Rather B Flying

My Feedback: (3)

I was at my local flying club this past weekend here in Orlando and witnessed Bob Violett himself flying a couple jets with his new Electric Viofan system. All I gotta say is WOW! His F-86 sabre seemed to fly faster than I have seen it fly with a ducted fan piston engine. The verticals were almost endless and best of all the new electric system even sounds like a turbine whining. The motors whine and the sound of the airflow over the airfoil surfaces made for an incredible jet sound. Gone are the days of the arrogant and unrealistic "noise" of glow engines in our jets! I know this may sound like a BVM advertisement but the new Electric VioFan is definately on my wish list for Christmas.

-Michael Garofano

JIMMYTHEEAGLE

My Feedback: (47)

I've been waiting for the bvm set-up to come out but I think the price for the fan, motor and escapement is a little high? Am I out of line or is that a reasonable price to pay? I have a maverick pro that I completed last spring except for paint because I wanted to see the performance and price for the electric conversion before I finished it. I guess I was looking for a complete set-up with batteries for the $1000-1200 price. $1800 though for a complete set up isn't much less than a nice turbine with proven reliability. Jim

CTulanko

Michael,

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I am going to have to go with Jimmy on this one.

There is no doubt that Bob Violett has helped the hobby tremendously in the past and has made one heck of a name for himself and a reputation to go along with it! He has had some amazing innovations with his ICDF and Turbine lines and knows well how to market them. That is where the new EVF comes into play. He realizes there are a ton of his old kits out there sitting in corners and hoping to be re-discovered someday; the EVF gives them the opportunity to do so…thus his marketing prowess is showing in full bloom.

He also admitted that he needed help to get where he wanted in the EDF arena, as it was not his cup of tea so to speak. Bob was smart enough to recruit help from good ESC and motor manufacturers and they worked with him to “tune� the new EVF system to run well. I say the words “new� loosely because he is actually rejuvenating an old Viojett fan design that has been around for a long time, with actual development costs paid in full long since past. While I am sure he had some minor development costs for the EVF, I doubt it was anything compared to when the fan was actually developed years ago or when one of his aircraft were prototyped. Like I said, he is a shrewd business man and can see a market with the best of them now.

What I do not agree on is his costing structure. While everyone can agree there are startup costs with a new product, the EVF is not new. A Viojett fan, motor mount changed for electric and currently marketed NEU motors and Castle Creations ESC’s do not make it a new product…a new package, but not a new item as all the products have been around. He is marketing it though as a completely assembled package, thus trying to justify the cost of balancing, assembly and testing...sorry but the simple steps do not justify a 1/3 price increase...period. He also is not selling just the fan as he knows anyone with a brain would not pay $650 for the EVF fan unit (the remaining cost when the motor and ESC price are removed) when there are stronger, lighter and better fans out there at half that cost! Heck, you can find used Viojett fans right here on R/C Universe for under $300 and that includes a motor, tuned pipe, etc...yea, he is way off base on this one.

Even the most powerful fan to date on the market, the Schuebler DS94 at a max of 19lbs thrust along with the same NEU motor that is in the EVF and the same Castle Creations ESC comes to around $875! The DS fan is pre balanced and if you cannot screw the motor to a mount, install the fan and connect five wires, then you will soon learn you don’t belong in EDF. I am sorry, but the Viojett EVF at $1200 is way overpriced and for a surcharge of $325+ for assembly and packaging...well, do the math!

However, it is BVM, so people will “think� it’s a deal, especially the target audience which I am sure are the current turbine fliers. They will go along and buy the unit because Bob says so and stay oblivious to the fact they are paying more for less. The smart EDF fliers though that have been around a while already know what this is all about and realize it is no bargain. The word will eventually get out as it always does, and it will not be to BVM’s benefit.

Like I said, I have nothing against Bob Violett in any way and very much respect what the man has done for our hobby. I also have no problem paying what he charges for his models and accessories because you get what you pay for with Bob…he is in my opinion the best for Jets and if you want top of the line, get a BVM. Moreover, I do not have a problem when you use old technology fans with currently available motors and ESC’s and call it innovative…he did a decent job matching a motor to the fan and the system does work well.

