rdmonster

Hello all. Im an experienced nitro r/c monster truck guy. I decided to get into planes. I initially bought a Hobbico Park Pilot and all I can say is what a waste of money.A total disapointment. I didn't expect it to do much but it barely flew at all. I decided to get a proper plane on impulse and decided to get a Great Planes PT electric. In kit form no less. Im fairly experienced with model building of most types but have never attempted a plane before. I looked closely at the kit and read the very detailed plans twice and it doesn't seem like anything I can't handle( At least I don't lack in confidence)! I plan on getting an instructor to teach me how to fly it as I don't want to destroy what looks to be a considerable amount of labor.(Yes I actually flew the park pilot without one succesfully)I would like to know if the more experienced hands out there have any hints about some of the more daunting tasks such as covering and choice of radios.I'm also wondering what an average build time for such a project would be( I know anything will be a ballpark but I'm curious just the same).One last thing is this plane does not have an ESC but just a servo actuated on/off switch.I understand all this and have no problem leaving it this way as the manual says absolutely nothing about adding an ESC but wonder if anyone has any sugestions regarding this. It seems the manual is obsessed with weight which I know is very important but I also know that ESC's come in very small configurations and I would eliminate a servo and a switch so the trade off would be equal. Any way any help would be great because I'm in it for real now!! I'm already looking at more stuff to build it with and am dreaming of the day when I'm good enough to get a really cool plane.Ahhh...someday!! Thanks The Monster

Old Man

Road Monster you are almost my neighbor I live next to Eagle Creak Golf course. The manual was corredt when it said that weight is an issue. I remove reciever cases, cut the mounting ears off of sevros and limit my use of epoxy to keep the weight down. I hav enot seen the Great Planes PT electric, so I do not have much advise for that plane. I am sure that an ECS would weigh much less than a servo. I realize that you already have the Pt but the Slow Stick and the Slow V are very good trainers. Both will take a ton of abuse and fly again with minimal repairs.

Where are you going to fly? What radio do you have? Have you found an instructor?

David

rdmonster

Man What luck for me!! You need to PM me with some details and when my bird is built maybe we can fly! I take my kids to eagle creek park a ton in the summer. I've decided to upgrade the motor for the plane after some info I've been reading.Great planes makes a more powerful motor with a gearbox and an esc that is essentially a whole power system.Its only like 60 bucks and is rated for a far heavier plane then the PT electric. I have also heard good things about the planes you mentioned and if I crack up my first build I may have to go there. I don't have an instructor yet but will sure try before my maiden flight!! Any hints or info about flying clubs would be awesome. Where I live can't be more than 15 minutes from you so who knows!! Thanks !! Monster

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

The PT Electric is a great first balsa plane. Flies pretty slow and is very stable. Put the dihedral called for into the wing and add the washout It is pretty tolerant of weight differences so don't worry too much about it. Don't go overboard with glue and stuff and it will be fine. Try to keep all up weight under 50 oz.
The PT was my second RC plane and I flew it for years. I highly recommend it for a balsa plane. Some foam planes are tougher but with some help it should work great.
Get some large light foam wheels (2.5 or 3") if flying off grass.
Also get a geared motor. You will have to reconfigure the nose to get it in but it will work much better than direct drive with longer flight time. They talk of using the old subC battery packs that was all there was when the kit came out. Now you might be able to use smaller lighter packs and save a ton of weight.
I used Monocote to cover but there are others coverings too like Ultracoat. Cover the bottom of the wing a dark color and the top lighter, like dark blue on bottom, white or a light color on top, with some stripes or trim in a contrasting color like red so when flying you can tell the top from the bottom.
Build time for me was around 50 hours.

Old Man

Foamaholic
rdmonster live very close to me and I have agreed to teach him how to fly. I know nothing about the PT electric, but I have build many planes balsa and foam. Would you be willing to help us since you have already build this plane?

I have taught my kids how to fly but that was my money. I want to be sure that rd gets a good start.

I gave him my phone number and I am hoping that he will call today before he spends too much money on possibly the wrong things.

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

Glad to help all I can. Glad too to hear you will teach him. It will be much easier for him.
Since you've built balsa planes you won't have any trouble with the PT. The instructions are excellent, except for the stuff about motors, batteries, and (lack of) esc's, and the motor mount is way too flimsy. It's not a lazer kit but the parts fit well.
You guys just ask away and I'll try to answer.
If you want to do some off the forums maybe we can eschange emails.

