RCaillouet3

Hello all,

I have been looking but as yet not found anything. I have been looking for an F-18 that has aileron and elvator control at minumum, and that uses an EDF type power system. I have seen ones that use a pusher prop typr of powere plant, but I would rather have an EDF power system. Why you may ask! The answer is easy, I haven't flown a ducted fan / turbine model yet, and want to fly one of that design. I just want it to look like a true jet (no porp hanging out the back.) Not trying to be picky (maybe a little) but I want to make the jet jocks in my area with their $5000 airplane jealous of me and my $200 jet!

Thanks for the help!!!

Reg

Thomas Nelson

Check these guys out: warbirds-rc.com

http://www.warbirds-rc.com/Merchant2...tegory_Code=AE

andrewjet

My Feedback: (16)

yea here's mine![8D]

Jason R.

you could also try ejf.com and eam.net they both have them the eam one is arf

good luck with your plans..

watt_the!

is that f18 single or twin edf?

CTulanko

The FA-18 from Warbirds-RC is a single fan Electric Ducted Fan Jet. It uses a Minifan 480 and a variety of motors have been proof tested on the model. This jet ROCKS...Period!!! It is one of the best looking, best flying Minifan ARF's I have ever flown and it comes highly recommended. A brushless combo is required to get the full performance from this model and depending on your final AUW, it may be hand launched, although I bungee launch mine.

A cool video can be found here:

http://www.e-flightline.com/movies/B...els%20f-18.wmv


and a few pics of mine flying can be found here, click on a small pic to enlarge:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/ctulank...2004%2Ftompics


Good luck with your search.

Carl

watt_the!

Thanks mate!

final question, has anyone done this with landing gear?

watt_the!

is the body glass?...i suppose it is eh?

CTulanko

Yes, you can do a fixed landing gear mod...I know of one person that even did his fixed gear so it would be removable and he could bungee launch if he wanted. It does not come with gear. It is a balsa and ply jet, pre-covered in either Gray or Blue Ultracoat. As the website shows...it's an ARF...glue on the wings and tail feathers, then add fan, motor, esc and radio gear. It uses two servos for Elevons.

Carl

ZAGI-XS-=FatalFlyer=-

Which glue did you use to put it together? I wonder how a kan 8cell 1800 nimh pack will do, with a Astro flight 020? Its my zagi combo, and its great. I bet the astro 020 on that f-18 will be awesome!

-Steve

watt_the!

i was hoping it was a glass body...how does balsa and cover handle the belly landings?

id expect that it wouldnt last very long at all would it?

CTulanko

Zagi...

The model is assembled using Epoxy and CA...your normal basic glues for model aircraft. You can view the entire assembly step by step at these two locations:

http://www.rocketryforum.com/ctulank...x.php?dir=fa18

http://www.warbirds-rc.com/Models/0008/index.htm

As far as power plants go, the fastest and what appears to be the best setup so far is the Mega 16/15/ 2T with a 3S2P 2200mah Lipo pack...it's a rocketship but also flies slow. I don't know how the Astro compares to the Mega motor so I can't help there. I fly mine on the Kontronic Fun 400-36 and a 10cell 1950FAUP; there is plenty of power and speed with room for more if needed. My next one is going to be on the Mega 2T though!

The model lands absolutely fine with belly landings on grass...I have many flights now and still don't have a scratch. If you have to fly and land on asphalt, do the landing gear mod. For the money, you are not going to get a glass Fuselage, nor is it necessary. This jet flies better than most of the glass bodies and holds up well on landing. I doubt a glass fuse would sell as well, as it would put it out of the price range of most fliers. As is, anyone can afford this kit and everyone IMHO should have one in their hangar...period!

Carl

watt_the!

hi Carl,

Thanks for the info- it is useful for sure!

i fly the huckebein off of grass at my field...i.e. belly takeoff.

So my questions are relating to thrust etc. With 3s2p on the minifan and the fun 400-36, the kontronic website shows 28A at 9.6V and 540g thrust!

These are big numbers compared to the huck, which does belly takeoffs with under 300g thrust.

What is the weight of the model, without motor, esc and batteries please?

Also, do you know of any other power combo that people are using?

I was hoping to get away with a 3s 10C 2100-2200 pack, hence drawing no more than 20-22A max...which would put thrust at around 550g.

the kontronic site shows this:

V,I,WATTS,THRUST
7.6,18.5,141,394
8.7,23.7,206,501
9.6,28,260,580
11.5,38,437,841


So i figure that perhaps the 3s2p packs are capable of the 841 g thrust....isnt this a thrust:weight of over 1:1?

Basically what im saying is, do i need to spend that extra $200 to setup a 3s2p powerplant?...my experience with the huck has been that it flies great with about 0.5:1...even off grass...

