The pressure release is, therefore, explosive just like popping a balloon only with massively more force. This is why all Li Ion cells used in OEM applications such as cell phones have a protective circuit on them.
The failure mode that leads to explosion in a Li Ion leads to an event called “venting with flames” in a Li Po cell. The basic phenomenon is called thermal runaway. If, say, a Li Po cell is charged at six to seven volts, well above the nominal 4.2 V limit, the electrolyte can begin to “boil” and develop voids as temperature rises above about 180 degrees F. If this abuse continues for, say, ½ hour, the electrolyte, being organic, can eventually ignite. As we said earlier, it takes a lot of heat to igniter Lithium. In a solid rocket motor, ignition is initiated essentially by a high explosive blasting against the propellant.
If the thermal energy release of the electrolyte used is high enough, the Lithium can be ignited. In tests I have conducted, the electrolyte burns at about the intensity of burning paper when it has a heat gun blasting it. When I light the fireplace I winter, I wad up newspaper in softball size wads and put in a layer before I put wood on the grate. If I have light, dry kindling, just igniting the paper with a lighter lights the fire. Last winter was so nasty that we ran out of kindling. I found that the thermal output of the wadded paper could be increased sufficiently to ignite reasonably dry maple logs by blasting the paper with my Monokote iron. The point: Subtle but significant changes can affect ignition. Not every overcharge event causes ignition.
If the lithium ignites, it burns with an intensity and gas generation that can cause “venting with flames” that is the gasses exit the envelope with a swoosh, not a blast. If you have the pack in your airplane when this happens, your airplane is going to be damaged. If you have the pack on a highly flammable car seat, the seat is likely to catch fire.
Does this happen often? Not really; we have about a dozen such events reported in the past 18 months out of perhaps 100K cells in the field and, probably, a million or more charges. In all instances, analysis of the event has shown that the cell/pack was charged at too high a voltage and/or there was a fault in pack assembly.
Methods that are as stress-free as possible that permit one to use Li P cells in a completely safe way are outlined in Ap Note 2 located at www.fmadirect.com. Open the home page, click on Support then scroll to Ap Notes to open or download the pdf file for Kokam Li Po battery Systems.
It is a simple matter to operate safely. Just as you are asked to avoid smoking while handling an open can of glow fuel, keep your hand out of the prop, don’t whittle toward yourself, and don’t fly while drinking, it is suggested that the simple warnings posted at our web site be followed. Remember, safety is a matter of discipline. Remember also, that we take care to educate the user about these things.
Fred Marks
11/30/03
11-28-2005, 05:23 PM
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RE: Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
ORIGINAL: sparky814_hawk
Hey,
I recently got into the Lipo thing and have the hobbico DC charger. My lipos do not have a third wire on the connection. Just the standard plug that attatches to the original connector. The chargers however, that can charge lipos do not exceed 1 amp, as I have read. Something to do with the batteries charging capabilities and fire if exceeded. All I know is that I have the $50 variety with the adjustable chage amerage and no matter where I turn the dial it does not exceed the amperage. So you should be able to just plug it in and charge it without worry as long as it is a Lipo compatable charger. As for the third wire thing, I have no idea, but am sure someone will help you out there.
Hey,
I recently got into the Lipo thing and have the hobbico DC charger. My lipos do not have a third wire on the connection. Just the standard plug that attatches to the original connector. The chargers however, that can charge lipos do not exceed 1 amp, as I have read. Something to do with the batteries charging capabilities and fire if exceeded. All I know is that I have the $50 variety with the adjustable chage amerage and no matter where I turn the dial it does not exceed the amperage. So you should be able to just plug it in and charge it without worry as long as it is a Lipo compatable charger. As for the third wire thing, I have no idea, but am sure someone will help you out there.
11-28-2005, 07:57 PM
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RE: Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
Hi I am thinking of ordering a CX, How do u like it? I had a housefly before but it was so cheaply built it broke the first day I had it.. I just got frustrated and gave it away..
Let me know
Thanks
Let me know
Thanks
11-28-2005, 08:13 PM
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RE: Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
Well I have fixed the Charging issues, got on the phone with Horizon hobbies and they explained what to do. I just use the plug that is red with the positive and negative wire I do not use the white plug to charge the pack. I charge the pack at .5amp to .8amp and at 7.4 volts. I must say this thing is very easy to FLY! I have never flown even a plane and this thing is a blast. Fly’s great in my apartment, learned to hover and take off from my bed, and I just cant get enough I think I am going to buy two more pack so I don’t have to wait an hour for the pack to charge the only downside~!
I must say if you have never flown before get the CX and not the CP this thing is just great!
I must say if you have never flown before get the CX and not the CP this thing is just great!
11-30-2005, 01:23 PM
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RE: Please help Charging Blade CX lipo packs!!
I will Fly outside when weather permits but its about 20 deg here and just love flying with no wind and nice warm place!