I do however have a problem when he tries to market it at a cost which I believe to be outrageous for a mid range product! Just because it’s BVM though, people will unknowingly probably buy into it, which is a shame, especially for a unit that he could more reasonably sell for $995, which would draw in a MUCH larger crowd and he'd still make a good profit. For now, I personally will stick with the real innovators of EDF like the TF-4000 and the Schuebler DS94 … at half the price, better quality, lighter all carbon fiber components and a max of 19lbs of thrust compared to the lesser 12lbs from the Violett EVF, I will take the other side of the coin any day of the week…but that is only because I know better. Maybe in time other fliers will “know better� too, BVM will drop their price to a more reasonable charge and our hobby will benefit from a vendor that cares enough to provide a good product to a larger audience at a more reasonable cost. Only time will tell.

Carl

bruff

My Feedback: (18)

But I think BVM will be selling more EVF units than DS 94 or TF-4000. Also parts and service will be alot easier. The DS-94 does not take much abuse. Very easy to damage the shroud. I have owned 4 of the DS-94 fan units. I will be replacing some of them with the EVF.. To used the DS-94 or TF-4000 in an existing BVM jet a number of mods need to be done. With the EVF no changes are required.
Bob

CTulanko

Bob,

I do agree that BVM will most likely sell more fans than the others, just becasue he is Bob Violett and it is convenient. Moreover, the EVF is a drop in unit and while the performance is not what I would coinsider stellar, it works well enough without mods for his line of jets. It was smart on his part to make his jets propriatary, but that can also come around and bite you in the end. I also have no problem paying a premium for his models as they are of top quality.

I do however very much disagree with his pricing structure on the EVF fan unit...it is way out of line for older technology and that is my point. I won't be trying one unless they get with the program and stop charging $400+ more for a lesser product. You may ask, do I have to buy one...no I do not. But do I have the right to say something about it ... you're darn right I do and I will be sure that my voice is heard.

Carl

bruff

My Feedback: (18)

Well his older technology is still producing 14 lbs of thrust on a test stand. The Viper at Superman was clocked at 160+ MPH while Chris Trues EDF version was 145+ MPH. If I remember correctly. There is nothing wrong with old tech. Even Jet Hanagar is coming out with their E-Turbax fan. If it works use it.
In the future I think most EDF modelers( non-geek types) with be flying EVF & E-turbax fans due to avaliablity and support. The reason is that the most of the 5" ducted fan kits on the market today can and will be flying with these units with very few mods. The newer fans(TF-4000 & DS-94) required changes to the airframe to allow them to work properly. I'm even working on doing an electric version of the Byron fan, now that is old tech!
Carl you are correct you do have a right to speak your mind. and I support that! One thing on BVM pricing. the EVF is about the same price the the BVM glow version was selling for a few years ago. His stuff was never inexpensive.

Bob

P. Richards

My Feedback: (3)

Speed yes longevity not yet, that fan and motor combo is still eating speed controls for lunch the F-86 turned the speed control into a smoke system and had a very impressive smoke trail. Smoke and electronics don't mix well together, until a BVM cooling system works this project will not have the success that we are all looking for. This has always been a problem for high powered electric ducted fan units. I spoke with BV briefly at Florida Jets and he stated that they were still working on the cooling issues apparently they have not resolved it yet.

P. Richards aka Swat Team

CTulanko

Bob,

I agree with you 100%, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using old technology if it works, and BVM has for the most part got it to work. Also as you stated, it appears those efforts may be the beginning of a rejeuvenation for many of the mid sized models still out there. You really cracked me up when when you mentioned the Byron...I still have one sitting in the corner myself!

Also, I agree 100% that BVM stuff is expensive, you get what you pay for and his products are the best. The old glow setup with the motor, fan, smooth stop, pipe, header was indeed around $1100-1200, depending on which motor you wanted. I wish I had an older add lying around to find the price on the individual items. However, in this case it is not his stuff as only one of the three main components are actually from BVM and due to that very fact, we can deduce what he actually wants to over charge for the fan. I am pretty darn sure the Viojett fan was not $650, which is about what he is charging now once you remove the retail cost of the motor and ESC.

