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George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

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George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

Old 09-12-2011, 06:07 AM
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dionysusbacchus
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Default George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

I don't hold much hope for this, but I really need the plans for the George Miller F-4. Even if someone could just take a digital picture of them and post it, that would be a BIG help! I did a search and not one hit for the George Miller F-4.

I recently picked up a kit and want to convert it to EDF, I'm going with the Dynamax even though it will be more work, I can't find any Byron fan units. I'll be using the thrust tube from the Yellow F-4 and I'll make my own intake ducting.

The kit I found was in really bad shape, left in a shed for many years. The extreme heat, rats, Silverfish and cockroaches all took their toll on the old bird. I will have to cut new foam wings, but I think it will be worth the work. The kit was purchased new in 1987, so it was one of the very first kits George sold, it is lacking some of the refinements of the later kits, but I'll do my best to add those details.

Thanks for any help, [&:]

Luke
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Old 09-12-2011, 10:02 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

Hi Luke,

George Miller here,

That is definitely one of my very first kits. It was only when I first started that I supplied the fuselage with a removable rear section, without the air separator area at the intakes, and I am guessing that it also doesn't have the recessed areas in the bottom of the fuselage for the Sparrow missiles.

And the date on that kit is not l987, it is 1984.

I also do not have any copies of the plans.

Paul Marsh has read your message here and knows a modeler who has one of my F-4's and he is making contact with him to see if he can help you.

Now if you are not able to get a set of plans, and to be honest I do not even know if they will be all that much help to you either. The whole kit changed so much in very short order from the original kits put out the first few months.

However, with a lot more photos from you and especially photos of the pages in the instruction book, I can probably guide you through the restoration of this kit and the building of it.

Now we can either work with it through this post or you can contact me by E-mail. "[email protected]"
Old 09-13-2011, 01:52 AM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

George, what a pleasure to have you join the thread! I always loved your ideas of light weight and simplicity, all of your old kits looked awesome. I really appreciate your help with my project, still providing great customer service!

Let's build this thing right here! I feel much more confident now!

I'd like to know what the fuselages were made with, epoxy or polyester? I was just wondering if epoxy glue or West Systems epoxy will stick to it?

I want to make the smaller engine hatch of your later kits, this one looks way to big.

I need to figure out the position of the main spar in the wing and the position of F-2 (fan mounting former) This will also help me locate the main gear mount area.

I was unsure how the wings were set at the proper incidence, it seems like you are saying in the manual that the wings sit in the foam cradle while they are attached to the fuselage?

Then the last question I have is how the parts in the stab mechanism are oriented (I'll post pictures later) and generally how the tail feathers were built.

If we can figure those things out I will be able to get a lot done. I ordered the Spring Air 701's for the 3/8 struts [link=http://www.retracts.com/Retrax_700.htm]Spring Air 701 retracts[/link] I called them and he got a kick that I was building this plane, I guess you two go back a ways because he said he provided your gear back then also. I also do have a few pages of your old instruction book, I'll post those here for reference. Later I'll post pictures of the kit parts so that I can identify them.

Thank you so much George for your help with this, I really appreciate it!

Luke
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:13 AM
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Default RE: Need Plans for George Miller F-4...please?

Here is some inspiration
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Old 09-13-2011, 06:20 AM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

Would like some help on the power set up, I will be converting a Dynamax, below is my shopping cart so far at the Electric Jet Factory. Unfortunately EJF is not answering the phone or email, so I need some help here. I need all of this stuff now so that I can make the modifications to the thrust tube, without that I can't close the fuselage.

Also, what Castle Creations ESC would be right for this set up?

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Old 09-13-2011, 06:22 AM
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Default RE: Need Plans for George Miller F-4...please?


ORIGINAL: drifter

Here is some inspiration

Very nice! Thanks for that drifter, I am inspired!
Old 09-13-2011, 06:40 AM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

Here are a few pages that are not in your post. from a later manual.
Fuse was polyester according to supplement.
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Old 09-13-2011, 07:57 AM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

Really appreciate those manual pages drifter, they are a great help. Love the Web-Lock Splicing Tape idea for sheeting the wings.

