I'm trying to decide on a 3rd plane to get and need some help. My first plane was a sailplane and second was the hobbyzone super cub. I'd like to move towards something a little more advanced with ailerons and 4 channels. I've heard that the hobbyzone aerobird swift is a good aileron trainer but I'm not really sure how I feel about the V tail. Since i've already got the supercub, i don't really want another cub-looking plane... any ideas? Full build, ARF, or RTF are all OK options

A few options:

Multiplex Mini-Mag - High wing 4 channel trainer - easy to fly but with a decent motor can also teach you some aerobatics.
GWS Estarter - Cheap, 4 channel, easy to fly, durable.
GWS Tigermoth 400 - Beautiful scale bi plane, easy to fly, easy to repair, but not as durable as the estarter. Can do some mild acrobatics with provocation.
Stevens Aero RV4 - Kit build balsa - a beautiful flyer and flys well on cheap brushless setup. Doesn't tolerate bad landings. Kind of expensive.

I wouldn't worry about the vtail on the swift - from your perpsective it's just like a normal elevator it just means it doesn't mean a vertical and horiztonal stabiliser. Only drawback on the swift is the lack of rudder - the vtail is setup to do elevator stuff only.

There's a few thoughts for you.

Cheers,
oz.

mcalex9 :::zrcboy is right-on with all those planes, alerons are MUCH easyer than rudder only!! I'll wager after the first flite you'll have forgot you even have a rudder,your bub, scoooper pS you can put alerons on a slow stick for about 2o$

If you're interested in a pusher, take a look at the Wing Dragon 4 RTF Aileron Trainer: http://www.hobby-lobby.com/wingdragon4.htm

Really would reccomnd the Multiplex Minimag, I had the Swift as a 1st plane, destroyed my Xmas present in 6 seconds on Boxing day then bought the Super Cub same as you and FMS. Got bored with the Super Cub fairly quickly and tried the Swift again, it was a horrible plane in my opinion, then went to the Minimag absolutely superb. Have just moved up again but will keep the Minimag for my son as it's so good at what it's designed for.

The Minimag is probably your best choice, followed by the E-starter. If you want to take a much bigger step, get the Typhoon. Keep it on low rates and you have a very nice flying plane.

Mcalex9 It would seem you have some experience on the sticks and if the super cub is getting boring then the GWS Formosa might interest you, it is a low wing plane that can fly fast and yet slow down and float in very nice. I had one for a long time and very much enjoyed it, it can be good for learning aerobatics after you get used to the ailerons, that is the only down side to the mini mag or e starter they are limited in what they can do because of the high wing and having more dehedrial than the formosa. I have a E-Starter now and consider it my most reliable but predictable plane, I fly it all the time but for a nice easy relaxing flight not all out adrenilin flying
Just a thought, good luck with what ever you choose

Thanks for the great feedback. I've been looking around and the Steven's Aero Stick caught my eye... mainly from the description they had for the plane:

They are RIGHT ON with that statement. Do any of you have any first had experience with this plane? AJ1202, how's the GWS Formosa for durability? Just in case something unfortunate happened, do they offer replacement wings since it is a foam model?
Thanks

Yep you can get all the parts for it seperatly, I will say if just a little time is taken during the build the plane is very hearty, I got mine sent to me by a freind, it was a little damaged from many flights before I got it. the first time I flew it I smashed it, I just glued it back together then made a couple mods and off we went again, that plane took more crashes and got repaired more times than I can even remember and it would just keep flying once repaired. The final crash that killed it realy didn't kill it I just decided I had repaired it so many times it was time to let it go, this being a year later and umteen dozen repairs and mods, here's a couple pics for fun. first is how I decorated it after I got it, second is about a year later when I wanted it to be different, 3rd was after,,,, well you can see taught me not to fly in the early morning light right as the sun crest the trees

Not sure where you saw that quote but here it is in full and they've just decided to be selective about what to use !!!!!!!!!

But part of what makes it such a success as a beginner’s airplane – its slow, almost casual way of flying – also works against it if there’s much of a breeze out. Also, it certainly is not what anyone would call a precise flyer. Flying a Slow Stick is more a collaborative effort between the pilot, the airplane and the wind than direct control by the pilot.

So while it is good for teaching the rudiments of controlling an R/C model (and it is an amazingly flexible platform for all manner of kit-bashing), when it’s time to move up to full four-channel control, or fly under less-constrained conditions, it leaves something to be desired. Further, its casual manner is not ideal for teaching how to be in control of the airplane and making it do what YOU want to do at all times rather than just steering it around approximately where you want it to go. A lot of low-time pilots want to jump directly from the Slow Stick to something like the GWS warbirds, but going straight to a low-wing aileron-equipped warbird is a bit of a stretch for most folks.

