Adam T

I have had great success with my CP Hornet with a stock Speed 300 motor. I recently got a Hacker with a Phoenix 10. I was expecting a real increase in power and duration. However, I'm finding that the Hacker seems to have either the same or slightly less power than my stock set up.

Here is my ESC setup:
1. Voltage cut off option 1 (4v)
2. Voltage overload option 2 (sensitive)
3. No brake
4. Timing advance option 2 (recommended in instructions for the Hacker and described as a compromise between power and efficiency)
5. Fixed throttle and both low and high gov modes (see below)

I'm using the same 8 cell powerex packs I used with my 300, a 10 tooth pinion, and symmetrical "Walt" blades. My AUW (according to my cheap digital kitchen scale that measures in 2 gram increments) is 302 grams. W/out battery it's saying 204 grams. I realize my Hornet is a bit fat, but I'm comparing with the speed 300 and nothing but the motor and controller have changed.

I'm getting lousy power in all of the following configurations:

1. Fixed throttle in the Phoenix 10 and the same (similar) throttle/pitch curves in my Tx that I was using with the stock motor. I've adjusted my throttle ATV's so that the motor comes on just as I raise the stick, and the light comes on solid just as the stick reaches full throttle. In this mode, the Hacker seems no more powerful than the 300, and maybe less! Duration is ok, but nothing special (about 8 minutes of hovering before it sinks into GE). I usually get about 6-7 mins of hovering with the Speed 300.

2. Low gov mode, throttle ATVs at 150, throttle curve 0, 100, 100, 100, 100. Heli won't even lift off.

3. High gov mode, throttle ATVs at 100, throttle curve 0, 67, 67, 67, 67. Heli flies, but climb out is sluggish compared to the 300 motor. I've also tried higher throttle curve settings, but I seem to be limited by power in the gov mode just as in the fixed throttle mode.

Any ideas? From what I've read, I ought to be getting some serious power out of this thing! I clearly don't have that. What could I be doing wrong?

Thanks.

DeadSticker

My Feedback: (18)

Everything looks good except for the pack. Try an Etech 1200 Li-poly pack and you will see the increases you are looking for. I had the same experience with my first brushless set up. Same motor/controller 8 cell NmHD batts. Got an Etech 1200 and never looked back! Am getting 20+ minutes of flight time now, depending on how "hard" I fly it. Hope this helps....

http://www.deeteeenterprises.com/NS.E.Tech.Lipolys.php

Adam T

Thanks so much for the quick reply! Good to know I'm not losing my mind. Bad to know that I have to buy a bunch of new packs! Oh well.

Anyway, I was really under the impression that the Hacker performed well with 8 cell NiMH packs. Can anybody else confirm the experience Deadsticker and me have had? Has anyone haf good performance from an 8 cell NiMH pack? Thanks.

DeadSticker

My Feedback: (18)

It does kinda suck having to buy new packs, but it is well worth it. With Li-poly packs, you can fly through one, throw it on the charger, Fly another, and have about 5 minutes down time before the other pack is done. And you could use the NiMH packs for your new 300 powered Hornet...

Adam T

Hmmm, that raises another issue I am curious about. I have an Orbit charger and I've found that it takes over 2 hours in the correct mode (Li-Ion) to get a full charge into my two cell E-Tech pack I was using with my 300. I specify 1 amp as the charging current, which would give me a full charge in a little over an hour if it were constant, but the Orbit's program reduces the current over the course of the charge, and it ends up taking a lot longer. Are you able to get a charge into your Li-Poly packs quicker? If so, how? Can I specify a higher rate than 1 amp without damaging the pack? Thanks.

DeadSticker

My Feedback: (18)

Hmm that is a good question.....I use this to charge mine.....

Wes Technik Li-Ion Quick Charger
Input from 11 to 26VDC
Charges from 100mA to 1000mA
When charging 3-cells you must provide at least 15VDC on the input.

If you need it I think I might have a spare Etech 1200 cell to make it the 3 cell, 11.1v. Let me check tonight when I get home.

Adam T

Thanks! Everybody seems to be out of 3 cell E-Techs, so I'll have to fly a slug for a while I guess.

DeadSticker

My Feedback: (18)

See above the picture in the last post I made.......

grisnjam

Try here.

http://www.lightflightrc.com/

I really like their work ... and they have 3 cell 1200 mah E-Tec packs in stock.

Adam T

Thanks. Nice site. Inspires confidence.

Dodgey99

I did exaclty the same. Only 2 solutions.

1 - 11 tooth pinion
2 - 3 cell li-po

Adam T

WOW! This thing is a rocket with a 3 cell E-tec. Unbelievable! I'm psyched! You're right Aaron, I'll never look back. And thanks again for the cell. WHO CARES HOW IT PERFORMS WITH NI-MH

DeadSticker

My Feedback: (18)

Hey Adam,
Glad to see the cell fixed it!! Have fun and happy flying....

jgiles-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

How would the 300 motor have responded to the 3 cell E-techs? Although the voltage will probably fry it.

It is a little discouraging that you weren't able to achieve better results by just changing the motor and speed control as this would have been a good controlled test. Isn't the improved performance a given with higher voltage, increased mah and lighter weight?

Also, what was your final AUW with the E-techs?

Adam T

I was running a two cell E-tec with my speed 300 and the performance was ok for hovering, but that's about it. The Pixie could have handled the current of a 3 cell but the BEC would have been pretty taxed at that voltage with four servos and a gyro, so I never tried it. My AUW without batteries is 204 grams. My 8 cell NiMH battery packs come in at about 98 grams, and my 3 cell E-tec comes in at about 74 grams.

After further testing, I ultimately concluded that the performance with the Hacker/Phoenix and an 8 Cell NiMH pack was about the same as the speed 300 in terms of power, and a bit better in terms of duration. Turns out that the main advantage of going with the Hacker is the ability to safely run the higher voltage 3 cell li-poly packs, and of course, Hackers don't wear out like a speed 300.

CaptHal

My Feedback: (10)

Is there a difference between the Kokams and the Etecs??
Thanks,
Just ordered my Hacker. Batteries next!!
hal

Adam T

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the E-tecs are the preferred cells. The original Kokams did not have the current handling output capability of the E-tecs. I think that Kokam has come out with high output cells in the 600 mAh range, and possibly larger, but I have no experience with these cells. Everyone I have talked to has been very high on the E-tecs, and I certainly fall into this group.

CaptHal

My Feedback: (10)

Thanks for the quick response.
I am in the preocess of upgrading my Hornet to CP and an added Hacker motor.
Just toasted a canopy...let glue run down open areas Arrgghh!!
hal

Adam T

I now use a thin double sided tape to attach the canopy halves. Has held up quite well, there's no mess or drying time, and you can disassemble if necessary. Also, in a bad crash, the halves can break apart at the seam and come out of it unscathed. Good luck.

CaptHal

My Feedback: (10)

Where do you find that thin tape??
I live in SoCal too.
hal

Adam T

http://www.hornet-heli.com/cgi-bin/b...=000871#000011

CaptHal

My Feedback: (10)

Wow!! Thanks a ton. Just placed an order for my tape.
hal

Adam T

You're most welcome. I'm really pleased with the tape method. Sucks that you have to buy so much of it though, but you'll never run out!

jgiles-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

You can also pick up the canopy tape at any office supply store. It's sold by 3M as "Permanent double stick tape" catalog #137. It comes in a 1/2" x 12.5yd dispenser roll for right around $2. We use it in a machine shop environment and it works extremely well even with direct oil contact. Also great for mounting servos when vibration isolation isn't required. It doesn't have a paper backing so it may be more difficult to work with.