tocano

My Hummingbird doesn't get off the ground with a diy training gear. It's pretty light. My LHS don't have a training gear in stock and it's easier for me to upgrade the motor to a more powerful one. I have read few people use speed 300 6volts graupner motor. I like to know if the picoboard (esc) can handle the speed 300 current. Also do I need to change the tail motor to a more powerful one too? Where I live it is a lot easier to get graupner motor than other brand at least for the brushed motor.
If I can get any brushed motor what would be the best for HB?
Also can I use the pinion on the stock motor?
Sorry for the long thread.

Zflyer

I use the speed 300 6V and it's fine still runs a little on the hot side but so far no trouble use a 9 tooth pinion infact the piccolo pinion set that includes an 8th,9th,and 10th is fine and dosen't cost much the 9th is the one you want and it's a press fit but you might add a drop of CA for a secure mount. as far as the Picco board it'll probably handle the current as far as the tail motor I'm not sure as I opted to use seperates from the begining.
My set-up
Speed 300 6v
Great planes 10amp ESC Main
Great planes 5amp ESC tail
stock tail motor
No problems with the tail with seperates also haven't burnt out the tail motor yet. Posibly because of the Great Planes 5amp ESC which has a 3khz switching Freq. higher than most standard controllers I think

tocano

I installed a graupner speed 300 today and it works okay. I use the pinion from the standard motor because my lhs don't carry picollo pinions. I set the throttle movement to 70% to reduce the current going through the board. The board got hot and part of the plastic melted but it still works after a couple of battery packs. Even with 70% power I still get a lot more power. I still unable to hover the HB and still doing bunny hops. It's pretty difficult to get it to hover I guess I have to practice more.

MartialArtist

I ordered the new 370 high performance motor from centuryheli.com. They say that it will help increase flight time due to a better craftmanship. You might one to try one, I'll let you know how it works when I get around to it. I'm in the process of MOVING again..

Gazoo

I am thinking about sticking with the HP Motor for awhile (from Century) and ordering the new heat sinks that have for it along with a spare motor. I like that cool purple

AtomHeartMother

*cough, cough* brushless*cough,cough*
If you want to go with a speed 300 or 370 motor, you'll probably need to go down to an 8 or 9 tooth pinion. This will help with flight times, heat and tail authority. That being said, my GWS 370 didn't last much longer than the stock 280. I'd just about bet my paycheck that the GWS 370 and the Century 370 rolled off the same Mabuchi assembly line. One gets a sticker...the other doesn't. These motors just get too hot and there's little ventilation in the hummer canopy.
I know brushless motors and controllers are expensive, but they really pay for themselves if you add up continual brushed motor replacement costs. Just have to decide if you're going to stick with it for the long haul-if you fly alot...etc.
A brushed motor may be best until you get past the "multiple crash" phase(which I know so well).

Gazoo

I am putting my Orion motor back in mine this evening. I already changed my mind It is not brushless, but is an excellent option for a brushed motor. I am saving the money that I could put into a brushless motor for the HB, for my next heli....probably an Eolo.

tocano

I definetely have to change to lower pinion like 8 or 9 with speed 300. The tail motor just can't keep up with the speed 300. All I have is a heli that spin anti clockwise, this is after I reduce the throttle movement to 70% on my tx and increase the subtrim on rudder to 50%. They are out of synch. What more can I do?
By the way is the Orion motor better suited for HB than speed 300? Is it expensive?

Gazoo

The Orion motor is about $40.00 USD. The link for the details of the motor follows:

http://www.team-orion.ch/news.asp?id=177

I put a 10T on it but I need to go with an 11T or 12T since I have the LiPo's. It is fine with a 10T for practicing to hover. It sings

The tail motor is a problem. Even with my CSM HH gyro, the heli wants to go to the right but much, much, more slowly than it did with the Century gyro. It could be that I just need to play with the gain. But the heli is much easier to control with the new gyro.

tocano

Thanks for the info Gazzo.
I think I see the Orion Motor on ebay sometime. I'll bit for it next time. It makes graupner speed 300 look ancient.
With the tail motor, is that something that can be modified with a higher performance motor. It is one thing that I need to get fix the most at the moment. Just can't get it to hover with steady tail.
It makes right spin straight after take off.

MartialArtist

One thing I noticed will help BIG time is twisting the blades like they say to the extreme, but don't break it. lol! My HB takes off and hovers really nice with just 1/4th throttle. If you haven't read my post, this was all due to me crashing it, shortening the flybars, and using a messed up, high pitched stock motor..

tocano

I actually changed the motor back to the stock motor today. It was a really nice calm day today so I flew it outside. It's the best flight I have so far and I had no problem with the tail. I had to remove the training gear though. I broke the skid and the rudder stick and glue them back with CA.
Still having problem to get it to hover steadily. I need more practice hopefully the weather is calm again tomorrow. I think it will be a while before I can hover it inside the house.
I'll probably use the speed 300 for something else like flying wing unless I get a better tail motor and going seperate with esc. Less changing more flying.