The link for thw hole write up is http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=571116

In all honesty I don't think it's that much further forward from what you've got and if you have a hard landing I can't see it taking it that well !!!!!!!!!!!!!
At the riskk of sounding like a broken record but as I've been there myself I really would look at the Minimag, I needed it to get endless flight time and had tried more advanced having flown th swift and destroyed it I then tried a Ultrafly PC9 and an Art-Tech Mustang both of which I reduced to rubble in no time at all before goimng back to the Minimag on advice from an instructor. The only downside I can see is if you fly a lot again you'll be like me and in 3 months wanting the next stage up as it again becomes a bit mundane although I had moved all the throws up could roll / slow roll, fly it inverted a ong way (it doiidn't want to stay inverted though and is hard to hold there) but before I moved up I got to the stage I knwo I was in absolute control of the plane (on higher rates) and for want of a better description was able to lioterally thrwo it aroubd in the knowing if I got it wrong I could bring it back to level flight. Unfortunately you're not ready to move up a peg until you get to that stage and to skip a level it's probably going to be expensive simply because you end up having to go back to thej step you missed unless you're very lucky.
Only other suggestion may be a Muliplex Gemini but again I wonder is it's step too far bu if you've got FMS find the dowloads for some really sensitive planes like the E-Flight Mini Funtana and Mini Edge and the Extreme Flight Extra 300 and have a few hours with those you may be able to then skip a level.
AJ would ove to hear any more on the Formosa, I've just bought an Acromaster which is fantastic but the flight times really short and it's a big plane to put in the car, would ideally like something smaller that can go in with wings on and can take anywhere and keep the Acro for close to home, how aerobatic is it, could it 3D / prop hang, what engine / batteries did you have and waht was the flight time approx ??????
Sorry to put my own question into someone else's thread but the answers may help you to decide if it's a plane you could cope with or not !!!
Cheers,
Neville

Neville stay tuned for more about the formosa, I have a few freinds that have and fly them and I WILL be getting another one as I realy liked mine A LOT I have a funny vid and the final flight I'll post later just for fun. Gotta go for now but stay tuned

OK I'll try to keep this short, the plane I had was given to me by a freind, it was a little busted up when I got it, I glued it all together and put the stock geared 350 motor in it, it flew very good but lacked real power, (you know as I think back this plane was a first for a lot of things)
anywho I flew it like that for a few months and one day my freind and I installed a brushless motor in it, this was my first experience with a BL motor, on the fisrt flight the power was so balistic to me I lost control and promply crashed it again ,,, well I put it back together and began a little easier with the power and got used to it, then I found I could learn all sorts of things like flying inverted, inside and outside loops, realy nice almost axial rolls, just short of unlimited vertical flights, and the best part was I went from 5 min flights to up to 30 min on 1 batt. My set up was a BP-21 with a 7X4 prop and a 3S 1350 ma lipo and that is what stayed on it till it's final flight that dreaded morning [] My AUW was around 25 oz and would have been more like 18 to 20 if not for all the glue/packing tape and paint I had added over it's life.

hi ya all i just want'ed to put my 2 cents in on the third plane i would suggest a zagi from trick rc its a flying wing that is about indestuctable flys well slow or fast up to 25mph winds don't affect it much. with it i learned to look ahead of my models or more were they are going and not were the are its a very easy build about 2 hours not alot a special tools to put together heck most of the planes come with moter bat, and a speed controller so you would only need a cheapo radio with v tail mixxing ( i think i had a hiteck elltron or something like that its very much like the ones that come with the parkzone models) But any waya least for me the zagi was a huge confandace builder i crashed it so many times its not even funny and i never totaled it out i learned to fly with it and so did many of my friends any way good luck hope this helps

My Zagi XT is alot of fun, not necessarily something I'd call a trainer though, especially launching, it's a major pain. You are correct, they are virtually indestructable, well at least the ones that are made in all EPP.

Something you might want to do is try out the building element, this way when you crash, you can make new parts on your own. Look up Simple and free first foam flyer in the foamies section, that's an easy one to build and it's an excellent flyer.

Thanks for everyone's input. I'm thinking that I might start off with the Estarter and then move over to the Formosa in the future. Now the question becomes what accessories will work with both of these planes and possibly more in the future. I have an exisiting Hitech 4-channel transmiter and micro servos that I'd like to reuse, and I'll start out with the stock motors so the rest of my shopping list looks like :

-Battery (prefferably Lipo)
-Charger (that charges 2-3s)
-Reveiver (micro size)
-ESC
anything else?

I think one of my main concerns is ordering these pieces and finding out they've all got different connectors... btw, anyone know of some good deals??

Mcalex everything that fits in the ES will fit and work in the formosa, however you will find you get better performance with a lower KV motor in the ES. If your going to use the stock motors, (and there is nothing wrong with that) stay with 2S lipo's as 3S will cook your motors in short order. I would suggest using ultra deans connectors for your batt and ESC connections
you shouldn't have any issues with things working together. I will post some links for you later with some pretty good deals on batts and RX
I for one think you will be happy with the ES

I built a Stevens Aero Stik for my first aileron trainer. Moved my Slow Stick brushless motor/ESC/Receiver to the Stik and it is a great trainer capable of outside/inside loops, rolls, inverted flight, slow flight, fast flight, etc.

Building and covering it was fun and quite a learning experience in and of itself. Learning to set it up for flight was also an excellent learning experience.