Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
05-16-2004 | 04:18 AM
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From: Calgary,
AB, CANADA
Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Are you a product of the millenium generation? Do you want it now? Need instant gratification and suffer blackouts from steep learning curves?
There seem to be two general schools of thought on how to enter this hobby (somwhat polarized):
1) buy a full blown trainer with re-usable electronics and a good transmitter, +maybe some flight sim software and get help from your local club.
2) buy a cheap RTF and be prepared to buy a few replacement parts but start flying a few hours after purchase.
I chose method 2) with the FireBirdII from HobbyZone. I learned to fly on my own at a local park for under $200 CAD (which included a roll of packing tape and 5 minute epoxy for repairs, a spare battery and a few replacement parts). You can certainly buy a 3 or 4 channel rig that has portable electronics (you can carry them up to your next plane) for only slightly more but... most people will advise you to get help from an instructor at your local club.
I chose to 'waste' some money on a 2 channel plane that had only a few upgradable options and no portability in exchange for flying the same day I bought it. Given the counter intuitive nature of RC vehicles when they are coming towards you, or doing unexpected maneuvers, etc I felt it was worth it to risk trashing a $130 CAD plane during my learning curve. Which I did, smak into a tree at full speed and only snapped the wing.
It might not be a popular opinion on the boards but anyone can jump into this hobby for less than your first day skiing, or golfing (if you include the apres ski at the bar). Some people really push the 'join a flying club' angle but it's really not neccessary. It's just a control mechanism to weed out irresponsible flyers (which is a worthy goal to be sure).
There seem to be two general schools of thought on how to enter this hobby (somwhat polarized):
1) buy a full blown trainer with re-usable electronics and a good transmitter, +maybe some flight sim software and get help from your local club.
2) buy a cheap RTF and be prepared to buy a few replacement parts but start flying a few hours after purchase.
I chose method 2) with the FireBirdII from HobbyZone. I learned to fly on my own at a local park for under $200 CAD (which included a roll of packing tape and 5 minute epoxy for repairs, a spare battery and a few replacement parts). You can certainly buy a 3 or 4 channel rig that has portable electronics (you can carry them up to your next plane) for only slightly more but... most people will advise you to get help from an instructor at your local club.
I chose to 'waste' some money on a 2 channel plane that had only a few upgradable options and no portability in exchange for flying the same day I bought it. Given the counter intuitive nature of RC vehicles when they are coming towards you, or doing unexpected maneuvers, etc I felt it was worth it to risk trashing a $130 CAD plane during my learning curve. Which I did, smak into a tree at full speed and only snapped the wing.
It might not be a popular opinion on the boards but anyone can jump into this hobby for less than your first day skiing, or golfing (if you include the apres ski at the bar). Some people really push the 'join a flying club' angle but it's really not neccessary. It's just a control mechanism to weed out irresponsible flyers (which is a worthy goal to be sure).
05-16-2004 | 07:19 AM
#2
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RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Congratulations. I'm glad you struck a tree, rather than someone else.
Clubs are usually arranged around areas devoid of trees and other obstacles. Plus, the spectators are restricted to areas behind you, to make it easier to avoid them, and they're not supposed to walk out on the runway into the path of the plane, like they can in any public park, vacant lot or side street. Some of us find that to be a plus.
Clubs like mine offer training, at no cost. Some of us find that to be a good thing. As you point out, however, the expense for a suitable first plane is somewhat higher. Still, the club thing has its good points, even beyond the instruction period.
Good luck,
Dave Olson
Clubs are usually arranged around areas devoid of trees and other obstacles. Plus, the spectators are restricted to areas behind you, to make it easier to avoid them, and they're not supposed to walk out on the runway into the path of the plane, like they can in any public park, vacant lot or side street. Some of us find that to be a plus.
Clubs like mine offer training, at no cost. Some of us find that to be a good thing. As you point out, however, the expense for a suitable first plane is somewhat higher. Still, the club thing has its good points, even beyond the instruction period.
Good luck,
Dave Olson
ORIGINAL: medic_4077
Are you a product of the millenium generation? Do you want it now? Need instant gratification and suffer blackouts from steep learning curves?