Old Man

What motor should he get? Will the GWS stuff work? I use the GWS gearboxes with brushed and brushless motors. They seem to be the most commonly used motors and I want to try and get him set up so that he can reuse as much as possible for his future planes.

Foamaholic

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Well, I'm a brushless fan now, but for brushed wouldn't one of the Great Planes motor and gearox in the 500 size work? 2 or 3 to 1 gear ratio.
Does GWS have 500 size stuff? I know they have 400 but don't know if that would be enough for the PT.

Old Man

I don't think that they make anything that big. I usually use the IPS box with a brushless, 300 or 350 with a gearbox, brushed and brushless. I did buy 10 of the DCM-189 motors and I am getting ready to build some small DD stuff. ewo has some really cool planes that I want to build.

Foamaholic

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The PT weighs about 3 pounds, although with smaller batteries maybe less like 2.5.
Just guessing here. I only flew mine with 500 motors, direct drive, then geared.
Recently I put a Jeti 16/15/4 brushless direct on 8 800 cells.
When I fly it again I'll use lipos, 3s TP 2100. Should save about 8 or 9 ounces.

Old Man

Lipos is only thing that I fly you will love the performance boost. I need to find out what kind of a buget he has. I wish I knew enough about the Great Planes to power systems to advise him. Looks like it is time to do a little digging.

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, I'll look around too.

Old Man

Thanks for the help. I just got a pm from rd, he is at work. He works some insane hours for a local childrens hospital. Knowing that he works there makes me want to help him that much more.

Foamaholic

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Here is a Great Planes motor/gearbox.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXUB34&P=7
Here is an Electrifly esc. May not need the 30 amp, 20 should do with gear drive.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXUR96&P=7
I really like Castle Creations esc's.
Both have BEC so you don't need a receiver pack.

Old Man

Good find. I am steering him towards the Airtronics VG6000 radio. We have four of them. They are a great beginners computer radio at a great price, and it should serve him well for a long time. That way he is not buying another radio in the near future. I flew mine for a year before I gave it to my daughter to replace her VG400. You can see them here.

Internet-rc http://www.internet-rc.com/aivgse.html

Tower of Hobbies http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...I=LXEUY5**&P=0

I also have a JR XP9303 so with either brand we can use a trainer cord. I know very little about the low end JR radios.
Do you know anything about the Low end JR radios?

We have around 15 of the CC ECS and I have only had one fail. #2 son hovered for three consecutive 3s 1500 mAh packs and when the motor shorted it took the ECS and the receiver with it. Can't blame that on the ECS. And you can't fix stupid!

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

Don't know anything about them.
Have had a couple Futaba's. Then a Hitec Flash 5 that I really liked, now a Hitec Optic 6 too that I really like.
I agree to get a radio that will serve him a long time.

Old Man

The specs on the 600 gearbox call for 13-16 amps at 8.4 volts. CC has the pixie 20 but I would feel more comfortable with something bigger. We still don't know what batteries he is going to get. I don't have Motor Calc so I need to find out what kind of amps it would be pulling wiht 3s Lipos.

I have three old Futaba radios but they are all out dated. We bought five radios for Christmas, and everything the kids needed to start e flight so Futabas were not an option. It was a hard switch to make but the Airtronics have been very goog radios, specially wen you consider the price.

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

I think geared you would be around 15 amps, but the bigger the esc the better. The weight difference isn't that much.
Wish I knew the amp draw on 3s too but I doubt it would be over 20 if geared 3:1 and not over propped.

rdmonster

After reading your exchanges I realize how much there is for me to learn!! I was thinking of using the GreatPlanes s600 setup that comes as a complete power system. Its only sixty nine bucks through tower and comes with the motor/ESC/gearbox and a wooden prop.I think its actually the same as the items in the link you posted but comes as a complete system for like a dollar less.Hey every little bit counts. Its rated for a heavier plane so should give plenty of extra power. I think I may buy the Airtronics VG6000 that was recomended to me by the old man. Its only a little more than the vg4000(?) and seems to have alot more features.I haven't given alot of thought to the batteries I will use yet but I would like to have as much power as possible. I've always thought that it's better to have it and not use it than need it and not have it! I don't have an unlimited budget but so far I think I will be able to afford everything on my list. I'm heading to the hobby shop tomorrow to buy some tools I may need and get some glue as most of my CA is old and I don't want to start that way. I couldn't imagine my luck when I found someone right away willing to give me instruction and advice.I feel like I'm ahead of the game already and I haven't even started yet! Thanks guys Rdmonster