I'm almost there-- to buying one....but, alas, no grey ones in stock at WBRC.

Tim.

CTulanko

Tim,

I can tell you that my setup on a Kontronik Fun 400-36 with 10cell 1950FAUP peaked at just over 400W then settled in at 385W and 32-34 amps. It's not quite as fast as the Mega 2T, but flies very well and I have the option of adding another cell or two, thus getting it near the 500W range, where the Mega is pretty much maxxed out at 10 cells or a 3S config. So, in reality, yes the Kontronik will produce some serious power, but the added weight to get it there wouldn't be worth it. The motor alone is almost twice as heavy as the Mega...good for handling power dissipation but bad for weight. My model weighed in at 29oz WITH motor, fan ESC, Rcvr and two HS81 MG servos and no battery...so it's pretty light.

The best combo to date I have seen fly though is still the Mega 16/15 2T on either a 3S2P 2200mah or higher Lipo pack or a 10cell 1950FAUP...they both fly about the same speed...draw is around 40amps or so and around 450W. You could go 3T, but that has been a bit dissapointing in performance due to the rpm drop and to get the rpm's back up you have to add more cells, hence more weight. Save your money and buy the Mega 2T and the fan for the price of just the Kontronik.

Carl

watt_the!

Hi Carl,

The info is great.....thanks!

any chance you could measure the output thrust?..that the most important factor for me. The power generated helps, but doesnt tell me what actual impetus is needed to fly the model. As i understand it, the thrust exits via a split duct?

i am trying to get away with a 3s pack only. I know nothing about nimh batteries-maybe you could enlighten me? I'll go that option if i cant spec a 3s lipo setup. All my planes run using 3s 2100 either gen1 or gen 2 tp. So as part of speccing a model, i try to get it to fit the rest of the fleet. That being said, it's more that i dont like the idea of having to tie up two packs in any one plane. mainly due to cost.

I have been thinking about nimh for some time now, maybe i start getting myself edumacated?!

one thing i dont know, is how much amps nimh can achieve..is there a guide/formula?

Your help is very much appreciated!

Tim.

CTulanko

Tim,

Check out the assembly pics link I posted...you will see it is a single thrust tube exit. I have no means of measuring the thrust accurately, so I can't help you there. I do know that if you try to run a power plant, be it Mega 2T, 3T, Kontronik Fun400-36, Hacker BL40-9S or any other motor made for this sized bird, you will not fly it on a single 3S 2200 pack. A newer 10C 2200 would not be able to produce the current, 32 - 45 amps or more, needed to drive the motor and you would burn up the pack...note I said 10C, a newer generation pack...older ones would be toast just bench testing. You could use a higher winding motor and get your current rating down around 20 amps, but then you would have given up thousands of RPM, hence speed and performance.

You can make it fly on lower power packs, but the lack of performance would not make it enjoyable. As far as NiMH, the 1950 FAUP and 3300's can supply quite a bit of amperage, but do give it up in another way with shorter run times. I get about a 4 minute run on the 1950FAUP 10 cell packs. The big disadvantage is that they are heavier than a 3S2P pack by a couple ounces or more. However, the 1950's can supply 30-40 amps nominal with 45-50 amps peak and I have heard near 70 amps for the 3300's, depending on the setup.

It comes down to the fact that if you are looking for an FA-18 that can run on a single smaller Lipo, this wouldn't be the jet for you. Unfortunately, it's about the only good ARF out there, so you will have to settle for a kit or scratch build.

Carl

watt_the!

Hi Carl,

A single thrust tube eh?

Cool. The reason that i'm skeptical is that i've heard similar things over and over and over again. I dont doubt that this thing runs very well on the 3s2p setup..awesome in fact...

but what i here almost continuously are claims like " it wont fly etc." on less than such and such setup.

it applies to glow and electric setups. For instnace , the huckebein thread that almost insisted on a vasa fan and a fairly expensive setup...for it to fly well. although any numbers ran through the kontronic site's tests for the vasa fan versus the stock alfa fan didnt seem to justify the $300 price tag difference between a "cheap brushless setup" and the "vasa one"...not to mention the time taken to do all the mods.

i see that if 3s2p is used with the fun 400-36, thrust for the f18 will be around 840g.- 29 oz.

this, with your AUW of 29oz, without batteries..starts to make sense. If your battery pack weighs 8 oz assuming 120g per pack of 3s lipos, then your thrust to weight would be:

29:37 or 0.78:1

which is pretty good..adn should give great performance. However, the cost of that setup would be around $75+$150+$150 = $375US. Which isnt too bad i guess.

I am seeing at kontronic, that if i single 10C 3s pack was used, with the fun 400-28, for 20A or so, 610g thrust is attainable. The AUW would be around 26oz + batteries, or around 30oz.