There seem to be two general schools of thought on how to enter this hobby (somwhat polarized):
1) buy a full blown trainer with re-usable electronics and a good transmitter, +maybe some flight sim software and get help from your local club.
2) buy a cheap RTF and be prepared to buy a few replacement parts but start flying a few hours after purchase.
I chose method 2) with the FireBirdII from HobbyZone. I learned to fly on my own at a local park for under $200 CAD (which included a roll of packing tape and 5 minute epoxy for repairs, a spare battery and a few replacement parts). You can certainly buy a 3 or 4 channel rig that has portable electronics (you can carry them up to your next plane) for only slightly more but... most people will advise you to get help from an instructor at your local club.
I chose to 'waste' some money on a 2 channel plane that had only a few upgradable options and no portability in exchange for flying the same day I bought it. Given the counter intuitive nature of RC vehicles when they are coming towards you, or doing unexpected maneuvers, etc I felt it was worth it to risk trashing a $130 CAD plane during my learning curve. Which I did, smak into a tree at full speed and only snapped the wing.
It might not be a popular opinion on the boards but anyone can jump into this hobby for less than your first day skiing, or golfing (if you include the apres ski at the bar). Some people really push the 'join a flying club' angle but it's really not neccessary. It's just a control mechanism to weed out irresponsible flyers (which is a worthy goal to be sure).
Are you a product of the millenium generation? Do you want it now? Need instant gratification and suffer blackouts from steep learning curves?
There seem to be two general schools of thought on how to enter this hobby (somwhat polarized):
1) buy a full blown trainer with re-usable electronics and a good transmitter, +maybe some flight sim software and get help from your local club.
2) buy a cheap RTF and be prepared to buy a few replacement parts but start flying a few hours after purchase.
I chose method 2) with the FireBirdII from HobbyZone. I learned to fly on my own at a local park for under $200 CAD (which included a roll of packing tape and 5 minute epoxy for repairs, a spare battery and a few replacement parts). You can certainly buy a 3 or 4 channel rig that has portable electronics (you can carry them up to your next plane) for only slightly more but... most people will advise you to get help from an instructor at your local club.
I chose to 'waste' some money on a 2 channel plane that had only a few upgradable options and no portability in exchange for flying the same day I bought it. Given the counter intuitive nature of RC vehicles when they are coming towards you, or doing unexpected maneuvers, etc I felt it was worth it to risk trashing a $130 CAD plane during my learning curve. Which I did, smak into a tree at full speed and only snapped the wing.
It might not be a popular opinion on the boards but anyone can jump into this hobby for less than your first day skiing, or golfing (if you include the apres ski at the bar). Some people really push the 'join a flying club' angle but it's really not neccessary. It's just a control mechanism to weed out irresponsible flyers (which is a worthy goal to be sure).
05-16-2004 | 10:58 AM
#3
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RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
I know it's hard to believe, but there are some people who do use parks with safety in mind.
I would only fly an electric slow flyer park flyer in a park. And I fly those slow flyers slow.
There are parks that the grassy areas are surrounded by trees so that should a plane come down, it will end up in a tree. I don't try to set altitude records; I fly no higher than the tops of the surrounding trees.
I purchased a name brand Tx and a more expensive Rx that is of the same or (some say) better quality than the Rx that comes in a name brand package.
I will not fly when anyone is in the park and should some people come in, I'll fly 10 feet or less off the ground on the other side of the park and land it if they start coming my way.
I have made a pact with myself that my Slow Stick will be augered in before I make any attempts to save it from a potentially dangerous situation.
If there is a safety issue I've missed, please let me know.
I know that it is hard to know what others are doing out there. I thought launching rockets was a fairly safe activity until I went once with a friend and his friend. The other friend had not attached his chute to the tube and fins and, well, you can see the danger that this might create.
When I start making my way up the speed ladder, I will definitely find a field that matches the speed of the plane. And that, is not in a park.
I would only fly an electric slow flyer park flyer in a park. And I fly those slow flyers slow.