Looks like I'll have to get some Polyester resin at Wal-Mart.
Old 09-13-2011, 09:39 AM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

The Miller Phantom is a great flying jet!! I've built 3 of them (2 with a single Dynamax/OS.91s and 1 with twin Dynamax/OS.77s
I made my own bifurcated thrust tubes (for the twins) out of 1/64th ply rolled and glued in the jig shown below.

BTW - I looked all over and can't find any of my plans. They were all of the later version of the kit.
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Old 09-13-2011, 11:26 AM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

ok , i will dig them out of the box... will pictures due .. or am i going to have to copy them?

this way i am on board.. as i also want to convert mine to EDF.

i had one in denver colordo.. i bought it with half a wing missing and made a new one...it flew so well even at those altitudes that i had to get another one when i could.

i have video of it landing(badly) to a guy i sold it to when i left.. and i have another video of one whipping up on a topgun f-15pro.

Old 09-13-2011, 12:04 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

why were you going to go to dynamax?

the byron fan will still push 120+... i've seen one out run a topgun pro w/ a dynamax .91 setup.

that byron will give a lot of static thrust and no more ducting needed , which can save weight for other things.
Old 09-13-2011, 12:09 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

The single dynamax was about 130 mph. The twin was 180+++

Oops. Just realized the question was for the OP.
Old 09-13-2011, 01:19 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!


ORIGINAL: grbaker

The Miller Phantom is a great flying jet!! I've built 3 of them (2 with a single Dynamax/OS.91s and 1 with twin Dynamax/OS.77s
I made my own bifurcated thrust tubes (for the twins) out of 1/64th ply rolled and glued in the jig shown below.

BTW - I looked all over and can't find any of my plans. They were all of the later version of the kit.

Thanks for the pictures, I'm very impressed with your work, hope I can get mine to look like those! Kind of hard to imagine seeing the kit now! Any plans will do, I can update my plane that way, but thanks for taking the time to look.


ok , i will dig them out of the box... will pictures due .. or am i going to have to copy them?

this way i am on board.. as i also want to convert mine to EDF.

i had one in denver colordo.. i bought it with half a wing missing and made a new one...it flew so well even at those altitudes that i had to get another one when i could.

i have video of it landing(badly) to a guy i sold it to when i left.. and i have another video of one whipping up on a topgun f-15pro.
Just some close up pictures of the plans will be plenty, thank you very much for doing that. Post those video's!

why were you going to go to dynamax?

the byron fan will still push 120+... i've seen one out run a topgun pro w/ a dynamax .91 setup.

that byron will give a lot of static thrust and no more ducting needed , which can save weight for other things.
I have a Dynamax, and I can't find a Byrofan, I've been looking for a while now. Trust me, I know it would be easier, although my tail pipe (see picture) is destroyed for the Byron, I have a Yellow Aircraft F-4 tail pipe, so all I have to do is fashion some intake ducts. If I find a Byrofan in the time it takes me to get a response from the Electric Jet Factory, then I'll stick with the Byron theme.

I know how well F-4's fly, so I'm really looking forward to getting this one in the air. Please post your pictures on this thread also, if you are going to start your conversion.
Old 09-13-2011, 02:12 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

this is the one with a bad landing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm7MLfgLivc

and the f-4 vs f-15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XMQE6lBc9k

these are old hi8 videos...

Old 09-13-2011, 02:42 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

pics a few
Old 09-13-2011, 02:43 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

try again
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:46 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!



...

Old 09-13-2011, 02:47 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

RCU ticks me off sometimes
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:49 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

another try for some more
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:50 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

and try the last 3
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Old 09-13-2011, 02:53 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

and before i can get to it i am trying to finish this byronfand/f conversion...
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:10 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!


ORIGINAL: Tampaflyer

and before i can get to it i am trying to finish this byronfan d/f conversion...
Wow, now that is an interesting project!

Thanks for all of the pictures of the plans, that is extremely helpful. I think I have enough info to get started.

What glue did you use to attach the wing to the fuselage? Epoxy should work as long as you scuff up the polyester fuselage shouldn't it?
Old 09-13-2011, 05:13 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!



you sand till you expose the fiberand drill holes through the glass. don't need to be large or a lot.. as the glue squeezes out it forms a backing too.

Old 09-13-2011, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!