This gives a thrust to weight ratio of 21:30, or 0.70, for a cost of about $50 + $75 +$120 = $245US. Considering that my huck hauls a** at less than 300g thrust and 590 g AUW, and takes off from grass, then i'm thinking that 0.5:1 thrust to weight is quite acceptable. Hence my incessant questions about this model. Actually, i'm thinking that since T:W is still 0.7, i can "afford" to go even cheaper!!...lol..

any comments?..

I still need some convincing here as you can see!... but please dont take this the wrong way, I'm trying to sort through the jungle...

Cheers!

Tim.

CTulanko

Tim...no problem man, glad I could help with the numbers. Unfortunately, I am pretty much out of comments as you are delving into an area that I have not seen tested, so you will be pretty much on your own. I am sure the model will fly on lesser setups as it glides well and has long legs on landing, even at my weight of 43oz AUW with the 1950 pack.

So if you keep it at 30oz or so, which seems pretty light seeing how mine was 29oz without battery, you just cut down a bunch of weight. The only thing I see on numbers is you may have more TTW with a lighter setup, but the output, and more importantly velocity of the thrust will be much lower, hence your top speed will decrease. RPM will be 20,000rpm less than what I would call a normal setup...that's quite a big change.

Anyway, good luck and let us know what you wind up doing...I would like to see some comments on a lesser setup.

Carl

watt_the!

Hi Carl,

I "think" that i will try something lesser...at least at first. You see, i'm more after something that just "flies like a jet",....it doesnt really have to go that fast for me. I know that some really dig that, but for mine, i just appreciate the fact that it flies and looks like an f18. when i mean flies like- i mean does circuits, rolls, some loops..in fact the low speed stuff is probably more entertaining for me...but alas, i wont have the thrust to get out of trouble though.

So yes, i have no doubt at all that your setup rocks... no probs there. I just want to try and keep my fleet able to be powered by any cell that i have. So i can rotate them easily...that's mroe where im coming from.

What i intend to do is take a himaxx or similar, get an idea of the rpm i'll get, then figure out the thrust. BTW the thrust from the kontronic 400-28 is 41m/s efflux, whereas the 400-36 is 48m/s.

I will also of course, have less flying time than your rig. I like to take out several planes to the field, so it's unlikely that it'll be flown more than twice in a day anyway.

I have ordered one...and will study your construction article to assit my assembly for sure!... things like that are very useful!

Do you think that the model itself weighs around 650 g (23oz).empty (just with fan)?...that seems quite heavy to me..the huck weighed 10oz empty.....with fan.

I like the info on the glide...very assuring!.

i'm off to find a <20A setup...i think it can be done...but have been known to be wrong!!!!...lol...

Tim.

watt_the!

you know what- i completely missed your AUW of 43oz..i thought it was 29oz with batteries!

my bad.

i run the numbers not just from first principles but also in motocalc.

in summary i get this: for your setup

thrust:weight
46:43 static at WOT

32A..93 mph...quick!

3:41 flight time.

optimum level flight speed 45 mph, gives 46 minutes flight!...under half throttle.

nice...


this makes it a little easier to mix and match...standby....

watt_the!

with himax 2025-3200

and 3s tp 1900 gen 2 pack.

thrust:weight
24:30

14A max at WOT.

8 minutes flight time at WOT and 71 mph.

78 mins flying at optimum flying speed...36 mph. less than half throttle.

skyhawknut

My Feedback: (3)

Sorry - but you are not going to get 78 min flying time on 1900 mah.

watt_the!

well that's good enough for me then....if you say so!

the numbers speak for themselves...

at 36 mph this is the optimum coefficient of lift to drag ration and pulls around 1.4- 2.9 amps at this condition.

isnt the way to find out time at this simply C/A x 60?

on the other hand, to maintain level flight, the aircraft needs to do 53mph which is 5.7A. this can be done for 22 minutes.

please dont be sorry, just please post the rationale behind your comment..

Tim.

urielka

does any body have plans for making a f-18 like that or smaller?

RCaillouet3

Hey guys, thanks for the help!

I have one question for you though. I have a Himax 2015-5400. Does anyone have a clue what this hot little motor will do in a EDF 55, and does anyone have any idea if this thing will power the 18 well?

Possible packs to be used: 2S and 3S kokam 1500
Controller- Jeti 18-3P advanced

Amp draw needs to be less than 12 for the packs (can get another and parallel), and less than 15 for the motor (might be able to talk the wife into another motor), and less than 18 Amps for controller (wife WON'T allow me to get another controller, have to make do with a motor that will work with this one!)

I have been told that the 2S pack may get me some good performance out of the f/a-18! Any ideas??? Should I go with a 2025- something???

Thanks,

Reg