RCU Forums - CDI gr8flyer55

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RE: CDI gr8flyer55

hi john, thanks for the reply to my odd question. (its hardly an rc model !) what cdi are you refering to ? is it something you make or sell ? i could make a new alternator to supply a regulated dc to run it ? (the origional alternator only generates power during ex / intake / comp, to charge the cap. it dosent generate any power near to fireing.) if it was a full circle rotor, the output would be double, so that seems very good. the spark timing could be an issue. at kick over speed (approx 150 rpm) it fiers at tdc. from there to 2500 rpm it advances (linier) to 36 / 38 degree btdc. it stays at that angle to 8000 rpm (max) how the the lucas rita pickup is configured it works very well. i have never had any dealing with a hall sensor (35 years making and fixing race bikes and cars) but it could be a posibility. early ccm cdi (1970,s) used a single power transistor. later models used a single mosfet, these were free running oscillatos. dose yours use 2 mosfets and a crystal of some sort to make a stable frequence ?
thanks stew.

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Well everyone these are the lastest fixes to the spreadsheet and so far everything seems to be working ok as far as the copying of values. As usual let me know if there are any other problems. This is version 1.1

Ray

CDI-2012_v1.0-F1.1.xlsm
unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/CDI-2012_v1.0-F1.1.xlsm

Pull-ups are turned off for the switches and the polarities are reversed CDI-2012_v1.0_B-F1.1.xlsm
unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/Pull-ups%20are%20turned%20off%20for%20the%20switches%20 and%20the%20polarities%20are%20reversed%20CDI-2012_v1.0_B-F1.1.xlsm

Revisions and Fixes Jan 1-2013.txt
unimatrixtech.com/CDI-2012/excel/Revisions%20and%20Fixes%20Jan%201-2013.txt</p>

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Stew there is no easy answer to your question without knowing more about your current setup.
Stew CDI's basically come in 2 versions, AC and DC, and this relates to their power supply. AC useseither a AC output magneto or alternatorand DC is usually a combination of a battery and/or a AC magneto, AC alternator, or DC generator. On my Ski-Doo the Rotax engine is a AC magneto (lighting coil and large cap)and the CDI converts this to regulated DC for the CDI ignition. On my Honda XL250 it uses a battery and a regulated AC alternator, the battery is used to provide power to the CDI for starting and once rpm comes up the alterantor provides power. There are many different designs and ways to power a CDI, for example, some use the higher voltage of the AC magneto to provide the stepup voltage (about 90 - 250volts AC)to the ignition coil. These use a thyristor, SCR, or MOSFET to discharge the cap andtrigger the coil. In this setup no oscillator for voltage stepup is required but, you have to kick the motor over quite fast to start and most people I know replaced or modifiedthis system with a battery or very large capacitor for starting power. They also had to add a very large (power) zener, resistorand arectifier to control charging.

As John pointed out about or system is that it requires 6-12volts to the 5 volt regulator which in turnsupplies power to the Timer and HV boards. How go get 6 -12 volts to 5 volt regulator is up to you. Right now you can make your own, ask Gompy if he has something that will work or wait until someone else offers a built system.

Ray

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Very well thought out description and answers to those questions Ray. I think on Robs site there is an AC scooter ignition build and schematic from which Stew can decipher enough information to completely replace or solve his ignition's lack of startup voltage. I actually built one of those TCI systems back when Rob first posted them and it actually worked as a replacement on an old Kawasaki dirt bike. There are also others like our CDI project he could use. Transmic's site had plenty of info on doing just that.
Either way, it seems he needs the basic hv generation circuit, the constant oscillator to make his high voltage first. A small battery powered version would get him in the ballpark of what he needs to accomplish, the 250 volts for charging the cap.

John
P.s.
Thanks for posting your new fixes for the excel sheets!
I'm sure we are on the trouble free path now. Programmed a 683 chip with Rob's hex, now all I need is a warmer day to run my engine with it and check it out for timing etc.

John

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Rob, what board and chip was the hex file for?