There are parks that the grassy areas are surrounded by trees so that should a plane come down, it will end up in a tree. I don't try to set altitude records; I fly no higher than the tops of the surrounding trees.
I purchased a name brand Tx and a more expensive Rx that is of the same or (some say) better quality than the Rx that comes in a name brand package.
I will not fly when anyone is in the park and should some people come in, I'll fly 10 feet or less off the ground on the other side of the park and land it if they start coming my way.
I have made a pact with myself that my Slow Stick will be augered in before I make any attempts to save it from a potentially dangerous situation.
If there is a safety issue I've missed, please let me know.
I know that it is hard to know what others are doing out there. I thought launching rockets was a fairly safe activity until I went once with a friend and his friend. The other friend had not attached his chute to the tube and fins and, well, you can see the danger that this might create.
When I start making my way up the speed ladder, I will definitely find a field that matches the speed of the plane. And that, is not in a park.
05-16-2004 | 04:13 PM
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From: Calgary,
AB, CANADA
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Thanks for the luck Dave, by your implication you may not agree but my point was that being a responsible flyer is not restricted to club members. Fortunately Calgary is well populated with large parks and green spaces and I am able to find a deserted area without too much driving around, Fish Creek Provincial Park just down the road has several suitable 600'x600' or larger fields to fly in and one of them is always empty of people. I agree that there is no need to fly near people or property, plenty of other places to fly and it sounds like Time Pilot would agree.
Safe Flying and Good Luck,
Ken Benoy
Safe Flying and Good Luck,
Ken Benoy
05-16-2004 | 07:53 PM
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From: Safety Haror,
FL
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Heya Medic,
I chose your method of learning too. I learned on a HobbyZone Firebird and Commander. While they are not pefect planes in any sense, they certainly took a lot of abuse and kept on flying. I am also a true "Park Flyer". I fly in a variety of schoolyards, parking lots, soccer fields, and baseball fields that are close to my house. I often just run out and go through a couple of batteries when I have the time, and can rarely dedicate longer periods of time to flying.
While I am sure that the clubs have a lot to offer, I am also sure that the new generation of elecric park flyers will fly largely on their own and not in a club setting. The whole attraction to the park flyers is that you can fly them almost anywhere once you gain a little control.
I also am very safety conscious and never fly when other people are using these facilities for other things. If others show up I usually just land the plane and leave. In most of the places I fly I can get some altitude and range over retention ponds and forested areas where I will not pose a threat to anyone else if I lose conrol of the bird. And I am also willing to crash the plane to avoid any chance of causing injury to anyone else.
It will be important for those of us who do not fly at designated club flying fields to act responsibly, or our flying rights will be swiftly curtailed. I hope we are all doing that.
I chose your method of learning too. I learned on a HobbyZone Firebird and Commander. While they are not pefect planes in any sense, they certainly took a lot of abuse and kept on flying. I am also a true "Park Flyer". I fly in a variety of schoolyards, parking lots, soccer fields, and baseball fields that are close to my house. I often just run out and go through a couple of batteries when I have the time, and can rarely dedicate longer periods of time to flying.
While I am sure that the clubs have a lot to offer, I am also sure that the new generation of elecric park flyers will fly largely on their own and not in a club setting. The whole attraction to the park flyers is that you can fly them almost anywhere once you gain a little control.
I also am very safety conscious and never fly when other people are using these facilities for other things. If others show up I usually just land the plane and leave. In most of the places I fly I can get some altitude and range over retention ponds and forested areas where I will not pose a threat to anyone else if I lose conrol of the bird. And I am also willing to crash the plane to avoid any chance of causing injury to anyone else.
It will be important for those of us who do not fly at designated club flying fields to act responsibly, or our flying rights will be swiftly curtailed. I hope we are all doing that.
05-17-2004 | 07:22 AM
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From: Spencerport, NY
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Before this turns into a knock-down, drag-out over club vs. park flyer, at which point I will have to shut it down, let me say this much: It's all about what type of person you are, what you want to get out of the hobby. There are many ways to get into the hobby, and even more ways to enjoy the hobby. They can all coexist peacefully. There is no need for club people to bash park fliers, and no need for park fliers to take thinly-veiled jabs at clubs.
