markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

Finally did it. Purchased the BVM Electra Jet kit, something I have wanted to do after several years of studying model jets. Even with more than 40 years of experience modelling was more than a little nervous about tackling such a project by myself. I'm just an average modeller with no special skills or experience, just lots of years of building/flying/crashing/building/flashing/crashing you know, smiling all the while!! Fortunately, I live only a few miles from the BVM facility which is filled with very helpful folks (including the founder Bob Violett) and have a couple of friends Bob Fiorenze "Fio" and Mickey Nowell who are among the best at what they do when it comes to models. Thought it might be a worthwhile effort to share what I am learning about building such a model from these guys as I go through its construction and perhaps you might learn something as well, or have some suggestions yourself. It's not my intention to provide step by step instructions, because they are included in the kit , just share what I am learning about building this model as we go along.

Here are my initial impressions

Kit: You have never seen anything like this kit. It's like opening the door of a Ferrari. Everything is there, everything is state of the art and everything is absolutely top notch. No need for extra trips to the hobby shop with this model, its all there.

Pieces and Parts: Organized like you hope they would be, well protected bagged and labeled. I didn't have to have mine shipped as I just went by the BVM facility and picked it up, but believe me, its well packed and protected. I think it would survive the old samsonite gorilla test.

Construction Manual Thorough and well organized, easy to follow even for such a complex model and full of very good construction tips. Nothing out of sequence. Read it several times, the steps are many and need to be followed in the order in which they are presented. No short cuts on this one or you might be calling the factory for an extra set of parts and building a couple of subassemblies twice.

Here's what I have learned so far:

1. Building surface needs to be absolutely flat. Warps in the flying surfaces at the speed this jet flies are probably to be avoided. Something we all know, but how to achieve. Instructions tell you to use hollow core door and 2x4 armstrong ceiling tile for building surface and how to set it up. Found mine at Home Depot. Door was $25, tile was about $3.50. Went to Loews first, but they only sell the tiles in packages. Home Depot will sell you an individual one. Even though I was concerned about getting it straight and level as my garage floor is not (no dream of a modelers workshop for me) as my building surface sits on saw horses. Bob Fiorenze told me to use magazines under the saw horses to level the building table (can tear out pages one or two at a time to get table as straight as possible) and use a straight edge to check the entire length of the building surface diagonally, laterally and longitudionally. Used a 48" steel one that I happened to have. Bob is so careful, he even checked the underside of the door to make sure it was level as well !!! I oriented my piece of tile to one of the corners of the door and "C" clamped it into place just to keep it there and warp free. Taped plans to that.

2. Finishing the model (mine will be in Blue Angel solo pilot trim) begins and ends with its construction. I learned this from Mickey (and Bob) on another model after I asked them to help me eliminate some inconsistencies in its flying surfaces created by my "glue it together sand it out" approach to model construction. In order for it to be finished straight, you need to build it straight from the beginning no bumps, dips or twists as there is not enough balsa filler to smooth out a finished surface.

3. Construction starts with the wings instructions are clear, just follow them. I used a small right triangle and a steel ruler (both are called for in the instructions) to get every part aligned as called for. I can't stress this enough. Make sure every part is straight and aligned with the building plan; true in all planes before gluing. Use the types of glue recommended in the plans. "Fio" checked my work and found I was off a 32nd in a couple of spots. How did he do it? First he ran a right triangle around the perimeters of the wing structure and checked how its apex lined up with the plans as drawn. Next he put a work lamp on level with the wing surface so that it would backlight a straight edge and then moved the straight edge along the open surface of the wing and looked for places where the light shined thru. Simple, but very effective. I had to break apart a couple of glue joints in order to correct the errors I had made, but no big deal.