Gazoo

I am now running with the Orion motor and the CSM200HLG. The heli is very stable. It still wants to drift to the right a bit even with the new gyro, but moving the rudder trim on the transmitter to the left one or two notches solves the problem.

I have the LiPo ruberbanded to a small platform I placed on the front two pieces that stick out on the front of the heli. The canopy fits on perfectly and the heli is not too tail heavy. I am using the stock tail motor and have a heat sink mounted to it. So far...so good.

tocano

My HB is so unpredictable. Yesterday I flew my HB outside in the afternoon. This morning which happend to be a cold morning but very calm it didin't get off the ground, actually it did by only 3 - 4" above the ground. The grass was still wet from a cold night and the air was cold. I checked everything, bent the rotor, checked the paddle etc. But no it just didn't want to fly. I will try again this afternoon if the weather permit to confirm my finding.

Gazzo, I like to have a seperate setup like yours but I don't have a heli radio. All my radios are for airplanes. I am looking into getting a new JR radio for this reason but not sure which one I should get. Eventually (if I don't get too frustrated with the HB) I like to get a bigger heli for outdoor like Robbe or LMH.

Zflyer

tocano you can use a seprates set-up with your Plane radios if you also use a Heading Hold Gyro (HH Gyro) like the one Gazoo is using the CSM200HLG lightned version, simply put it takes the place of your mixer board and dose the work of a heli TX revo mix

Gazoo

Don't know why you need a heli radio to run the same setup I am. I am not running separates and am only using 4 channels.

I am still using the HB. But I did get the best radio I could afford which was a Futaba 9CHP so I can be ready for when I get a bigger heli. I am seriously considering the Eolo since I want to have CP on the next one, but the Corona is probably the best FP heli for outdoor use.

Also I don't know why your heli did not like the cold weather unless the batteries got too cold.

My setup:

Etec 2S 1200 LiPo battery.
Orion Elite Modified Motor with 10T pinion.
FMA M5 Receiver.
HB Speed Controller.
Futaba S3103 servos.
CSM200HLG Gyro.

Common Mods:
Shaft Collar and heat sink for tail motor.

Gazoo

Zflyer,
Sorry. I thought he meant separates like separate speed controllers. Just wanted to make it clear

Zflyer

Roger that, that's what I mean also your Humming Board serves as speed control (2) and Revo Mix for the tail. in an HHGyro set-up with seprates you have 2 speed controls 1 main 1 tail and an HH Gyro no mixer no Heli radio needed in fact if you use a Heli radio with an HH Gyro you have to disable Revo-Mix . If you don't the Gyro tries to control tail position and the Revo on the radio tries to do it also Mass confusion

tocano

My HB still not flying in the afternoon and it has nothing to do with cold weather. Getting a bit frustrated with the unreliability of the setup. Something must have changed since yesterday but I can indentify the problem. I feel the best way is to get a more powerfull motor that the tail motor can handle. The voltage on the main motor shows 6 volts at max throttle with both of my nicad 600 mah & 800 mah packs.

Please bare with me I am still confused. Gazoo you setup uses HB speed controller that comes with the kit. It can handle the current that the Orion elite requires without problem? Also the tail motor can keep up with the main? Basically you replaced the main motor and HB gyro but the wiring/connection is exactly the same? I wonder why when I use speed 300 motor the tail motor just can handle it. Also the HB board got so hot it melted the plastic cover.

Also I didn't know that with HH gyro with 2 seperate speed controller the mixing for main and tail is done in the gyro. I thought the gyro didn't do the revo mixing. I really need to do more reading.

Thanks guys.

Zflyer

Gazoo's Orion Motor Draws much less power than a Speed 300 6v dose, it's a more efficient motor with the 300 you need to use a 9 tooth pinion gear. the reason we're not getting the tail problems is going seprates also allows more power to the tail so we get more rpm's at the tail. also should you choose to go to an orion motor get the one from HeliHobby it includes a mount kit that the other's out there do not. It'll save you some bother later

tocano

Zflyer, with your setup basically you replaced the HB board and piezo gyro with CSM200HLG and 2 ESC with radio revo swithed off? The revo mixing is done by the gyro? Just need to confirm what I undestand is correct.

Zflyer

That's how I would have done it had I an HH Gyro I used a standard Gyro so I had to use the Revo Mix on my TX to set the tail

Zflyer

For the Heli I'm currently building a Corona 120 I bought an HH Gyro for it so I have to remember to disable the Revo on the TX when I set it up or it'll be windmill land

tocano

Thanks Zflyer, I am looking for a Corona. I've been checking the ebay lately for used or new corona.