John

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

hi ray, the company that actualy made all the cdi,s for ccm are still going ! over the years i have bought several different types of cdi from them and some second hand from the speedway community, to get the old bike running. one was a new designe with a different trigger set up (still a coil and magnet, but the magnet rotates) this was in 1993. it cost over £300 ! it was powered from the same 1/3 segment alternator not generaring continuos power. the spark energy at kick over speed was very good. unfortunatly the timing advance was hoples. there was not enough range of movement in the electronis. if it was set so it could be started without kicking back, it would not rev. if set to rev it would kick back so hard it would break engine parts ! (putting the kick start leaver through the sole of my boot) they said there was nothing wrong this new ignition and would not repear or replace it. i went back to re chargeable boxes uesing the lucas trigger. i even repared one of the with the help of an rc plane freind of mine. when the last one of these stopped working i un potted the £300 box to see if i could modify it to run with the correct trigger. i have not been able to get it to go. for the last year or so i have been in monthly contact with the origional company to get another ignition. at first they were going to make a new alternator system uesing new inverter technology, to give a more reliable eficent cdi. but i have given up on that and spent the last 2 months trying to sort it out. the ac from the oscillator is over 500 volts when rectifyed it is still over 400 volts dc this is probbably to overcome the compression stresses in the engine ? i may be old fashion with regard to digital or programable stuff but the old technology cdi can work very will. all i need is the power supply !
stew

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hErWYdA57IQ[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kna6hCuFo3U[/youtube]

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Rob, looks like you have the timing problem solved, and your ignition is working good with lots of spark energy at high rpms.
Very nice indeed!

John

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

I tried programming a 683 chip with that attached hex file and it just sits there, no action. Not sure what's wrong. Tried jumpers on, jumpers off, no response from the chip. Give it a try Ray and see what you get. I reprogrammed the same chip with my hex file and it works fine.

John

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Code:

 :020000000F28C7

 :10000800FE00030EF8000408F9000A08FA0083123B

 :080018007F08FB00122B612C94

 :10020000FF1B0A2983137F1883170008840A031928

 :10021000FF0A08007F087F398A000408840A03194E

 :10022000FF0A820079340934283400341834003449

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 :1002400001340034283400340034003400340034E5

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 :10028000663400346D340034743400347A3400340D

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 :10046000863403348D340334943403349A3403349F

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 :1005600031340534383405343E34053445340534EB

 :100570004C34053452340534593405346034053470

 :10058000663405346D340534743405347A340534F6

 :1005900081340534883405348E340534953405347B

 :1005A0009C340534A2340534A9340534B034053400

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 :1005E000AB340634D5340634FF34063429340734AA

 :1005F000543407347E340734A8340734D2340734F3

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 :100620004E3409340B1E152B162B862B8B1C192BC5

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 :1006A0002808F301F3072708F201F2071224710862

 :1006B000831294019407700893019307782B230801

 :1006C000F7002208F6000130FF000310F60DF70DC9

 :1006D000FF0B652B76082D07840077080318770A2F

 :1006E0002E07FF000021930000219400782B782B27

 :1006F0008C1283168C1683128E018F01AC010C10A4

 :1007000010148512AB010314AB0DBB2B83168C1E8A

 :100710008A2B8B2B9A2B83128C1E8F2B902B9A2B30

 :100720008C1285104230F600F60B942B00008312D9

 :100730008514BB2B83160C1C9E2B9F2BBB2B83126B

 :100740000C1CA32BA42BBB2B0C10103085068C1279

 :1007500083168C12083083122C02031CB02BB12B91

 :10076000B32BAB01BB2B0130F6007608AC07BB2BDB

 :10077000BB2BBB2BBB2B7B088312FF007A088A00A4

 :1007800079088400780E8300FE0E7E0E090070301A

 :1007900083168F040F140F19CE2BCF2BDE2B0230B4

 :1007A0008312A6000430A500BA30A400A40BD62BF7

 :1007B000A50BD62BA60BD62B0000DE2B83168F188D

 :1007C000E22BE32BF22B02308312A6000430A500AB

 :1007D000BA30A400A40BEA2BA50BEA2BA60BEA2B3C

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 :1008000094018C1283168C121430831290001008FD

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 :100820000C140800F401F501152C701C182C192C5F