4. Sanding the ribs to match one another: The instructions are clear on how to do this. Most importantly use a sanding block that is as long as the wing if possible. Mine is 22 inches, long enough if you follow the instructions on how to sand the ribs out. How to tell that the ribs are in the same plane after sanding? Never knew the answer to that one. "Fio's" tip, take a magic marker and color the tops of the ribs. Sand in the plane of the airfoil until the ink is gone from all the ribs. When you get there, the ribs are true to each other. Works great: other tips from "Fio" on this one, sanding should conform with the chord of the wing, put no weight on the sanding block and check progress with straight edge frequently. Tip from Mickey "patience, patience, patience" when it comes to sanding I'm always in such a hurry to get my models finished, I sand too hard and too much. Taking a break from sanding on a frequent basis seems to keep me from sanding too hard. Using Fio's method of coloring the ribs solved the problem of sanding too much.

Here's what following these tips produced:

Pitts S1S

My Feedback: (9)

Keep this thread going! I'm getting ready to order mine as well.

Jeff

markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

Looking forward to it hope to have ready by this coming Florida Jet meet in Lakeland, FL hoping to post every day depending on progress

markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

Have now completed the tasks of installing servo mounts and sheeting the top right wing per instructions and am ready to turn over to complete. Here's how I did it. I used the JR servo's called for in the instructions and I suggest you do as well. The kit is configured for these servos and it saves a lot of time and a few headaches if you just use them. The flap servo mount needs to be notched on the aft end to accomodate the electrical leads from the servo. The plans provide a photo to guide you and the instructions are very clear. Just don't make the mistake I almost did and put the notch in what seemed to me to be the logical location. Dawned on me after I did that I could never get the servo lead back thru the cut out if I needed to replace the servo!!!!. Good thing BVM is nearby so I can purchase a few replacement servo mounting blocks nothing like trial and error learning!!! I used a dremel router bit to cut the notch. It makes a clean notch just the size needed to clear the exit point for the servo leads. You also need to be careful to cut the notch slightly off centerline so that it mates up to the servo properly as shown in the photos below. After mating the flap servo mounts to the flap servo and checking for fit I removed everything and prepped the top sheeting for gluing to the wing structure. You can reinstall the flap servo after you turn the wing over to skin the bottom. Removing it beforehand eliminates the possibility that you might glue the sheeting to the servo, a real possibility in my case.

My friend Bob Fiorenze helped me prep the sheeting for gluing and fix it to the wing structure. Here's how we did it. First Bob checked the structure with a straight edge to ensure there were no irregularities in the overall structure. Because I used his technique of coloring the ribs with a marker and closely followed the instructions for sanding the ribs to uniformity, he said it was "Perfect" coming from Bob, that's quite a compliment!!! I was relieved, because I was already prepared to go back to BVM and purchase a new wing structure, not having any confidence in my ability to build to the level of perfection that this kit permits because of its design and the quality of its parts. Its definitely not the "die crunch" kit of old. However, there was no need for the trip. Next, Bob glued some balsa tabs to the underside of the sheeting to provide a guide for locating the sheeting on the structure. He glued two guides on the "root" edge and a couple along the trailing edge of the top sheeting. These guides allow you to check the position of the sheeting before gluing it down and also let you "lock" the sheet in position with no chance of it shifting as you shape it to the wing. You can see these tabs in the photos. To help fit the wing to the structure, the instructions call for you to spray an amonio based cleaner along the area where the sheeting will need to bend the most to conform to the wing structure. No need to soak the sheeting, just mist it and it will "warp" perfectly as the photos show. Sheet Gap was then applied to the entire structure and the top sheeting laid into place guided by the tabs. The trailing edge was placed down first and, using a long sanding block, we slowly worked the sheeting down from trailing to leading edge. Once the leading edge was down, we held it in place with the sanding block and misted the leading edge with "kicker". Bob then sprayed "kicker" thru the gap between the wing structure and the building board from the trailing edge side. The structure was then left to thoroughly dry. I decided not to detach it from the building board until I was ready to begin working on the bottom. I won't get to that for a few days because of other committments. Hope the attached photos are helpful.

