hargravebl

Hey all,
I'm moving into my first EDF and I would like to get a GWS A-10 with the EDF55-300 motors. Now I have done my research and read up on other posts about this bird. I plan on flying it just about stock...okay hold the comments for now. I want to use electronics that I already have from previous birds...hence the stock set up. I don't do LiPo, I'm not that hard core of a flyer to spend the money on that stuff so I plan on using NIMH batts...8 cell 9.6v 730mah's that I fly in my GWS Zero and Tiger Moth 400. Are those batts a good choice if flying on NIMH batteries? And can I use my GWS ICS-300 ESC or do I need a bigger ESC (amp wise?). I'm not looking for a "rocket" but I want something that will fly a little faster and with more "oompf" than my Zero. My Zero has a 400 motor in it not a 350 btw. Would taking out the 300 motors in the EDF's and replacing them with 400's do much? Thanks for putting up with the questions....

AJ1202

Hargravebl, I think your gonna find that using the 9.6 730 ma batt is not going to get the job done with the A-10, I had mine all stock and had to go to a 9.6 1100 ma before I could get it to sustain flight, I really like the A-10 but it is a rather difficult plane to get airborn when stock. CG is critaical and putting the batts where the batt compartment is won't get the CG far enogh forward to fly well. I filled the lower batt comp in with great stuf foam and modified my cockpit and put the batt there and that did the trick, I wouldn't go to 400 motors because then your adding weight and would need more batt to power them. I found using a brick style 9.6 1100 ma in the front of the cockpit made the plane fly fairly well, you difinatly will not have a rocket but it will fly nice, be sure to do any reinfocing mods you can because this things breaks very easy, The A-10 is a fun plane and looks very nice in flight but I'm not sure it's the best 1st EDF plane to try, you have to fly this thing not just steer it around
Good luck

hargravebl

AJ, thanks for the reply and advice. I have heard that the EDF55s are easily burned out with too much voltage...have you had problems with the 9.6v 1100s? I didn't think about the weight of adding 400s so I'll leave the motors and fans stock. Do you have any pics of your battery compartment modification by the way?

I know this plane is for advanced flyers...I don't have EDF experience but I think I have enough stick time with my Zero (which I have to fly not steer ) to fly the A-10. That's if I can get it to fly...sounds like lots of people have had problems with this plane. If not the A-10...what makes a good first EDF?

I'd like to keep this threat on the GWS A-10 but if anyone has any comments or suggestions feel free...thanks!

AJ1202

hargravebl, it's not volts but amps that burn up the motors, I did not have any problems with the 9.6 1100 ma batts, I also used 9.6 1050 and they did good as well,sounds like your up for the A-10, I think I have some pics on the batt mod, I will look and if so I'll post them for you. As the A-10 is the only EDF I have ever had I can't speak for other planes, I personaly really like the A-10, it just needs some mods for reinforcment and a strong enough batt to pull both motors. one thing I learned is unlike most planes you have to launch this one by throwing it hard and up not level, a good strong throw upward will give it just enough lift to keep it flying till it can gain good air speed, otherwise your just going to have real long landings after the launch , I don't have my A-10 anymore as I had some glitching problems due to using cheap electroncs and it played lawn dart on me and mangled it so bad I couldn't repair it [&o] RIP. Anyway I think it's a good plane, just take the time to get it ready first so you will have sucessful flights

hargravebl

AJ, what kinda flight times did you get with those batts? Look forward to seeing some pics of that batt compartment too...will help me on construction.

AJ1202

Well it depended on winds and whether I was fly low or high but on average I guess 6 to 11 min is about right, most of the time would be WOT to keep good air speed, I'll look for those pics this weekend, I'm pretty sure I have them somewhere

hargravebl

Thanks AJ, also can you tell me what you are using for a ESC? And would 9.6v 1600mah batts be too much?

whissel_blowa

I think you are giving yourself alot more work by using anything other than LiPo's in this plane. My first A10 had a 1500mah LiPo in it and the pack weighed 122 grams. If I was going to build a stock A10 I would use one of the new generation 1200mah 3s lipos which weigh 99 grams. This mind you was my first electric plane, and first battery pack! I didnt even start on Nimh...

Two 300H motors pull around 16 amps in the A10 with 3s LiPo, and the plane flies really quite well if built light. Make sure you reinforce the fuselage with CF strips down its length, the 0.5mm thick 8mm wide strips are great. Swap the spars supplied, with 3mm CF tube, not rod.

With a 9.6v pack I would expect current draw around 12-13 amps, and the plane flies, but is hardly inspiring. My current A10 pulls 34 amps, pumps out over 700g thrust, and at an AUW of 680 grams so far (fully fibreglassed) its been a model of lightweight engineering.

Battery for this setup is around 2200mah 20c ans 175 grams, certainly not cheap, but its at the other end of the spectrum for foamies and can be classed as a high powered EDF. I have flown the above plane with a 30 gram lighter 1800 pack and it flies real nice, ROG with no wheels, but battery sag is loosing me a bit over 100 grams of thrust at WOT, so the tradeoff of the small weight increase is negligible.

hargravebl

Thanks for the input Extreme, I'm sure everyone would suggest moving to LiPo's to be the way to go...but money being a factor I would like to keep it on a stock NIMH setup....probably not to many of those I know but I want to try and use electronics that I already have instead of buying new gear.

Anyone else flying NIMH setups? Please post setups....batts, ESC's, and such...would help.

Still waiting to hear from you AJ.