Note I said retail cost and I would be willing to bet his overcharge is even more wholesale, probably well over $700 when all is said and done. Sure there is and should be a charge for balancing the fan, bolting in the motor, mounting the fan and hooking up the ESC, but that is one very excessive price for such a small amount of work and that is where I have a problem. If it was all his design, I would say great! No problem! $1200 is fine for something you machined and build from the bottom up. Just don't insult our intelligence by charging an outrageous premium for something when you are only resposible for designing 1/3 of the assembly!

At $900 retail in parts and another $50-100, we'll say $100 for assembly since it is BVM...I feel $999 is much more reasonable, looks better on paper since it is less than 4 digits and it would appeal to a larger audience. It's also better marketing for BVM as it could revive his old, already paid for product line. This would all be moot point if he built everything, but that is not the case, we already know what most of the components cost and that is the pricing downfall with the EVF. Those of us already in EDF know what things should cost as we have invested thousands in the hobby. Sure his target market may be different, but people will eventually learn what we know and it could very well hurt BVM in the end. I am sure yourself and I have paid in spades for equipment, but I am seeing a bit of vanity here by BVM and I have zero tolerance for it, am not shy and will call it like I see it. If I am wrong, I will be big enough say so, but for now, I say and have backed up my statements that the EVF is way out of line on its price...question is will BVM be big enough to admit it or will they continue to over charge a ridiculous premium out of greed. That is a problem.

Carl

Had to edit some stuff out as P Richards stepped in with the smoking gun while I was composing ... but I gotta say it. The difference is Chris is still flying his with the same batteries, where as BVM is back to the drawing board.

bruff

My Feedback: (18)

Carl I agree with you 100%. We will see, I have never seen BVM lower a price once it was announced. On the F-86 blowing controlers. Bob Violett was concerned because he was blowing them( 2 at Superman) up in the F-86 only the other three EVF were working fine. Even CC could not figure it out. I was told his third ESC is working fine in the F-86 now. If I get the Byron fan working, let's see if you can get yours flying electric.
Bob

3DownLow

My Feedback: (4)

Saw the Viper and the F-86 fly on the same power unit recently. Wow! The F-86 had impressive vertical and nice scale looks, but the Viper was awesome! The vertical for an EDF this size was incredible. I think EDF's will soon be able to match turbines in performance after watching this one blast thru the air. It will only get better.

turnnburn

My Feedback: (49)

Isnt there more to performance than just static thrust. Exhaust velocity is very important. Im curious what the exhaust velocity is of the 19lb static thrust unit you speak of. The old Byron fans had quite a bit more static thrust than a BVM fan unit but id take the BVM unit for speed and flight performance.

John Redman

My Feedback: (8)

Keep in mind the unit is made in America and supports American wages as well. The retooling cost for the new shroud and centerbody mount is another thing that I don't believe you guys are looking at. The rotor is the same yes, but the new all carbon afterbody fairing is new and is not cheap to lay up, no to mention the other items in the system. And you will have full support. Of course I am sure you guys think that support comes cheap by the way of buildings, being at events, and staff to help the cutomer out. It all cost money, one way or another. If you believe it is too much, then so be it, live with something else. If you want a unit that will be fully supported at events, 365 days a year, then you might want to look at the new EVF. I can't even remember how many times I have seen BV hand parts out, complete rotors, tuned pipes, retract units, etc at events over the years to ensure a customer gets back in the air, and they never handed over a penny. That cost BV something as well and he believes it is necessary to ensure a prime product. I am sure there are a few guys out there that have been helped that way.

Your choice, buy what you want. If you like support, you might consider the options. Once again keep in mind it is American made, and not built overseas.

CTulanko

John,

Where a product is made unfortunately doesn’t mean it is superior. In fact, the majority of good EDF airframes are actually made overseas, as are some of the best fans, motors and accessories. When it comes to purchasing our products these days, many are actually made overseas, but that does not necessarily make them inferior. Now I am all for doing my part to keep jobs in America, however that does not mean that I should expect to pay excessive prices for products when they are out of line with the market and possibly inferior to those in Europe.