Jetfan20

My Feedback: (21)

I have seen Bob Violett fly this Jet several times and the speed is insane, Have Fun!!!

BobH

My Feedback: (2)

I spent Monday afternoon with Bob and his electra and the electric F86. Both are great flying planes. I'm wanting his electric P-80 when it's completed.. Yes he's a really good guy and makes superior products.
Thank you for sharing.

markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

It is fast. Saw Bob Fiorenze and Bob Violett fly demo's at the monster plane event in Lake Wales and they are really something to see. I like the F86 as well, but decided to start with the Electra Jet because of how well it flys. I Finally got back to my jet after taking care of a few chores around the house. Broke the wing free of the building surface, broke off the tabs that keep the wing in proper alignment, turned it over and reattached it to the building board just like the plans call for. I recommend that you do this in one sitting, if you take the wing off the building board, there is always a chance it will warp unless you get it reattached to the building cradles immediately. After it was all pinned down again, I sighted down the leading and trailing edges to make sure the wing was straight. The supports which hold it in place while you finish building the wing are quite precise in their fit (as you would want them to be) but if you sight down the leading and trailing edges, you will see if there is any need to make a slight fore or aft adjustment in the position of the support to keep the wing straight. This part is real important because you will apply the skin to the bottom side of the wing while it is in these building cradles. If the wing is not straight when you do well, we've all built a couple of these!!! The next step is to add the balsa stringer which is subsequently capped with a thin strip of carbon fiber. This stringer needs to be flush with the slots in the ribs thru which it passes in order for the wing sheeting to be smooth. I was struggling with trial fitting this piece to make sure it did not protrude above the ribs. It was kind of hard to hold the stringer in place without altering its shape from the pressure to determine just where the rib slots needed to be trimmed to make certain it did not protude above their surface. Fortunately Fio showed up to see how I was doing. He simply broke off a small piece about 3 inches long and glued a strip of the carbon fiber to it. With this guage, you could check each rib slot without having to fit the whole stringer at one time and then it was easy to see which rib slots needed to be deepened to accept the stringer without it sitting above the ribs. Once that is done and the carbon fiber strip attached, you simply sand the ribs using the technique I described earlier and then you have a wing that is straight, true and ready for finishing. Next step is to install the aileron servo. The instructions are clear. It is a little challenging to cut the slot for the servo lead in the mounting block (it took me two blocks to get it right). I used the technique I described earlier to create the slot. The trick is to construct the servo mounts and afix the servo before you glue the mounts in place. There is a little fitting to be done and its a good idea to use the bottom wing sheeting as a guide to make sure the screw heads that hold the servo to the mount will not protrude above the adjacent ribs and interfere with the fitting of the aileron servo cover. Simply remove the piece from the bottom sheeting that is the aileron cover and place it in position. That way you can look at the servo and determine if the mounts will clear and the servo can be dismounted if needed. I would suggest you study the plans and read the instructions a couple of times just to make sure you understand how this is all going together . It took me several attempts and if you don't get it right, Lots of other things are not going to fit!!! Next up is the gear mounting plate. Once I had it cleaned up as the plans called for, I put in in position and got ready to drill the pilot screws for holding it into place. Found this neat lipo powered dremel tool at Sears that was perfect for the task, so naturally I bought it. Can't have too many tools!!! Photos show my progress to date. Hope to have gear in this weekend.

markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

Forgot one little detail about mounting the flap servo. The rubber mounting tabs on the JR servo that is to be used as the flap servo create a space between the hardwood mount and the servo that makes the assembly slightly wider than the "keys" in the rib which hold the servo mounts themselves. Don't know if this is the case with all of their servos, but I trimmed the tabs on the rubber mounts to eliminate this gap and the servo fit perfectly. Conversely, you could notch the servo mount to provide for clearance for the tab if you find you have this "fit" problem. By the way, I completed fitting the servo into the servo mounts, drilling and installing the servo before gluing the mounts into the wing. That way I knew that everything fit and avoided the problem of having to alter the servo mounts after they had been glued into the wing. See photos below for more detail. On to the landing gear assembly. Starting to look like an Electra wing!!!!

markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

Since last post, have added landing gear mount, installed hinges for flap and aileron, final glued all the joints and prepared the lower wing sheeting for installation. All straightforward and all well explained in the plans. Am beginning to have a little more confidence in my ability to do a good job of building this aircraft, not bad for a casual builder like me. I did learn a few tricks that you might find helpful. The first one is to use a latex glove when gluing. It it particularly helpful when using the tip of your finger to remove excess glue or smoothing out a glue fillet. You would think after building models for a few years, this would have occurred to me, but it hasn't!!!. It had occurred to Fio, however, and he passed it on to me. Have had more than my share of glued fingers and finding hardened glue in places I did not intend it to be!!! The glove solves all these problems. When you get ready to prep the lower wing sheeting for gluing to the wing structure, the plans call for you to remove the section which eventually will be reinstalled to cover the landing gear mechanics and reinforce this area with 1/8th balsa strips which are provided in the kit (like everything else it seems you will need). For what it's worth, I placed the wing sheet upside down on my building table over some plastic wrap and used T pins to hold it into place when gluing in these strips. By turning it upside down (or inside out) the strips, when glued in, are more flush with the surface of the sheeting that will be exposed which makes it easier to sand this area flush. I did not push the T pins thru the wood, just around the perimeter to keep things straight when gluing in the strips. The plans call for you to lightly sand the edges of this area before gluins. Its a good idea to use a sanding block that is larger than the surface to be sanded just to keep from sanding in a "bow". Learned this from my friend Mickey Nowell, one of his building rules. You want to be careful here, because the more you sand, the larger the opening and therefore the bigger the gaps between the landing gear cover and the wing. The bigger the gap, the poorer the eventual fit and the slower this baby will fly. Here are the photos, hope they help.

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

You will definetly enjoy the Electra. Mine is an Electra ARF with a 5212 using the new 6400 12S packs. I have been flying turbines for years and have been having a blast with mine. BV always has great manuals and if you follow them you will have a great flying airplane. You have some good help to lean on there, use it! What fan/battery combo are you planning to use?

David Reid
BVM Rep

markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

David, thanks for the encouragement. I have been laid up a bit with some minor surgery, but hope to bet back to the electra this weekend. Am planning on using the same set up as you figure it has all the "go" I can handle. Did manage to get the gear installed and will post my experience in doing so in the next day or two. Going slow for the moment, but wanted to have my work checked frequently by Fio and Mickey just to make sure I didn't miss anything. Should go fast from here and then soon will really go fast

Mark

DavidR

My Feedback: (1)

I plan on being at Pensacola jets this weekend burning up some major electrons, along with a little go go jet juice (jet fuel). The Electra will be rockin just got the new 5212 installed.

markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

I'll be in the shop burning balsa wood and fiberglass. Am fully recovered from surgery that kept me away from the building board, and back at it full force today. Hope all goes well in Pensacola. Hope to see you at Florida Jets in Lakeland this coming spring. Since last post have completed construction of gear bay cover, landing gear and gear door, and installed everything. This is one step in the building process where you want to go slow just to make sure you get it right. The instructions, as always are clear, but detailed. Make sure you undestand them before cutting, remember that old rule about measuring and cutting!!!. You want to make sure that the gear leg with the axle and wheel attached clear the wheel opening when extending and retracting. Because the gear assembly is fixed to the wing structure independent of the bottom sheeting, its possible, depending on how much overlap you created when you installed the bottom sheeting that things won't quite line up. That being the case, you may need to trim both the gear bay cover and the plywood gear strut cover to get the clearance you need. There is a limit to how much you can trim the open structure of the gear bay cover without affecting its integrity, so its a good idea to test assemble all the pieces and parts, take a deep breath, stare at the whole thing for about 30 minutes and then decide what gets trimmed first. The idea is to trim as little as possible from all structures. I found that when I trial mounted the ply strut cover as per plans that the upper end could be shortened to help it clear the gear bay cover when retracting. I then chose to trim the rounded edge of the bottom end to provide the clearance it needed to pass thru the wheel opening rather than open up the wheel well to accomodate the gear strut. The strut is going to be covered by a poly ply gear door in the end, so reducing it in size as opposed to trimming the opening in the gear bay cover seemed like the best thing to do. Besides, Bob said to do it this way!!!. After trimming the gear bay cover so that the wheel would clear, I proceeded to clear the opening in the gear bay cover for the rest of the strut leg to clear as per plans. Once all that moved in and out through the opening as it should, I mounted and trimmed the poly ply cover as per instructions and the deed was done!!! Here's the proof. The trick for me was to think thru the trimming process before doing any alterations to the structures with the goal of removing as little material as possible to meet the clearance requirements outlined in the building instructions. One final note. The axle will ding the undersurface of the upper wing sheeting as you move it in and out during the fitting process which could make for an ugly hole in your new wing. I wadded up some blue adhesive tape to form a cushion and taped it in the wheel well to prevent this from happening. Once the gear door is attached to the strut it will keep the axle from contacting the upper wing surface.

markleeedwards

My Feedback: (1)

Sorry to have taken so long to get back to updating this thread sometimes real life gets in the way of the good stuff. Have completed one wing and am now on to the next. In the process learned a few things I would like to pass along. First photos are of completed landing gear assembly mentioned in my last entry. Finally figured out that I needed to upgrade my membership to be able to upload more photos. Have done that and here are the latest. A couple of tips along the way. When you get ready to clear openings for aileron and flap control horns, its a good idea to place the control horn on the plans and use a piece of tape to mark its orienation to the flap or aileron as the case may be. That way, you can trial fit them as you clear away balsa and when you glue them in, you will have a quide to make certain its mounted correctly. The aileron control horn has a jig to make certain you mount it in its correct orientation. I found the jig had to be relieved a bit to fit the aileron control horn properly. It worked perfectly. Another point. The control horns are of a generic shape and the plans indicate that some of the material needs to be removed for them to fit properly. As you can see in my photos, I altered their shape quite a bit and will use a good amount of BVM aeropoxy to hold them in place. Lastly, when you get ready to fit the aileron cover into place, I would suggest you glue the tab that mounts to the wing in place first and then trial fit the cover to determine just how much overlap you will need for the tab that glues to the cover. The clearances for the aileron servo are tight and you may need to alter the shape and position of the tab that mounts to the cover in order for it to fit into place without encountering the mounting brackets for the servo or the servo itself.

A note on sanding the leading edge and wingtip into shape. You want to get them to rough shape without having to sand into the wing sheeting or the aileron/flap assembly. The idea is to keep all these areas in their unsanded condition until you are ready to final sand the whole wing. That way all the parts and areas of the wing structure are sanded to the same shape and properly mated to one another before you begin glassing. Bob Fiorenze had me apply a 2 inch wide strip of masking tape to protect the wing sheeting at the tip and and leading edge from contact by my sanding block. You can see this in the photo. Having done so, I was able to sand the leading edge into its approximate shape without sanding into the sheeting. Another tip from one of the builders in BVM's shop. Use the root leading edge template to trace the desired shape of the leading edge onto the root edge of the leading edge before sanding. Its much easier to see that you are sanding to the proper shape with this is a reference rather than continually using the template to check your progress. I sanding the last 4th of the leading edge first, using the tip template as a guide and then sanded in the remainder of the leading edge to match. That way, I was able to sand it to final keeping the leading edge straight. Will start on the fuselage this weekend to keep this thread moving.