PrkFlyrRic

Well based on the measurements a brushless inrunner won’t fit in the stock fan housing.
The inside where the FK-130 motor fits is sized to the oblong shape and would have to be cleaned out with a Dremel to fit a round inrunner.
It looks as a 180 size motor will fit but all you would get from this is a small weight gain and a small gain in torq. To use the torq you’d need a different impeller.
So really a complete upgrade to a larger fan unit with brushless inrunner and then a complete switch of the Rx and ESC to handle the battery voltage.

Although a change to 7.4 LiPo should not be a problem and give a decent weight savings and a small boost to power, plus with higher mAh LiPo’s, a longer flight time.

Ric

PrkFlyrRic

I got in four flights wtih the AF1 this evening just before dark.
Anybody know how much that weight in the nose is supposed to weigh?
I lost mine several flights back and I'd like to replace it.
I tried some solder wraped in a coil but I didn't use enough, the nose still lifts to much on full power.
Ric

ehroof

i dont know the weight, if you tell me where it is and how to get to it, i will take it out and let you know. Did you take the af2 out?

shschon

My Feedback: (4)

I have converted these little fans to brushless. Very easy to do just use dremel to remove the ribs holding the odd shape of the 130 motors.
Any 20 mm brushless motor would fit fine and for good performance on 3 cell you need about 4300~5000KV brushless motor.
I have used razor micro heli v2 (4300KV) and ARC 80W (4500KV) motors with good results.
Pulls only 6~7Amp on 3 cell but producing 7 oz thrust using stock impeller (easy push on type on 2 mm shaft).

If you want to stay brushed you can switch to 180 motor. It is a drop in fit. The extra torque can be put to use by using higher voltage. Works pretty well on 3 cell LiPo. Draws about 4 Amps and output about 4 oz+ thrust.

PrkFlyrRic

Eddie,
I don't want you cutting up your AF1 untill you need to. But once you start flying it keep an eye on the skid, it'll break-up and come off pretty easy.
The weight is under the hard plastic nose skid and inside a hole in the fuse.
I'll just keep adding weight until I get good flight again.

I just received the replacement AF2 fan from Estes, works fine.
Depending on the rain storms I hope to fly it this weekend.

shschon,
Good info, I'll have to remember for when I finally switch it over.

Ric

ehroof

let me know how the af2 does, i havent flown either yet, hate to craxh them, lol. let me know which is easier to fly and launch.

PrkFlyrRic

I was able to get two flights on the AF2 today before rain clouds moved in and the wind came back.
Flight Conditions: Middle of the day, winds about 2mph, temp around 80, and humidity about 75%.
Plane set-up: Assembled as per Estes instructions, balanced at the factory recommended CG, no modifications, or added weight.
Flight: Hand launch. Flight is slow, slower than the AF1. Climb; slow, needed 80yds straight flight to climb to 80ft at full power, Turns; slow, could not get it to turn tight enough to lose control. With just turn control it will enter a large corkscrew that is easily exited. Glide; very good. Landings were very easy and smooth, it does take a large glide path to touch down and a pulse of power about 2ft off the ground will lift the nose for a gentle slide.
At recommended CG I could not get it to stall.
Overall; I think it needs the battery moved forward a bit to increase the air speed for a little better turning but I’m not sure how that will affect climb-out.
I will have to cover the lower part of the fans with clear packing tape, as after only two flights they are showing a lot of wear.
The AF2 flies slower and turns slower than the AF1, it can not handle the wind the AF1 can, anything 5mph and up will over power the fans and make turning very hard. You will need a large football field or more, to fly this plane.
Total flight time per battery was approx. 5 minutes.
Not bad but the winds and lack of power will make it an occasional flier.
Ric

ehroof

thank for the info, i will put some tape on the engines before i take flight, sound like i should try the af2 first, easier to fly?