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

I forgot that the PT comes with a motor. Could probably put a gearbox on it.

rdmonster

Foamaholic , I thought of that but the supplied motor turns in the opposite direction from thr motors that use a gearbox. I didn't know if it could be wired to spin the opposite direction. If I have to buy the esc and gearbox it's going to be near what the whole system I'm looking at would be anyway.It'll be a little bit before I decide so give me your thoughts. By the way is a purpose built heat gun needed or would my wifes hairdryer work for the covering. I know I'll need an iron and will get one soon but what about a heat gun? Thanks

Old Man

RD hold up on any purchases until you need to by them. A regular clothes iron will work for the covering and I have a heat gun that you can use if you need one. Let me research the motor that comes with the plane. It may work, I don't know but we can find out. The only thing worse than a underpowered plane is a tail heavy plane.

Lets get together and talk before you buy too much. It is very easy to drop a ton of money in this hobby so lets be sure that we spend it wisely. Go ahead and start building if you have time, and we can talk on the phone before you buy anything else.

We have a VG400 radio and it is not nearly as nice as the VG6000. Specially when you consider the price difference. It is a little more money up front but you will not be buying another radio for a long time.

I have a new plane comming this week and if it flies like I think it should, I will install one of my kids receivers in it. That way we can get out the buddy cord and get you some stick time. It is called the BAT. You can see it here http://www.dcrcradiocontrol.com/ It looks like a neat little plane and is supossed to be very durable. It is made out of the same foam as swimming pool noodles. I have heard nothing but good things about it. It looks like a good plane to thrash around.

When the BAT gets here, I can show you the differences between the two radios. Right now I do not have a plane that I would even consider flying without the exponential or dual rates. There are some things that you need to experience to really see the importance and I think that this is one of them.

I have a ton of homework to do today, if possible, give me a call on Tuesday.

Foamaholic

My Feedback: (1)

rdmonster -- listen to the Old Man. He knows what he's talking about and will give you all the help you need to get goiing the right way. You are very lucky to have someone who is willing to help. I taught myself how to fly and I don't recommend it. I did learn though.
I think the motor is a 500 something, maybe a Goldfire 550 if they still use them. Anyway, just reverse the motor wires and it will spin the other way. Might not be quite as good as one that is made to spin the right way but still works. There is a lot of talk about breaking in the motors and I have done that a lot, maybe 20 of them. It's not hard and extends motor life and gives more power, but not a whole lot. Anyway, after going through so many motors, they don't last all that long if you fly a lot, I've gone all brushless and wouldn't go back. Nothing wrong with starting with brushed, cheaper, but in the long run after buying a bunch of brushed replacement motors, you have spent enough on them to have gotten a brushless. So start brushed but don't buy too many of them.

Old Man

RD here is the scoop. From what I have learned you need the Kyosho Magnetic Mayhem (22T), GP3300 batteries and a Pegasus 35 amp ESC. I am not sure where to find them and I still have a ton of home work. Looks like it may be an all nighter! When you get some time do some checking around an let us know what you find. Foamaholic or I can tell you if it is a reputable dealer.

Also the BAT arrived in the mail today right after we got off of the phone. It does not look like I will get to assemble it tonight but I should have it built by Thursday. Hopefully the weather will cooperate and we can get you some stick time. It stinks to sit and study right next to a new plane and not have the time to build it!!!!!![:@]

Foamaholic

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Found this on one of the RC Groups threads.

was told to put a masterairscrew gearbox on it with a 12x8 masterairscrew electric prop and that alone made it a whole differant plane. It was easier to fly with more power. Better climb/recovery/response ect.

Someone else put a Jeti Phasor 16/15/3 from Hobby Lobby brushless motor, direct drive, 8-4 prop.
I put a 16/15/4 in mine and it's awsome. Goes almost straight up.