 :100830001F2C7208F4070318F50A7308F507013036

 :100840000310F20DF30DFF3E031D202C01300310A9

 :10085000F10CF00CFF3E031D272C71087004031DE2

 :10086000322C332C152C342C7508F101F107740847

 :10087000F001F0073B2C0800043083122D078400A0

 :100880002E0803182E0AFF000021A7000021A8004F

 :1008900006302D0784002E0803182E0AFF000021C1

 :1008A000A9000021AA0008000C30831685008312DD

 :1008B0008514C7233C248B170B17831210145F2C4D

 :1008C0000F28A701A801A901AA01AB01AC016D2461

 :0E08D000AD006E24AE008301542C123481342E

 :08400000FF3FFF3FFF3FFF3FC0

 :02400E00E4F0DC

 :00000001FF

I'm only the hardware guy and Jack the software guru.
Maybe Jack know wat the problem can be and make a new sourcecode.

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Rob,
Did you alter the source code to give the hex file that you posted in conjunction with your latest videos....???

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Jeff, I received some circuit boards in the mail from someone I sold ignition and timer kits to a while back. They are factory made, double sided good plated boards. I think they are very well made and can't wait to add components and test them. Wanted to post the bare board picture first so everyone can have a look before I do that.

If the picture doesn't look good, I'll take another. Let me know.

John

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Nice boards John, I hope they work out for you.

Ray

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Hi John....just had the largest flood in history here and it took out pretty-much everything so it will be a while before I'm back into it I'm afraid.

Still drop in and take a peek now and then though.

cheers...Jorgo

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Sorry to here about the floods Jeff. We get major floods here in the Red River valley quite often. I hope the best for you.

Ray

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

PIC 12F1840 on a tablet

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKb5ImZ03Yc[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58shn6x19i0[/youtube]

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

You are saying a new design?

Did you already posted this kind of design , in your site?

Some of the links of your site seems to be broken or not functionning

I am trying to develope a CDI for motorbikes of 50cc

Inspired in your electronics, coud you please send or post , some functional link ,please?

If you wish some pictures of what i am doing you could ask.

Br

Nuno Monteiro

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Hard- and software are allmost ready, but the weather is to bad to test.
We don't think to make the new designe opensource / free.
To many people want to control the hard-and software.
A other problem will be, some people "steal" ower designe and sold it.
Maybe we gone sell a pre programmed PIC with the bootloader and the software by licence.

After 41 years working for one company they fired me.
I get some money to eat and live, but sometimes we want todo something nice.
We don't want to win the lottery, but a few euro extra is allways welcom.

They hack my server for 2 weeks ago and change all the HTML-files.
Gompy is not the only website I host, but the commercial websites have to be rebuild firts.
There are about 6.000 HTML-files on the server I have to be check.
I can't put the backupfiles to the server without checking them, backups are allways older.

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHk5QviGLgA[/youtube]

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

Dear Gompy

It seems quite fair for me.

If you could sell a package with an attractive price it will be great

By other hand , i work with electronics, and testing your circuits , is very good for me

I tested your fist circuit ( the first of all) , and very cool works great.

I didn´t not tested with the advance , because all that excel files seem a bit confuse for me

My purpose is the Bikes , not the airplanes, aplying the knowledge and tests based on the ignition circuits , has a start point

Have you got any solution ( pic with boatloader) for a motorbike 50 cc , that can reach 20 000 rpm´s , and with enough energy for the spark @ 20000 rpm´s?

It is a special bike that me and a friend of mine are preparing to go up to that kind of revolutions.

So i am seeking a solution for our engine

If you wish you could mail me for my personal email : [email protected]

Best Regards

Nuno

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

hy gompy,

i am interested about your cdi programable. i know you have more time to this project. i will give you some .... to eat. i am from indonesia and hobby electronica.
please send me email :[email protected]

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

nice post and video. i like it

Quote:

ORIGINAL: Gompy

PIC 12F1840 on a tablet

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKb5ImZ03Yc[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58shn6x19i0[/youtube]

RE: CDI gr8flyer55

The program isn't ready tested IRL, it's to cold.
Latest free Android test-version can be found here
http://www.bucket.gompy.net/cdi-android01.apk

BTW, the program and hardware are not for free anymore.
We are thinking how we can sold the packet.
A pre-programmed PIC with the bootloader and secured.
The program a online licence with a limit activate time.
The HV will be free for use, but it isn't the small version Adrian sell.