05-17-2004 | 12:01 PM
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From: Mankato,
MN
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
For some clubs are a pain. But sometimes the pain is worth the rewards. It's nice having others to share your hobby with. THey can take photos and video or help you figure out why your plane won't fly properly. But most of all they can give a united voice in times when flying sites get restricted or shut down.
Park flyer airplanes are a big hit right now. While this is great for the hobby it also means more people will be out wanting to fly in parks and open areas. This can bring the local laws down to restrict flying in parks due to public safety. Having a club can help form a plan and lobby for an area in town that can be avalible for flying or a club could even secure a dedicated area only for flying.
The politics of some clubs can be a pain to deal with but if it keeps you in the air it can be worth it.
Park flyer airplanes are a big hit right now. While this is great for the hobby it also means more people will be out wanting to fly in parks and open areas. This can bring the local laws down to restrict flying in parks due to public safety. Having a club can help form a plan and lobby for an area in town that can be avalible for flying or a club could even secure a dedicated area only for flying.
The politics of some clubs can be a pain to deal with but if it keeps you in the air it can be worth it.
05-17-2004 | 02:33 PM
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From: Safety Haror,
FL
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Heya Matt,
I don't think anyone is trying to bash clubs here - I certainly am not. It is just that not everyone has good access to a club setting, and I would suspect that some club members will fly electric park flyers just so they have the alternative to fly closer to home now and then.
I think the issue here should be a discussion of "Responsible Behavior" for those of us who are not currently in a club setting so that we promote the sport, not damage it by raising public concern. That could be a very productive discussion!
I don't think anyone is trying to bash clubs here - I certainly am not. It is just that not everyone has good access to a club setting, and I would suspect that some club members will fly electric park flyers just so they have the alternative to fly closer to home now and then.
I think the issue here should be a discussion of "Responsible Behavior" for those of us who are not currently in a club setting so that we promote the sport, not damage it by raising public concern. That could be a very productive discussion!
05-26-2004 | 10:47 PM
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From: Sallisaw,
OK
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
I'm personaly not against the club concept. There are 3 major clubs local to me (about 20 minutes in three directions).
However, most of those clubs have dues and field impact fees. In those cases, you're looking at nearly $200 to start your club membership. In addition, the clubs require (and rightly so) AMA membership, which is close to 100bux a year. So, w/o even owning a plane, you're at $300.00 to get yourself ready to walk into a hobby shop and begin picking out your flyer.
As such, i'm one of the many people in my area that went out an purchsed a $90.00 airplane (FirebirdII) and started in an open field.
The sad part, is that although the electrics make it easy to get started, they also make it easy for people to make bad decisions on when and where to fly. Maybe local clubs should find a way to bring this new breed of beginner into their ranks w/o the big price tag? maybe AMA could offer cheaper park flyer dues for members (with membership still only applying at sanctioned fields).
I wouldn't mind becoming a member of a field if my fees were more reasonable. However, i'm goign to guarantee that my planes don't have the needs/impact/danger level of the bigger nitro counterparts.
just thoughts. anybody wanna get this ball rolling? ;-)
However, most of those clubs have dues and field impact fees. In those cases, you're looking at nearly $200 to start your club membership. In addition, the clubs require (and rightly so) AMA membership, which is close to 100bux a year. So, w/o even owning a plane, you're at $300.00 to get yourself ready to walk into a hobby shop and begin picking out your flyer.
As such, i'm one of the many people in my area that went out an purchsed a $90.00 airplane (FirebirdII) and started in an open field.
The sad part, is that although the electrics make it easy to get started, they also make it easy for people to make bad decisions on when and where to fly. Maybe local clubs should find a way to bring this new breed of beginner into their ranks w/o the big price tag? maybe AMA could offer cheaper park flyer dues for members (with membership still only applying at sanctioned fields).