I will say that in the world of EDF, we are fortunate to also have great American vendors and I would come to expect BVM to be no exception to this rule, but rather a great addition! As previously stated, I have the highest respect for what he has done for the hobby and his products are some of the best available. If you want the best, there is a cost and you get what you pay for, which is a great product. However, that does not mean that they can charge what can be seen as an excessive price for and item and we are not allowed to say something about it.

BVM is new at EDF and has freely admitted it. You stated there are tooling costs, but that is true with similar products overseas that are made in house without the benefit of cheap labor. Moreover, these overseas products are EDF items of which the entire product was engineered; as you stated, BVM only needed to spend some time in changing a motor mount and adding a faring, and while there is some investment incurred, that does not mean he necessarily had anywhere near the startup costs of the other vendors, especially when the most difficult and expensive item on the list to develop is a rotor that performs well. They already had that part in the bag thanks to the old Viojett; I say hats off to them for making it work!

I do not feel though the fan alone is worth the $650+ premium he is charging, even when giving them the benefit of the doubt with higher labor costs and tooling, which was most likely less than that of other vendors charging less than half that price! I see you are a Rep, so I understand your reason for defending BVM, but that does not make his price on the EVF any more justifiable. I would challenge you to give me a price from one of your old catalogs for the original Viojett fan unit and I would be willing to bet it’s no where near the price I quoted above, hence my point is made…they are overcharging.

Good service was mentioned and with BVM that cannot be denied. Bob has done much for his customers and I have all the respect in the world for him and his business. That does not mean though that you will not get the same kind of support from the other vendors. Also, if we are to expect BVM to going above and beyond with all our purchases as you stated, then it should be stated on paper up front when you buy the item so you know what to expect, just like a service contract you get with other purchases. While they have been good in the past, there is no guarantee that they would do so every time in the future.

As I said, their good service in the past should be commended, however, the BVM marketing department could use some tips when it comes to pricing strategy. They were smart enough to recruit help from the manufacturers during the development of the EVF and appear to have dropped the ball when it comes to determining price for value.

If they had developed it all as one package though, this conversation would not be taking place. We, myself included, would go on our merry way knowing they developed the entire power package and had no problem paying what is asked. However, those of us in EDF for a while know what the retail is on the non BVM parts, which is their current downfall in pricing as we can determine what the excessive cost is of the standalone fan unit.

Like I said, if you can do some research and find what the old fan costs and it is even close to the $650-700 retail premium they are putting on the current EVF fan, then I will be more than happy to support the cost and retract everything I stated. Will I continue to buy other BVM products…absolutely! Someone else above stated that while I may be correct in my analysis, they have never dropped an announced price…maybe it’s time they stepped up to the plate, realized they made a bad call and break that record so that more people can enjoy the product. Right now though, I am not seeing it, I am not feeling it and I am not buying it…as you said, it’s my choice, as is my choice to say something about it when I feel it is wrong. Moreover, I have stated why it’s wrong and overpriced and challenge you to prove otherwise. Until then, I will say it should be no more than $1000 for the EVF and I will continue to say so.

Carl

turnnburn

My Feedback: (49)

Carl,

I have a 2003 catalog that shows the price of the fan unit at $295. Based and this price and your logic I would say your correct and that the modeler is paying approx a $ 300 premium.

Now let me tell you why I'm not that upset about paying a premium and am strongly considering buying one.

First of all you assume that BVM sold enough of the Glow powered DF units over the years to cover his initial research, tooling and so on. I dont know if they did or didnt but I do know the the costs were steep. Secondly I think you fail to note that the shroud has been retooled at some additional costs.

But the main reason for me is that while I have knowledge about Glow Df and turbines I dont know hardly anything about EDF. I have a BVM T-33 ready to fly that is still Glow Df powered. Now I could ( with a lot of research and a little luck) probably buy a European Fan unit and an electric motor and speed control and then do some sort of inlet modification and adapt it to my T-33 and it might fly as well and it might even out perform to some small extent the BVM EDF unit. The chances are I would have to try a few differant fans, or motors, or speed controls to get a satisfactory result and by then I will have spent more $$ and far more time. I would guess I can drop this unit in my airplane and have it ready to fly easily in one night. That is well worth the additonal cost to ME.

