skipatroller

My son bought me a F-4E Phantom EDF RC Jet, ducted electric from Exceed RC. It can be seen at http://www.nitroplanes.com/06a03-shark-f-4e.html. Unknown to him I was about to buy a Wild Hawk for myself (http://www.nitroplanes.com/rtfwiha54el3.html). I have a flight simulator on the way and plan to practice on it for at least 3 weeks before flying (http://www.nitroplanes.com/e4chflsitrki.html). Over 20 years ago I flew, on a limited basis, a 3 channel gas plane. I'd like thoughts on whether or not I'm getting in over my head with the F4, even if I practice like a fiend on the simulator for several weeks. Thanks.

BeanerECMO

My Feedback: (1)

Ducted fans don't glide well; they need power at all times; and they are prone to tip stalls when the speed bleeds off too much. If you have an instructor close by with the use of a buddy box will help you get up and down much more 'safely'. Otherwise, if you take it up alone make sure you do a nice level t/o (no immediate turns), get to ' 3 mistake' altitude before doing anything radical. When you get to altitude, trim it as best you can, get used to flying in a racetrack so more is learned about the airplane's characteristics (3/4 throttle), and when you are getting comfortable after 4 or 5 flights, experiment to find the plane's stall characteristics (at '3 mistake' altitude). The '3 mistake' altitude should give you enough time to get over initial panic during an unusual attide and get the plane into a good flight regime.

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

You are definitely in over your head with the F-4. If you haven't flown in 20 years you need to dust off your trainer, or get a new one, and learn to fly all over again. While a simulator helps somewhat it is no substitute for the real thing.

Find a good instructor and get signed off at your local club. Once you're very comfortable with the trainer then move up to something a little faster and more aerobatic. After you've mastered that get a pusher or ducted fan trainer. Finally after getting use to how that behaves you will be ready to try the F-4.

If you want to try the F-4 any sooner have a competent jet pilot do the maiden and trim it out. Then have him take it off and let you fly it around a few times on a buddy box, then have him land it. Don't even attempt that until you are very comfortable with your trainer.

In addition to what BeanerECMO said ducted fans do not respond immediately to throttle commands plus the control surfaces are rather unresponsive until you get the speed up. With a prop plane the air blast over the surfaces makes the control surfaces responsive, with a DF you need to get the plane up to speed before there is sufficient air flow to make the surfaces responsive.

Good Luck,
Joe

jfast

I know all so well about being in over your head. My f-4 lasted 30 secs, before i nosed her in the ground. way more sensitive than I was used to. a big pile of dust , it was fast!! , I hope to get her back together someday. I fly a piper cub and figured it would fly the same. (wrong)

rob737

My Feedback: (3)

i crashed mine today too! maiden flight. i think i balanced it wrong, it tucked in a turn and i did not have enough elevator to recover from the dive. lucky, i just broke a wing tip off. it's all fixed now, will try again in another day or so. it is a slick bird! rob

Chris Balling

It doesn't matter what brand or manufacturer you get it from..........a Phantom is not a trainer aircraft..........unless you're training for one landing. Hang up your F-4, get some gentile stick time (there are a lot of good trainer type airplanes out there), and then plan on using your Phantom for aircraft number two or three.

jfast

any thoughts on putting a better radio in? I have spektrum I could put in it. I thought maybe adding a bunch of expo might slow her down a bit.

BeanerECMO

My Feedback: (1)

Spektrum is good. Use 100% expo and about 15-20% throws on the control surfaces - not much throw is required for the speeds of a ducted fan.

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

WHAT??? You can't be serious. You shouldn't be giving out advice like that, some newby might take you seriously. If you are serious I suggest that you give it a try on your plane and report back the results.

BeanerECMO

My Feedback: (1)

It's what I fly on an SU-27, F-22 and A-6. Please advise.

joeflyer

My Feedback: (48)

That certainly is a very unusual way to set up a plane, and nothing I'd recommend to a newby. 100% expo would make the control surfaces unresponsive about +/- 25% either side of center stick. The only control you have would be at the extremes of your stick movement. It seems it would be almost like non-proportional control, as you move the stick nothing happens, move it almost to full stick then all of a sudden the surface responds.

As far as 15 - 20% throws; that doesn't tell much because it's surface travel that's important and it depends on how your linkage is set up. For that to work you'd have to have your linkage set up with a very poor mechanical advantage. Ideally linkages should be set up to give max deflection at 100% servo travel. If you have a computer radio which can drive the servos at 150% then set max deflection at that or as much as you can get. That way you have more precise control at small stick movements and you are multiplying servo torque to the surface. I shoot for a 2:1 mechanical advantage, or as close to it as I can.

Also your comment about not much throw being necessary at high speed is true, however at some point (like take offs and landings) you will need to slow the plane down. Without adequate throw you won't have sufficient control when you really need it.

Some guys use dual rates to give more throw for slow flight, I prefer to use 25-40% (depending on the set up) to have smooth control at high speed and sufficient control slow. Not having to switch rates is one less thing to worry about while flying.

Joe

BeanerECMO

My Feedback: (1)

Understand your concerns and thanks for the info. I know we had extended throws in the A-6 and EA-6B for T/Os & LDGs, but the models just need so much more for landing speeds that full-scale. Newbies tend to over control in a panic and that's was the purpose for the expo and low rate settings. My linkages are to the tips.