AJ1202

Well I found the pics of the batt box mod, What I did was fill the entire nose of the plane with great stuff, now keep in mind the nose on mine had been broke off and I had rebuilt it before so it is not stock nose, anyway after filling the nose I trimmed the bottom flat with the fuse and then carefully trimmed out the cockpit to create a seat for the batt, I hinged the front of the cockpit canopy using packing tape and installed a magnet in the other end and in the fuse.
I think the 1600 batt will work as long as it's not too heavy, I was using a GWS ESC, just a 12 amp cheapy but it worked fine.

hargravebl

Thanks for the visual AJ...I'm thinking I'm going to try this set up. As light as I can get and no gear.

AA 9.6v 1200 or 1600 NiMH batts, GWS ICS-300 ESC, GWS Pico reciever and servos....the only thing that I have worries about is the ICS-300 being able to handle the 1600's if I go that high. Do I maybe need to go to a 25amp ESC as the max for the 300 is 15amps?

AJ1202

OK the ma is of no concern, that's just the amount of power you have to use, the 9.6 if memory serves me right is going to pull 6 amps per motor giving a total of 12 amps at WOT, this was the calc I used when I went to the 9.6 batt, now I have put a 11.1 lipo on the 300,s for a short period a couple of times and didn't fry them, but I wouldn't really suggest that, it never hurts to have a bigger ESC but I think your going to be OK, that's the same ESC I used and it's now running a 480 stryker motor being pushed buy a 3S 1300 lipo

whissel_blowa

While pulling 12 amps might be the case with your 9.6v 1100mah pack, chances are soon as he puts a 1600mah pack in there the motors will draw more current as they are wanting more than the smaller pack can give. His voltage will stay higher due to the larger capacity, hence more amps.

The biggest problem is weight, how heavy are the 1100 and 1600mah packs?? The plane needs to be kept to 20oz max, preferably 17-18oz if you want it to fly well on stock motors.

Larry Dudeck

My Feedback: (1)

I flew mine with a 3Sx2150 LiPo, easy hand launch, 8 minute flights, about 20 oz, AUW. First pair of the 300H motors lasted 40 flights, the second set are still usable, although the A10 is not.

AJ1202

I found that unless you go lipo it's almost impossible to stay under 20 oz and make this plane fly relativly well, mine came in at 22 oz AUW and was pretty quick once it was up and flying, loops were not an option and rolls were a bad idea but it would fly nice and climb fairly good, the 1050 pack weighed 5.6 oz and the 1100 was around 6.1, actualy the 1050 pack did the best job as it was a sqare pack and could be moved farther forward to get CG better than the brick or stick pack like in the first pick of the nose mod
I would have to agree that 1600 will most likely be too heavy, The 1050 was a perfect match for mine

hargravebl

After thinking about it more and reading your posts I think the 1600 will be too heavy...those packs are 8.3oz. I figured I'll go on some custom made 9.6v 1200's that will weigh in around 6.2oz and in a double flat pack (square). I'm going to try and move the batt up under the cockpit like AJ did but I'm not sure. Where did you guys balance on the C/G? I heard the manual is wrong and that ideal CG is around 55-60mm from leading edge?

skyhawknut

My Feedback: (3)

Your stock batteries will not provide sufficiant amps for the 300 motors. If you want to use the 300 motors an 8 cell gp1100 pack will work very well. If you want to use the equipment you have - the 150 motors is what you want. Either way - build light and ditch the gear.

hargravebl

Ordered everything today from Tower so now we wait....excited to start this project.

I ordered the EDF-55 model of course, a couple of HS-55 servos, will use my ICS-300 ESC, got some carbon fiber rods for some modding. Also ordered a couple of custom battery packs...got 2 x 8 cell, 9.6v 1200mahs. Should fly good on that setup from what I have read?

hargravebl

Mid way thru my build up and things are going okay....had to modify the battery compartment to get the 1200s in. Boy do those motors roar under power from the batts also.

hargravebl

Some more build up pics...fuselage is pretty much done as well is the wing. Radio gear installation is coming next....and with the batts she seems nose heavy already. []
Might have to move things back but will see where she balances here first. Paint is coming soon!

AJ1202

Hargraveb, I think the CG posted in the manual is wrong, I think it's more forward than the book says,I seem to remember that about mine, wait untill all is together then check your CG, I think your gonna find you'll be OK. remember to check it with the plane upside down, it's easier to ballance a low ing that way and is more acurate
Looking good so far

hargravebl

Well she is finished....balanced out the C/G round 57mm, don't know what the all up weight is but she seems to weigh just a little more than my Zero. Haven't flown here but did a ground test with the batts...just a click under WOT she lasted for about 7 minutes, what a howler. The electronics were smoking hot after that run which concerns me a bit. Hopefully in flight she will get some air moving over the ESC and such. Anyway, here are the last pics...until she flies anyway. Custom nose art done by me.


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UPDATE - Just got back from flying her....hand launched at full throttle and away she went, climbed right away! Had to give her a lot of up elevator trim but she flew great! Did a couple of circles around the pattern at altitude (drew people out of their houses because the wanted to see what the noise was! ) She flew fast WOT and was very scale in the air...looked like a real A-10. But was able to pull back to half stick on the throttle and cruise...still flew pretty good at half. Cut the engine for a dead stick test...doesn't glide all that well but does the trick. Brought her in for smooth bellly landing and...that was the end of my madien. Very happy.

Only thing is the engines make a terrible grinding sound at full throttle...wondering if the shafts need oil or something?

hargravebl

Had a fire while airborne tonight....turns out the wiring in my battery packs were too small a gauge, over discharged because of the pull from my fans and caught fire. Funny thing was I didn't know about it while flying....just saw a drop in power, thought my battery was dying and brought her in for a landing...

...didn't find out I had a fire until I opened the battery compartment and smoke poured out! :shock: Was able to save the plane by shear luck. If I had continued to fly she would have cought fire in mid air and plummeted to the ground. Lucky me but now I have to order new batteries so I'm grounded. :cry: