I've spent the last few days reading through the various electric flight forums. I started reading model airplane magazines when I was 8 or so and have continued to do so in the 40 intervening years.

In the mid/late 80's I decided electric planes were the hot ticket. I bought radio, the Goldberg Sophisticated Lady (glider) and the Great Plane Electicub and built them. I kept reading how you couldn't learn to fly without help, instruction, a mentor, good luck (etc, etc, etc). It just couldn't be done.

This refrain echos through the threads I've read over the past few days.

I have noticed, however, a few hardy souls who HAVE purchase/built their plane and taught themselves. This is encouraging and I would very much like to see more of this attitude.

When I started, I was doing a job far from home and didn't know anyone in the local, further, I'm (in person) relatively reclusive and reasonably private (contrary to my internet persona.) As a result, I found a flying area, read (devoured) everything I could read...

And went out and flew my planes.

Both of these planes, I would point out, are still flying today, along with several others). After a hiatus of nearly 15 years, my son (now seven) and I are breaking out the old planes and planning on some new ones. What surprised me was that learning was actually fairly easy given that I'd been reading the "can't do it on your own" propaganda for years. But, there were some tricks...

First thing was to do a number of "toss and glide" flights. Systems up and running, but with no intent (to fly) but to see what the behavior of the plane would be from launch to landing. Sometimes, with the Cub, I'd blip the throttle so it gained some speed and slight altitude. This allows you to easily (and safely) check the balance, the controls and the FEEL of the plane.

I also see that many recommend ROG for beginners. I'm of opposite mind on this one. Hand launching is much "better" while learning, ROG comes later (it's certainly more fun). Also understand the principals of flight - the elevator is NOT the "up" button.

I have yet to destroy a plane. I've certainly pranged a few, but nothing ever really bad. I've made many more errors in judgment (too much wind, too little space, that BIG tree, etc) than I have actual physical flying/thumb mistakes. One of the keys for me was to gain LOTS of altitude before trying anything new. It's relatively easy to learn when you have a LARGE buffer below you for reaction time and recovery.

At this point, we (kids and I) are "re-entering" the sport (like competitive shooting, this is a lifelong sport, and it comes and goes , but, in the long term, I ALWAYS come back to those two.

hi, thanks for the post...

i am about to be a beginner (see, im not even a beginner yet!) and want to take this very slow and learn as much as i can, i am going to be teaching myself basically. i noticed you mentioned the 'principles of flight' and the importance of it being understood, i am wondering where i can go to learn? any recommended reading? where do i begin, basically (to realize the elevator is not the up button, what an elevator is, etc)

thanks in advance!

i'll sugest if your in to electrics a book called backyard flying it will help u understand flying dynamics. i also sugjest a slow stick for your first plane very good flier it is what i taught my self to fly with. and now i have moved on to the e-starter which is just as good.

I particulary think taking off from the ground is easier for begginers..when doing hand launches..a person has to have 1 hand on the plane..and another on the tx..they also have to throw the plane with the right amount of force and angle..and then get both hands back on the tx in time to add up/down/left/right and or throttle controls..furthermore..most crashes/damages for newbies and even non-newbies happen right from the haund launch process...ive been flying for about a year now..and my worst crashes still happen on my periodic inefficient hand launches..doing a rolling takeoff allows the controller to have both hands on the tx .and also allows them to see if there plane is trimmed decently while their plane is rolling on the ground just seconds before takeoff..just my 2 cents worth..lol..

I'd start with a basic "how airplanes fly" from the library. Understanding the principals of how the airfoil and controls works goes a LONG way in helping. I've also had the advantage of knowing many "real" pilots who were willing to talk techie and learned a lot from them. Also, ASK QUESTIONS. Forums such as this are excellent for such feedback once you learn to sift the data (G).

Once you've got the basics, and when you start to fly, you have to remain CALM. I've had many times when I've thought "Oh crap, THIS one is going in" but by staying calm and staying with the model, managed to pull it out and get "home" safely. I've yet to plow one into the ground.

As mentioned earlier, get some altitude before trying to do anything. That big buffer of air BELOW you makes a difference. Having that buffer ABOVE you doesn't help much (G)

Another wonderful example of differences in reaction from on person to the next.

For me, ROG was harder when I was learning. At the bottom line, the reality is "What works for YOU!" If one method gets teh job done over another, by all means, find and use the one that works for you.

I certainly admit that ROG is more fun, and now do it whenever possible.

the best way to teach yourself how to fly is to do a lot of research before buy your first plane. i've spent too much on the junk airplane with stunning look but impossible to fly. especially the airplane without moving surface (just 2 motors on each side). NEVER EVER BUY SUCH A PLANE LIKE THAT!!!

after spent too much on the brick that couldn't fly, thanks to matt, greg, and everyone else who recommend me to aerobird challenger.....
i've had 4 succesful flight today, without any crash, and smooth landing all the time!!!
i'm so glad that i bought ABC, and don't regret at all

all of my classy looking airplane will be just for display, because i dont want to see them stuck in the three, or bring it home in a 100 pieces...

I wouldn't say that it is impossible to learn to fly RC without help, but most will agree that it does take some luck and skill to be able to learn on your own. Those that do it on their own are by far in the minority.

You have to be lucky enough to have a plane that is trimmed, balanced right and have the surface throws right where they should be, the right amount of power etc.

Then you have to naturally have the skill overcome the usual beginners over-correcting and excessive use of the controls.

I have assisted a lot of people get into the hobby over the years, and these are the basic things that a person needs help with.

We get a lot of the youngsters at our field with the inexpensive RTF foam planes and they expect to fly like a world champion. But after a couple of hand launches they either have a broken plane, or are disheartened and leave, usually both. I make it a point to to introduce myself and offer assistance. It's amazing how many look at me like I'm crazy and give me a "No Thanks" then proceed to destroy their investment.

There is an advantage now that was not avilable years ago, and that is the Flight Simulator. Anyone with a computer can load it on and get the basics of flying before ever going to the flying field.

But I would hesitate to tell anyone that they can learn to fly without some dedication to first learning the basics of RC, and get some help from an experienced RC pilot.

Today's technology is really helping people to train themselves to fly. The all-in-one packages are reasonably priced and pre-built. Some packages include radio modes that help to undo the active stick offsets of an eager newbie.

As one of the few self-trained pilots on a weak electric powered covered balsa design, I learned how to repair before I learned to fly. Stubbornness was my best skill at the time, and, after we learned which way the rudder was suppose to turn, I achieved my first flight.

Aside from an overactive stick, one of the first trouble areas for a new pilot is the left/right direction change when the plane is coming towards you. This can be removed by a simple technique of standing in the middle of a field and always try to fly over your right sholder in a circular pattern around the field. In this manner, left is always left and right is always right.

One common thread among most successful self-taught fliers is the fact that they did their homework beforehand. Too many people don't prepare themselves mentally, either because they don't realize they need to, or simply don't want to put forth the effort. They buy the first thing they see, or the cheapest thing they can find, which turns out to be a total piece of junk, or far more advanced than they could possibly hope to handle. This is not a hobby for the impatient, even with the advancements in design and technology.

Regardless of whether you do your homework or no, your best tool is an experienced pilot whose brain you can pick, and whose skill can help you learn faster with nowhere near the heartache.

Standing in the middle of the field is not an alternative at most fields where I fly, or most clubs fly.

With new pilots I just tell them to "get in the pilots Seat" and face the direction the plane is flying at all times, flying over their shoulder so to speak.

It works pretty good, and after a few flights the direction thing just seems to dissolve.

Greg,
Let me start by telling how much I've been enjoying your reviews and how much my son (7) has been enjoying your VIDEOS (G).

I agree completely that having doggest determination is a key factor, along with the actual ability to build and repair. I recall blowing a wing panel on one glider, running how, rebuilding the panel and was back to flying within 45 minutes.

I also found, that if the conditions allowed, I tend to fly in a "T". the pilot being the base (long leg) of the "T" and the flight path the top of the letter. This fairly simple race track approach prevented L/R disorientation until I'd calibrated the fine movement control on my thumbs and had learned enough not to think the airplane was a plow!

One thing I forgot to mention in all my blabbering.

ALWAYS try to keep the airplane upwind. (Wind blowing in your face). If it gets downwind too far, the "Goddess of little Airplanes" can take control and you can lose orientation and in most cases lose it all.

Just as in Full Scale aircraft, the weather is part of the equation. Getting caught in the air when a rainstorm hits, with an electric plane can be a serious problem. Lost one that way. Water and electricity do not mix well at all. We wont discuss thunderstorms and the 4 ft antenna in your hands.

>Something I forgot to mention in all my blabbering.

>ALWAYS try to keep the airplane upwind. (Wind blowing in your face). If it gets downwind too far, the "Goddess of little >Airplanes" can take control and you can lose orientation and in most cases lose it all.


Oh boy, have you hit THAT one on the head. The worst crash I ever had wasn't some thumb-dumb on my part, but misjudging the wind and letting the plane get "down there."

No way of getting it back to where I was. I was busting thumbs to get it down when a LARGE tree ate the thing!

Came close to losing my Mini-Funtana on its maiden flight. Wind where I was standing was rather light and from the right (Southerly). Out 100 Yd's where the plane was it was stronger and from the left, I would estimate in the range of 15-20 MPH. (Northerly). We Fly in a valley area.

On the first downwind pass, 2 mistakes high, the plane got just past me to the right and suddenly took off south. Its such a light and quick plane that before I knew it, I was losing orientation, it was getting awfully small. It's not that big anyway

Fortunately it is aerobatic, so I powered it up and pulled up elevator. It was going vertical and still blowing away, pulled an Immelman, throttled back to half and cranked in Down Elevator to penetrate, and luck was with me - I was able to penetrate back to the field and land OK.

I wonder if a person teaching themselves would know what to do in this situation???

>I wonder if a person teaching themselves would know what to do in this situation???

No, I certainly didn't know when I was learning. But, it seems that lessons like that stick a LONG time (G).

You cant do such comparison. Noob shouldn't fly 3d planes. So noob doesnt have to think about what to do with 3d aerobatic plane. Its like to offer to the person who doesnt know how to drive to race in formula 1 and make a desision. The only thing that beginner should know from very beginning - pick the right plane. After that - follow manual. That is all.

I am a n00b. I got only 3 flights. About 15-20 min total. I never flew anything but Xbox air combat games. I didnt have any difficulties with my first flight. I even did something close to be called "loop". And it was so easy to fly that I was shocked at first. I didnt expect it do be that easy.

My maiden video (sorry for pop-up - its the only way I can host this file)
http://rapidshare.de/files-en/379396...thawk.mpg.html

>You cant do such comparison. Noob shouldn't fly 3d planes. So noob doesnt have to think about what to do with 3d >aerobatic plane. Its like to offer to the person who doesnt know how to drive to race in formula 1 and make a desision.

I agree, such questions and comparisons are simply not valid. I didn't start competitive shooting with the $3000 Olympic target rifle I now use. Nor did I start flying with a hot screamer.

>I am a n00b. I got only 3 flights. About 15-20 min total. I never flew anything but Xbox air combat games. I didnt have >any difficulties with my first flight. I even did something close to be called "loop". And it was so easy to fly that I was >shocked at first. I didnt expect it do be that easy.

I started out with an electric kit plane that was too heavy and underpowered. After all the years of propaganda about how one couldn't learn on their own, I WAS shocked at how (apparently) easy it was. I still feel that way. Hopefully my son will too in the near future (G)

I think you took my post in the wrong way.

I am not trying to advocate a beginner trying to fly a 3D plane. The point I was trying to make is that after 40 years of experience, you still have the basics to fall back on in an emergency situation. And learning these things from an experienced RC Pilot can save you a lot of heartache and money.

I think that someone who has no other choice can teach themselves to fly RC. But I feel that with the help of a Club, or experienced pilot, you learn more of the basics than the manual, and experience cover. And some of the manuals I've seen leave a lot to be desired.

The new Slo-Flyers are definately easy for a beginner, and they do allow the beginner to get the feel of flying. Some even don't need a pilot on the transmitter to fly. And this is a good thing. But if you are ever going to get serious about this hobby, you can only learn from those that have gone before.

Those that do not learn from History, are doomed to repeat it. And I've seen my share of those that have gotten a $69.00 plane, flew it once - crashed it and gave up. With help they might have joined the ranks and found the joy I've gotten out of this hobby over the last 40 years.

But that is only my opinion.

I think you took my post in the wrong way.

I am not trying to advocate a beginner trying to fly a 3D plane. The point I was trying to make is that after 40 years of experience, you still have the basics to fall back on in an emergency situation. And learning these things from an experienced RC Pilot can save you a lot of heartache and money.

I think that someone who has no other choice can teach themselves to fly RC. But I feel that with the help of a Club, or experienced pilot, you learn more of the basics than the manual, and experience cover. And some of the manuals I've seen leave a lot to be desired.
-------------------------------------------

I understood where you were with it. I also agree that having the "support" of an experienced flyer or club IS helpful and beneficial. My point is somewhat different. In simple fact, one, sufficiently motivated (or sufficiently credit carded) CAN self learn.

The other reality is that some of us don't have such resources available and/or are NOT inclined to clubs and other such "social interaction." Much of my career was spent as a teacher/instructor (not the same), troubleshooter. As a result, I'm not greatly enamored of dealing with people "recreationally."

We each have to follow our own path.

I for one have found the RC community to be the most freindly, helpful and in general the best people you could ever associate with. As in any group there are exceptions, but we make our own choices in that area.

I have made many valued friendships over the years through the hobby. This camaradarie to me is as important as the flying itself.

I too have spent my working career as an Instructor/Teacher/Troubleshooter, and try to bring these experiences to the hobby, my club, and just anybody that needs or requests assistance. But if you are an individual the keeps to himself, that's your choice.

I missed the opportunity to interface with others of similar interest when I was put in that position. I spent a year on Adak Alaska, and was the only RC'er for nearly 18 months. Couldnt wait to get back and interface with a group again.

(im the original poster who asked where i can learn about flight principals)

i wound up buying a hobbyzone plane, a V tail. (i didnt like the way it looked, i wanted a cessna or a japanese zero or something cool!) but i succumbed to much pressure from the sales staffs at multiple hobby stores who kept saying this is the plane to learn on, if you buy something else youre gonna break it and wind up spending lots of time and money fixing it (altho i was given a choice- either buy one of these, or buy a $300 gas plane and take lessons)

boy were they right, i crash this thing all the time. it has taken quite a beating over the last week, last night it said enough already! and the tail broke. but the night before i had 4 successful flights/landings. no biggie, the tail costs ten bucks.

but through the school of hard knocks i learned a few things, and when god permits i can actually fly this thing in a smooth circle around me, about 15 feet off the ground. i had to learn that ALTITUDE is step 1 (g) and to be gentle with the controls. and to fly in an area free of obstacles. and dont fly in any wind. and i learned all this the hard way. =) (maybe im lucky to still have a plane)

i still have things to learn and really want to learn, but at this point its becoming difficult cause these are sortof nuances of flying... learning how little boosts of power can affect the plane, how flying in relation to the wind can gain me altitude.. when to power and when to back off, im still trying to learn how to land well.. i think at this point it would be helpful to be around people who know and can teach me, because i dont really 'know' anything about flying. but so far it's been a lot of fun. =) and not too expensive, i bought a plane that was bigger than i wanted or needed, i think i would have been just as happy with one of the smaller hobbyzone planes (i bought the big 'commander', i think it is 42" wingspan- i think i would have preferred something smaller and slower) but overall it has been a good plane and taken my abuse well.

When I am helping new people learn to fly, my main goal is to keep their plane from crashing. This is accomplished by keeping the plane 2 mistakes high when they are flying.

When it gets out of control, any good trainer will level itself out if you just let go of the sticks. But only if you are enough mistakes high that it can recover.

The crux of this being - "ALTITUDE IS YOUR FRIEND"

You guys are lucky i've had to ATTEMPT to teach myself with firebird. now the wings are broken and i'm still out of money. If it wasn't for my grandpa giving me a bunch of his stuff i'd be stuck with a broken plane still but i have a GWS J3 built and ready for a charger and transmitter and i'm NOT GOING TO TEACH MYSELF(key is broken for exclamation)

>When I am helping new people learn to fly, my main goal is to keep their plane from crashing. This is accomplished by >keeping the plane 2 mistakes high when they are flying.

>When it gets out of control, any good trainer will level itself out if you just let go of the sticks. But only if you are enough >mistakes high that it can recover.

>The crux of this being - "ALTITUDE IS YOUR FRIEND"


There's no doubt that I'd read this many times, but it seemed to be self evident and/or intuitive.

It's probably also the single most important thing that allowed me to learn on my own with so little effort.

When you're WAY up there, you have time to react, time to make some mistakes, evaluate, correct and continue on.

However, I suppose, to most, it just LOOKS too cool down low to take the time to learn "way up there" (G)