PrkFlyrRic

The AF1 is a little faster, turns better and can handle some wind.
The AF2 is slower and can't handle any wind.
If you've never flown a ducted fan before I'd suggest the AF2 and little to no wind.
Ducted fan planes react to control a little slower because of the fan, (it takes them longer to spool up and produce thrust than a open propeller), and these two channel planes are even slower to react.
But because they are so lite weight there's less chance of a crash hurting them.
Catch a day when the winds are low and Just Do It.
Ric

PrkFlyrRic

I have;
Estes AF1
Estes AF2
Silverlit 737 (2 ea)
and a Megatech A-7.
All are two channel ducted fan, Nimh battery, planes.
I have a minimun of ten flights on all except the AF2 and have broken only one, (737, repaired in one night with epoxy).
I have slamed the AF1 and Sliverlit planes into the ground more than once and only broke the 737 because the CG was way off.
If I'd learn to keep them up higher then I wouldn't crash so much, I keep trying to fly them low because I like low overhead or just in front, passes.
I also have three, three channel and a four channel prop planes, I do the same with them, if I'd keep them higher than 20ft I'd fly more and repair less. [8D]
And five AirHogs Aero Aces that just get beat around and cut up with mods. I've never keep an AA stock for more than a day or two.
Ric

Flying 442

Great info from all, Thanks!. I have both the AF1 and AF2 sitting around waiting on bashing. This info will really help. Knowing that there is a weight in the nose will help with lipo placement so I can remove non-working weight. I have a large airforce of warbirds, so holding off flying these until others break the new ground (brushed and brushless motor upgrades) is no problem.

Now if only I could find a way to make it leave a CON Trail in the sky, hmmm. Thanks again for the info, keep it coming. Jon

winbe

I am new to flying at 35 years old and new to this site. I am a Wal-Mart associate and bought this AF1 Four Engine plane for $60 at our associate store. I have say it was a great bargain. I also have to say that I was very frustrated to start. The first time I got it out it climbed and stalled and dropped like a rock into the field where someone had dumped some quickrete (what luck?). It broke the nose cone right off and just shattered the plastic nose coating and breaking the right wing completely off. Of course I also lost my weight, which I didn't even know it had until a couple of nights ago reading on this board. Since then, after several Gorilla gluings I could never get it off the ground for long. It would want to bank right and slam to the ground. I have had it caught about 30 ft. up in a tree and had some pretty bad crash landings. I have broken the styrofoam engine mounts off 3 of the 4 engines and broken my tail fin twice as well. Lets just say that Gorilla glue has made this plane stronger that it was before, but it has seen better days.

NOW TO THE GOOD PART...My dad found the Center of Gravity dots under the wing last night and we cut off a bolt and taped it in the weight hole and it flew beautifully. Tonight I flew it and actually was able to wear my batteries down and come home unbroken for the first time in about 7 tries. I was soaring at around 80ft. and 200 yards away(I think) and it was great. It really looked like a 747 in the distance that high up. You do need a HUGE field for this plane as the turns are slow and the range is long. I haven't gotten the landing down yet, but I will. It glides great too. I lost the bolt that we put in last night and for some reason it still works like a champ today and doesn't bank right like it did before the bolt. I can't figure that one out. Anyone looking to buy this plane, I would recommend it. I use the bungee cord and kind of enjoy launching that way. I like to see the plane start low to the ground and then flare up. I just hold the throttle open and let go of the plane

I would love to have a smaller plane to fly in a smaller area if anyone as any suggestions.

DAVE ESPI mentioned the ESTES Sky Rangers 4162, but I can't find it anywhere online. I'd like to try a nice cheap plane like that. Even though $60 was a steal for the AF1, It still is a lot of money and my stomach drops everytime I slam it to the ground. Crashing $20 would be upsetting buy not as bad.

So this is what I'm looking for if anyone has any input, it would be appreciated.
1. Small area flying
2. < $30
3. Best battery life

Thanks in advance. I love this board so far, except I stay up too late reading. My wife and I are expecting our first child so she's probably not too excited about me starting a new hobby, but I can't resist.

PrkFlyrRic

winbe,
Welcome to R/C flying and RCU. Great to hear you got the AF1 flying.
If your looking for a plane that is almost break proof, will teach you the very basics and be cheap, check out the Air Hogs Aero Ace.
Do a search here on the forums for Aero Ace and see the great things said about them, I have 5 now.
They will fly in a good sized back yard and are lots of fun. The Bi-wing plane is best to start with.
Plus you can get more than one channel, (different colors = different channels), so you can fly with/against your Dad.
Walmart sells them around $30 and you can probably get them cheaper.
Yes, they look like a "toy" but they work great and are fun.
Check out the mods page here on the forums also, all sorts of things can be and are done to them.
Before you buy just about any R/C planes or equipment do a search here and see what others are saying so you waste as little money as possible.
Welcome again.
Ric