You say the BVM marketing department blew it, I say the other EDF manutacturers that you speak of blew it. Somebody would have been wise to make a "drop in" EDF conversion to fit all the old Mavericks and Vipers etc etc that are sitting in guys workshop corners and beat BVM to the punch. Why didnt anybody do so ??? Perhaps the costs of research and development would have made their units as costly or more so than BVM's.

If another "drop in "unit exists out there for less $$ please tell me and I'll certainly consider buying it instead of the BVM unit. Im always glad to save some $$ when and where I can. Especially if the performance and service options are as good or better.

These are the opinions of a NON BVM rep. Nor am I in anyway in BVMs inner circle. Im just a guy like you who likes to fly jets and appreciates the time and efforts of a manufacturer of items that, if the modeler follows the instructions, WORK ! I will pay their price to have done the leg work for me and to insure my immediate success.

Brian

CTulanko

Brian,

Actually I didn’t assume that BVM sold enough to recover initial costs, nor does that actually matter at this point because any potential losses would have been written off a long time ago. They are however in business to make money and promote a hobby and I seriously doubt they would not adjust the initial price of the Viojett to cover startup. As that being the case, then why is there such a huge price gap? Also, I did not fail to note tooling costs and if you re-read my previous statement, I actually noted this in both the third and fourth paragraph, so your statements in that regard are false.

What I did say and am re-iterating is that their startup/development costs were no doubt reflected in the price of the initial fan, hence that should still hold true for the new fan. Now that you bring it up though, we should actually see a decrease in cost due to the fact that the most expensive item of the EVF to develop and get right was made long ago with costs long since written off. A smart vendor would thank us by passing those cost savings back down to the customer via a reduction in their price and because of this, the fan should actually be priced less than the original retail of $295! Some exception should be taken into consideration, to include pre-assembly and cost of living increases, however a difference of $350-400+ is outrageous and in no way reflects a reasonable charge.

Since you are new to EDF, you really have no idea how much BVM’s efforts to enhance and compliment the EDF world with the creation of a drop in unit will most likely effect the hobby. It takes a couple of major players to kick start a major swing into this market and BVM is one of those that can make a difference. The EVF is a great idea and I am sure was expected to draw out the old glow/turbine fliers and I am glad to see you jumping on board.

However, do not continue thinking that this is all new, nor should you believe you cannot get several good choices in correct setups from the old school EDF fliers. They have already done the work for you over the years, spending obscene amounts of time and money getting setups tuned, which in turn saves you the cost you mentioned of experimenting. They are a great bunch of guys, are glad to help and will do what it takes to make you successful. If you wish to try something different later on, be sure to know the support is there.

Also, while you may be new to EDF, EDF is not new and over the years has developed into an entity of its own. Vendors such as BVM jumping in the game are last minute proof that efforts long past to improve the hobby were not wasted, nor should they be forgotten or overlooked. The other EDF manufacturers you mentioned did not “blow� it…they spent time, loads of money and hard work to make the EDF hobby what it is today and had you known and thought this through before hand, you would not be so quick to judge. It is them you should thank for pushing the envelope, working with other manufacturers to produce better and better products to the point where we now have the motor, ESC and battery technology that can support your hobby.

These are the guys that were producing products long ago, developing high power systems that are the for-runners to the EVF unit. Moreover, they continue to bring great products to the market and should not be looked on any less than a new arrival such as BVM. If it were not for their efforts, I doubt the EVF would ever have come to fruition. Their so called costs of research and development you mentioned I am sure are long since past. Additionally, you should come to realize the fact that the technology in ESC’s and especially batteries to make the EVF practical were not present as little as six months ago and are a result of these manufacturer’s efforts. Even with the limited technology of the past, these other manufacturers continued with their efforts to improve the hobby. Do I have a problem with BVM jumping on the bandwagon, of course not! However, I also believe in giving credit where credit is due.