ORIGINAL: Tampaflyer

this is the one with a bad landing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hm7MLfgLivc

and the f-4 vs f-15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XMQE6lBc9k

these are old hi8 videos...


He needs to learn how to slow a plane down and not fly it into the ground! Real shame to fly a plane like that (your old Blue Angels F-4) On the F-4 and F-15 I was kind of mad at the video guy for staying on the Zoom so much, but I did like the performance of your plane, very nice.
Old 09-13-2011, 10:20 PM
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Default RE: George Miller F-4 Build - also, welcome George!

It is great to see some of modelers who built my F-4 kits. I met Gary Baker at least once in Texas. I think he is one of the finest modelers I have ever met. I believe he is in this photo taken at the Texas Fan-Fly.

Through the years I built 3 different sets of plugs and molds. Each time improving the kit the best I could. I think I have sold more F-4 kits than all the other manufacturers combined. Over 900 of them shipped all over the world. Went to 15 or so fan-flys every year and met many outstanding modelers. Traveled to many of them with my best buddy, Col Bob Thacker who flew nothing but my kits. He is about 94 now and the last time I talked to him he was still flying jets and had a turbine in one of my YF-22 kits.

I had "Custom R/C Aircraft for almost 22 years, and was also a contractor for George Lucas at Industrial Light & Magic. I built some of the largest RC aircraft of the time. 16' B-26's and 21' PBY's, Two of my F-4 were used in "Die Hard II" and two of my T-38's were used in "Hot Shots" and yes they were RC. Even the pilots heads were servo operated in the F-4s.

"It was a wild ride" And it gave me the ability to completely retire at the age of 55.

Luke, you have received some great help here by modelers who have come across with their instructions and plans. And the plans are of one of my first kits, so it relates to what you have.

You will have to take what info you have here and put your own skill to it. With the photo I have seen so far of the severely damaged kit you have, major work is ahead of your if you are going to try and restore this aircraft.

Yes the kit is made out of polyester. I never did care for epoxy(too hard to work with) but did go to Isophalic resin when it came out. This resin is harder, stronger, and lighter than epoxy.

However it is possible that polyester will be a advantage here. It is obvious that this fuselage was damaged by heat and storage for these 27 years. You may be able to use heat here to help get it back in shape. By applying a heat gun to it and fashioning it into shape using rolled towels and then cooling it, it may take some of it's shape back. You may have to add some new formers to it. Once I got this fuselage back to shape as much as I could, I would glass the rear section to the main fuselage.

Yes you do want to go to a much smaller hatch. My basic kit had a hatch that was only on the ridge back of the fuselage. But I would not cut it yet.

What you have to do once you know you are going to be able to use this fuselage is get your power plant together. You are going to need this to be able to tell what modifications you are going to make. Forget about where the formers are located in my Byron powered kit. We'll get to that later.

You say you have a Dynamax Fan? You say you are going to electric? The Dynamax fan has come into it's own with electric power. The increase in RPM is just what this fan needed and the electric motor makes this the fan of choice if you want to build aircraft of this size. It is not cheap, it needs monster batteries, but it is the one. Iron bay, who bought me out, also bought out Byron. We can pretty much say that he has buried, everything he has ever got his hands on. So I would forget abut trying to get Byron fan stuff. And forget about Larry Wolfe"s Turbax stuff. It was nothing but junk back in glow engine days and it is still junk today when electric powered.

I have included a photo of my new F-4 here showing the location of it and the hatches used. This should give you a good reference to where you are going. Notice the fan is behind CG so the batteries can be forward to balance the aircraft without having to add weight. The ESC is a must in the duct tube.

I will not get into the stab mechanism yet. You are a long ways from there.

In the photo,I do not see: the piece of the stab mechanism that goes up into the vertical, the lower rear section of the fuselage, the canopy.

I consider the F-4 my favorite aircraft and the best flying scale R/C model of all times. I am in the process of building a EDF version of it now. I will get my great friend Paul Marsh to post on this site the directions to my projects I have since getting back into R/C.(I got out of R/C when I retired and shared the hobby of HO trains with my son for 10 years) This is a serious "Bad to the Bone" R/C F-4 and the way it is built and the location of the components will help you greatly.
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