PrkFlyrRic

Took the AF2 out and tried to fly it in winds a little too strong Sunday morning.
A 6 story school building jumped out in front of it.
Full power with a tail wind, nose first into the brick wall. [X(]
Broke the horizontal tail on impact and half landed on the roof. 6-8 inches higher and it would have cleared the building and maybe flown over.
The battery popped out and the plane and battery fell straight to the concrete sidewalk, (again nose first).
Broke the plastic under the nose but the weight stayed in, (yes, the AF2 has the weight also), and kinda mushed the nose some.
Probably could have repaired it and flew it again but for the half tail on the roof, I'm gonna have to order a new one.
So the AF2 is down for a couple of weeks.
Flooding rain forecast for the next week so I don't think I'll get much flying in anyway. [&o]
I'll post a picture tomorrow of the weight and location.
I need to get a scale to weigh it.....
Ric

winbe

Thanks Ric. Sorry to hear about the crash. I bought an Aero Ace today. It was fun, but pretty windy so not much control all of the time. I'm looking forward to flying it more. What are the three aluminum sticker squares for in the box? The instructions don't say anything about them.

Thanks, David

ehroof

sorry to hear about the af2, i still havent flown mine yet, too busy for the past few weeks

PrkFlyrRic

David,
The three aluminum stickers are supposed to be used as weights to help balance the Aero Ace.
They don't do much though, most of the time if you need weight, it will be in the nose and a small washer works better.
Ric

PrkFlyrRic

The small amount of damage a full power, nose first, slam into a brick wall and 60-70ft fall, nose first into a concrete sidewalk will do.
Not much.
Also the location of the AF2 nose weight. 26.66mm x 5.99mm steel. Basicly a 1/4 x 1-1/6in steel rod.

ehroof

Hey Ric,

hows the af1 and af2 doing, did you get the af2 fixed?

PrkFlyrRic

Between work and the rain I haven't been able to do much of anything.
I hope to order the tail and maybe one of Estes park fighters next week.

Eddie, You get that AF2 in the air yet ?

Dave ESPI, what's up ? You been flying ?

Later,
Ric

ehroof

no bro, i have been flying the nitro's. I've been busy with work too, been going to the flying field on sundays when i can. I have been flying my superstart select .40. By the time the winds die down here its late, i will be going upstate in the next few weeks and box them up and bring them and try it then, the winds die out like 5pm or earlier up there, i live off the ocean in ny so its always windy.

Joe 1320

My suggestion:

http://www.bphobbies.com/view.asp?id=B1828517

these things rock. I get really long flight times, excellent performance with the stock motor, two 5g servos and micro esc and rx. Overall, I think it's the best small park flyer out there. the performace is great and replacement parts are readily available. For $20 per kit, you can't go wrong.

PrkFlyrRic

FYI for all who own the AF2.
They have been discontinued. [X(]
Almost all the parts are gone at Estes.
When I ordered my stabilizer Friday the sales person said that it was the last stabilizer and all the ducted fans were gone also.

The AF1 is not far behind. It has been discontinued and parts are going fast.

Ric

ehroof

wow, not good huh. did you get all the parts you needed??

Dave ESPI

Winbe,
Walmart also carries this ESTES Sky RANGERS plane, but the assortment # is different.
TRU is Sky Rangers 4160
http://www.estesrockets.com/products.php?number=4160

WALMART is Sky Rangers 4162, but it is for the twin engine Cessna, not the 20.00 one.
See my "hanger" for a picture of it.
I have 4 of them sittig here now one is smashed, the second is my daily flier, and the other 2... well I ;ll be keeping them till I need to replace my "daily" Over 35 flights on it now, and It really is awesome at 20.00 !
Oh, and the COX warbirds are great too. I have 2 them comming in the mail this week also.


AS to my AF1......... well it hangs over my work bench, and I have not flown it in quite some time. I do turn it on occasionaly.. it's engines are still some of the coolest sounding ones I've ever heard for an EDF

I did pick up another ESTES Sky Rangers style plane that is a lill cessna, but it doesn't seem to want to take off with a TAXI, so I may try hand launching it tomorrow with a good 5 mph headwind.