As far as other units becoming available, I know of the E-Turbax in testing right now and expect them to at least get their costs in line with the value of the product. As you stated, we are guys who just like to fly jets, we are not affiliated with any manufacturers and we do indeed appreciate the efforts of the manufacturers. However, being new to EDF, you need to know that BVM is not the only one that works, but it is rather a resultant product of the hard work of many other manufacturers that have been making it work for a long time.

Does this make the EVF any less of a product, no way! With the facts I presented though, it does make the EVF what I consider an obscenely overpriced product for the current EDF market!!! I for one will not support it, I will continue to back my statements up with the facts and common sense analysis and challenge you to do the same. Thanks to the facts and analysis I have presented so far, I believe the EVF is overpriced by several hundred dollars...period. Can you prove otherwise???

Carl

turnnburn

My Feedback: (49)

Carl,

I agree, its overpriced. But Im willing to pay that, or consider paying it for a DROP IN, sure fire success. I dont doubt the technology isnt cutting edge, but I ask you, WHO ELSE can I turn to TODAY and buy a DROP IN guanteed successfull unit that will give equal of better performance. The answer is, NOBODY else.

I know this unit isnt perfect, its more expensive than I expected it to be and the run times are on the short side, but I dont see an alternative, TODAY. You show me one for less dollars and I'll buy it and fly it.

Brian

bruff

My Feedback: (18)

Also remember the the EVF system is assembled , tested & ran before it is sold. When you receive it is ready to bolt into your jet. Charge your batteries and go fly. That is one thing that is not being offered by anybody else. Not the DS-94 or the Turbo 4000. That is why people will pay BVM the $200 cost over a DS-94 system. Fan $340.00, CC 110HV ESC $230.00, Nue 1527/1.5Y $370.00. Total $940.00 plus you still have to assemble and test it .

John Redman

My Feedback: (8)

Carl,

You make some very valid points above and I respect those. What BVM sets as prices for his items is his business and always has been. Some may say he is overpriced, and other's seem to think his prices are a bargin for the performance you receive. Doesn't matter much, pay your dollars and his stuff works, period.

My opinion is this. I honestly believe the EDF market is very small. Much smaller than the turbine market, BVM's main income. The concept to me of paying the serious wads of cash for batteries is ridiculous. I would rather spend a few extra dollars (not many) and fly with a turbine. That is my opinion only. I do believe BV understands the market, he has proven this for the last 23 years. He has his ideas of what the market will bear and what return he will see and has priced accordingly. I do believe that is a lesson in the great world of economics and business. He has proven this time and time again with his superior products.

Either way, buy it or leave, the choice is yours. Overpriced or not, only an opinion. But the bottom line is this:

No other manufacturer supports his product line in the world of jets better than BVM. He is giving a new life to all of the older BVM DF airframes guys have lying around, which can be delivered in only one or two nights work, and a minimal amount at that. If they want to resurect their older DF airframes with electric power, then they know this will indeed work. There is no guess work period. And that I will say, cost money. No experimenting at all, just order it up and drop it in and go fly, definitely a nice point to most.

It appears as though you have done an extensive amount of R&D in the EDF world yourself. If this is the case I truely respect that and can totally understand your position. But think about the guy who has never done the electric thing and wants to jump into an EDF airframe overnight. The concept BV has brought to life is well worth the investment of their hobby dollars.

Let the EVF price be what it is. I do believe it is a deal for what I woudl call a regular jet modeler who has never played in the electric market. I think a fair amount of guys would agree. If it is too much, then get one of those other units and mod the airframe to make them fit. I doubt the performance will be the same in a BVM airframe if you make the mods. The inlets and exhaust systems have been matched and tuned to the EVF rotor and shroud, and I do believe the BVM unit will blow the competition away when operated in a BVM airframe.

wind junkie

My Feedback: (1)

As a newcomer to EDFs. I find all this very interesting. I've always considered BVM's jets to have the highest "drool factor" of any jet offerings available.