I wouldn't mind becoming a member of a field if my fees were more reasonable. However, i'm goign to guarantee that my planes don't have the needs/impact/danger level of the bigger nitro counterparts.
just thoughts. anybody wanna get this ball rolling? ;-)
06-10-2004 | 03:02 PM
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From: , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
I take Skellum's point about the expense of clubs all right. I succumbed at long last to the temptation to get myself a flying toy and talked my wife into buying me a JP ElectraFun (elevator, rudder, motor on/off) for a birthday present. It cost a penny shy of UK£100 and it would cost me a large fraction of that just to join my local club. Fortunately I have a footie field just behind my house, it is not often used, it even has a hayfield next to it (at least until they mow the hay and it reverts to being a cow field) and so I have room to try out this lightweight ('prox 1lb) flyer without endangering anyone in particular. Also I've ate, breathed and slept the theory of flight for nearly 40 years and have thousands of MCFS flying hours logged. But for anything faster and heavier, I agree, it'd be foolish not to join a club, and chances are I'll do exactly that within the year.
06-10-2004 | 03:30 PM
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From: Sallisaw,
OK
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
So I showed up at the "field" the other day to test fly my latest park wonder. The wind kicked up pretty good, so it wasn't park flyer weather when i arrived. However, i did see a couple of guys out there with helicopters. Having recently started learning with an electric micro heli (indoors of course)
i figured i'd hang around for a few minutes, and watch the big boys fly.
i was amazed at how well they handled the wind. I was also a bit amazed that they were flying at that particular field. on one hand, i was thinking selfish. people are going to say something about this, and ruin it for everybody that flys out here. on the other hand, i think there might actualy be a bit of a safety issue with flying .90 and .40 helis outside of a sanctiond club.
i left a few minutes after a heli came straight into the ground from about 100ft up (which seemed alot higher than it sounds) and plowed into a not-so-nearby baseball diamond (between 2nd and center). the parts were strewn all around and one blad was burried about 2ft in the ground. it was
pretty messed up.
also, while driving down the highway (a fair distance from the flying field) later that day, a larger gas airplane was flying about 30ft above the double yellow line. i'm starting to think that my safe little field for smaller airplanes is about to get turned out. :-(
i figured i'd hang around for a few minutes, and watch the big boys fly.
i was amazed at how well they handled the wind. I was also a bit amazed that they were flying at that particular field. on one hand, i was thinking selfish. people are going to say something about this, and ruin it for everybody that flys out here. on the other hand, i think there might actualy be a bit of a safety issue with flying .90 and .40 helis outside of a sanctiond club.
i left a few minutes after a heli came straight into the ground from about 100ft up (which seemed alot higher than it sounds) and plowed into a not-so-nearby baseball diamond (between 2nd and center). the parts were strewn all around and one blad was burried about 2ft in the ground. it was
pretty messed up.
also, while driving down the highway (a fair distance from the flying field) later that day, a larger gas airplane was flying about 30ft above the double yellow line. i'm starting to think that my safe little field for smaller airplanes is about to get turned out. :-(
06-10-2004 | 04:19 PM
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From: , UNITED KINGDOM
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
As for me, since the post above I just nipped out to enjoy the very last of the daylight... and managed to "land" the ElectraFun straight into the only obstacle within fifty yards of the intended touchdown point, a metal-framed five-a-side goal. Which I hit *end* on, an A-shaped target round about a yard square.
I'm pleased to report that the goal sustained no damage whatever, and that replacement wings for the EF retail at UK£7.99. Hn... I didn't have quite that much "dirty" in mind.
I'm pleased to report that the goal sustained no damage whatever, and that replacement wings for the EF retail at UK£7.99. Hn... I didn't have quite that much "dirty" in mind.
06-10-2004 | 07:23 PM
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From: Eatonton, GA
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
I'm a club member and I learned to fly the "old fashioned way". That is, with .40 sized glow trainer and a fellow club member/instructor standing beside me with the transmitter while I manned the buddy box. It is quite a comfort with a glow power plane to know that you can just quietly say your instructors name when you get in trouble and he can take control and recover the aircraft.
I learned to fly this way because it is what I wanted, I had no interest in electrics at the time. As time has gone on I have become enamored with park flyers too. I usually fly them at my club field as some of the other guys who fly the big glow fuel and gas planes do. I think it's just a nice change of pace. I guess I'm lucky in that my club dues are what to me is a very reasonable 40 dollars a year.
As far as AMA membership, I think that even a strictly park flyer pilot should seriously consider it just for the insurance alone. Even as careful as you guys are, you have to have a "what if" mentality. Even as light and slow as a park flyer may be , it can still cause significant damage if it were to hit a car or a person. You also get a pretty fair magazine for those AMA dues.
The only other thing I would worry about with park flyers is a person who somehow thinks that because they have mastered a 2 or 3 channel electric plane that they can just move right into a .40 glow powered bird with no other help. As far fetched as that sounds I have seen that kind of thinking on more than one occasion.
The hobby is in a great stage right now with park flyers and ARF's, new advances in battery technology and reliable affordable feature rich radio gear. It has something for everyone.
Let's all enjoy,
Michael
I learned to fly this way because it is what I wanted, I had no interest in electrics at the time. As time has gone on I have become enamored with park flyers too. I usually fly them at my club field as some of the other guys who fly the big glow fuel and gas planes do. I think it's just a nice change of pace. I guess I'm lucky in that my club dues are what to me is a very reasonable 40 dollars a year.
As far as AMA membership, I think that even a strictly park flyer pilot should seriously consider it just for the insurance alone. Even as careful as you guys are, you have to have a "what if" mentality. Even as light and slow as a park flyer may be , it can still cause significant damage if it were to hit a car or a person. You also get a pretty fair magazine for those AMA dues.
The only other thing I would worry about with park flyers is a person who somehow thinks that because they have mastered a 2 or 3 channel electric plane that they can just move right into a .40 glow powered bird with no other help. As far fetched as that sounds I have seen that kind of thinking on more than one occasion.
The hobby is in a great stage right now with park flyers and ARF's, new advances in battery technology and reliable affordable feature rich radio gear. It has something for everyone.
Let's all enjoy,
Michael
06-10-2004 | 07:32 PM
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From: Sallisaw,
OK
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Just for clarification, I was under the impression that AMA insurance is only effective if you are flying at an AMA sanctioned club field.
is this incorrect? if so, wouldn't that mean that park flyers are still out in the cold unless they are also flying under club membership at a local field?
it would be nice if ama had a park flyer exception that let you fly away from a sanctioned field. let me know if there is. i'll sign up today!
thanks!
is this incorrect? if so, wouldn't that mean that park flyers are still out in the cold unless they are also flying under club membership at a local field?
it would be nice if ama had a park flyer exception that let you fly away from a sanctioned field. let me know if there is. i'll sign up today!
thanks!
06-10-2004 | 07:43 PM
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From: Douglasville,
GA
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Theoretically, there's no requirement to fly at an AMA chartered club, so long
as you're abiding by the AMA guidelines on everything, wherever you're flying.
Now... being able to prove that you were abiding by all those AMA guidelines
if you do have an accident, that's another story completely. Who knows?
as you're abiding by the AMA guidelines on everything, wherever you're flying.
Now... being able to prove that you were abiding by all those AMA guidelines
if you do have an accident, that's another story completely. Who knows?
06-10-2004 | 09:31 PM
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From: Sallisaw,
OK
RE: Quick and Dirty, Self Taught Flight
Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not sure how i got that impression. I've been re-reading the AMA website, particularly the membership/insurance related documents, and have not seen the limitation i mentioned. Well, as i mentioned, i'm in. Time to go sign up.
Of course i only assume that the other park flyers out there are already following the safety guiedlines on the AMA website. If so, this is handy insurance, and a step closer to getting into a legit field. If not, download the safety guidelines and check them out. Safety is always important, but even more so if you are a rogue beginner.
:-)
Of course i only assume that the other park flyers out there are already following the safety guiedlines on the AMA website. If so, this is handy insurance, and a step closer to getting into a legit field. If not, download the safety guidelines and check them out. Safety is always important, but even more so if you are a rogue beginner.
:-)