If I could equip a Viper, Bandit or Aggressor with a powerplant that would top 150 mph and give 5 - 7 minutes of flight time without overstressing the power system, I'd drop $2-$4K into a dream jet.

But looking at BVM's site now, I don't think the technology is really there yet. Why would a 2 stage throttle mix be needed if he wasn't overstressing the batteries, or motor, or ESC? It's obvious BVM is looking to sell something soon, but I really hope he isn't going to rely in his customers for finishing the R&D phases of these projects.

Let me ask you guys THIS question:

You seem to like the DS 94 fan. Can that make a nice big jet that looks like a Viper (no kangaroo or bobcat types) go over 150 mph for 5-7 minutes? I have to believe since you're not thrilled with the EVF, you must have a "substitute" that will fill the same need. I don't necessarily care if it "drops in" to a BVM jet, but guys like me really want the quality of BVM, and the performance of the old ICDF systems with the cool factor and sound of an EDF.

Can you point me to some threads that show how this is done? I have recently found some of Chris True's work, and I sincerely tip my hat to him for his investiment and willingness to share. But I'm finding that there's still a lot of R&D to be done as the state of the art still really can't match what the old IC BVM kits did. I think everyone can realize that guys like Chris further the state of the art, but it's a long process, and I'd wager Chris wouldn't do this unless he found it fun. For guys who make a living at this sort of thing, I don't mind one bit paying a premium for all that R&D, no matter where it comes from. If Chris were to suddently start selling systems, I'd buy one in a heartbeat if it could match the performance I'm looking for. Right now it looks like a BVM system will be in my future, but not the near future.

redneckteddy103

just pics i know nothing

P. Richards

My Feedback: (3)

The bottom line is this, large high power EDF jets is still in it's infancy in the U.S. whether it is BV or Jet Hanger Hobbies John Redman stated," My opinion is this. I honestly believe the EDF market is very small. Much smaller than the turbine market," In America yes but I talked with Charlie Wang here in Las Vegas the owner of Thunder Power batteries and most of his sales are overseas. In Europe the EDF market is huge and they have been building and flying a lot longer than the U.S. We are just beginning to embrace large EDF's. The speed control technology for larger jets is still being sorted out. If BV or someone else could import or develop better speed controls and ways of cooling, there will be no limit to the growth of the EDF market. Thanks to Daniel Schuebler, Steve Neu and Hacker motors, we have solved the majority of problems with fan and motor issues, however the last hurdle is not a drop in EVF but a speed control that can handle the loads required for high performance output for more than 4 minutes. Once BV or anyone else solves that one I will pay top dollar just for the peace of mind. I get tired of burning up $300.00 speed controls for just one flight.

P. Richards aka Swat Team

Sluf7

At the end of the day a MAJOR manafacture has entered the Electric world as the technology as got to a point where they are able to be applied to his current fleet at minimal overall cost. [8D]

As always people will pay for the easy drop in style of his EDF system.[8D]

Hopefully more manafaturers will do the same.

juninhodunai

Videos EDF????

flo

Hi all,
been quite intresting so far.
Here is my opinion:
1. BVM jets are top line
2. The EVF is way overpriced in a way even Mercedes Benz would not dare to do so.
3. Even if retail of single units is in aprox 1000 USD.
so what? A DS 94 comes balanced as well!! Ask a few questions about
what works, order your parts and maybe do a few mods on your plane,
too much work`? only to safe 300USD?
4. All the effort "only" to get a top line- and far superior product for less money?

5. The support of Schübeler ; Aeronaut,... and Wemo ... will be as good as Bobs.
5. Schübeler and all the others do give out freebees as well - only it is "over here"
more or less, so you simply might have not noticed.
I personally have not herard about BVM giving away anything, same thing aother way round :-)


Buy what ever you want, i will always buy THE BEST for my money, simply adjust the things nessecary.

greetings

flo

flo

Btw,
have seen a prototype of an esc, at the aspach e-meet a year ago, that handles 2, and the other 4 KW constant, up to 12 KW peak without getting even warm :-)

Have to search their flyer though or ask a buddy what their company was called.

grretings

flo