No, those will not work at all. You need a proper prop hub. Remember, safety?

Yes, get the muffler clamped in a vise and use a flat head screwdriver to start that crimp coming undone. The hardest part is getting it started. Once you start raising the crimp, it is easy to work your way around a little at a time and get it bent up enough to get the muffler apart.

AV8TOR

True. I was looking at the JAG engines website and saw that hey have a Prop hub for long shaft MAGNETO engines thats $11 but looking at it I dont its going to work for the homelite engine since the website it says the parts are for Ryobi and MTD engines also the crankshaft on the homelite is keyed. The adapter looks like something that can be made from a coupling nut, two fender washers, and a nut and can be attached to a short shaft threaded crankshaft but I dont think that it would be to safe or smart. If the long shaft prop adapter from JAG would work then I would just buy that and know I have a good safe adapter. As for the prop I was think of using a 16x6 prop.

-sam:cool:

Ok my friend, my best advice here and then it's up to you. If you are not qualified to cut the shaft and thread it yourself, then have someone do it that can do it properly. Then contact either Ken at www.lambertsrc.com for a prop hub, or go ahead and buy the short shaft hub from Jag's engine if it will indeed fit the Homelite 30cc. If you don't have the money, have patience and save it up but do it right. Hey, you got the engine, mount, good carburetor, and muffler suitable for converting for only 40 bucks; spending a little money on it to convert it is still going to keep you under what a current glow engine of most any size would cost you.....

A Homelite 30cc likes either a 16 x 8 or an 18 x 6 prop depending on what kind of airplane it is on. 16 x 8 for a fast plane, 18 x 6 for a slower, larger plane.

AV8TOR

I wasn't going to cut the shaft my self I was going to ask my brother to do that. I like my ten fingers to much. And to thread it I'll take it to a machine shop. I sent a email to Lambert rc asking them if they have a prop adapter and I'm waiting for them to respond. Your right about the cost of this plane vs a glow equivalent. A glow would cost about $500 and a the spad is about $300.

As for the propeller. Since this is going on a 1/5 scale cub I'll go with a 18x6

Thanks
-sam: cool:

Hey guy,

Save your self some time and give Ken a phone call, and also call Carr Precision's number that is on that post I gave you about them. Carr Precision did a lot of Homelite conversions, and they might be going out of business. They might have a good deal for you if they are closing out stock. But they don't have a website anymore; you have to call them.

Hang in there and have patience, it will be cool when it all comes together, and you'll have a really good engine for far cheaper than you could ever buy one for; even the Chinese imports.

Quote:
Maybe Carr's domain ran out.That 's what happened to Major_Smackdown and he didn't get enough business anymore doing parts for Homelite and other r/c boat engines to keep his site up and running. He does still have some parts left and could make others if he has the materials. He also has some Homelite and John Deere engines to convert.He can be found on Flying Giants site.
Carr Precision is owned by David Carr and is still listed as a company in Redmond ,OR

Carr Precision
435 NE Spruce Ct.
Redmond,OR 97756
Phone 503-533-9496

There was another number for that address and it was 541-923-4009
Unquote.

AV8TOR

Quick update
Lambert from Lambert rc responed saying that he would have to see the engine to make a adapter. I sent an email to jag 3 days ago about the prop adapter and they didnt respond yet so I'll probably call them tomorrow. I'll try to give Carr persion a call tomorrow. I went to a hobby shop out of state and I was able to buy the 16oz fuel tank, the wheels, the landing gear, 3ft of fuel line, push rods, control horns, and some other stuff so I have some of the parts for the plane. Sadly the hobby store didnt have the prop I needed or the servos.
Right now the main thing I need is the prop adapter and the prop to get the motor finished.

-sam:cool:


EDIT:
called JAG engines but no one picked up so I'll just call again later. Also called Carr persion and both number i called were disconnected. Hopefully the jag engines adapter works.

-Quick update-

Called JAG engines and Dale(the guy who owns JAG engines) picked up. So I asked if the short shaft adapter would work and he said that it would since both the ryobi 31cc and the homelite 30cc have 5/16 shafts and have the same thread. So I went ahead and ordered the adapter, the prop washer, and the prop bolt. All for $31 shipped. He said that he wouldn't be able to make it until Monday after work and he would ship it Tuesday. So hopeful I'll have the adapter by Saturday the 18th.

I got the 16oz fuel tank that I am going to use in the plane built and connected it to the motor so now I just have to get the shaft cut and re threaded. I(well not me some one else is going to cut it)was going to cut to 3/4 of an inch based on the photo of the prop adapter. I might do the cutting and drilling on the muffler today and am thinking of two 1/2" holes for the outlet tubes. For the tubes I was going to use this this.

Thanks
-Sam:cool:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2108191

This isn't a update about the project really but rather about Dale at JAG engines.

I called JAG to ask if they shipped my stuff I I was greeted but someone who wasn't Dale( I cant remember his name) who told me that nothing was shipped this week because Dale has passed away. I only talked to Dale one time but I could tell that he was a friendly helpful guy and I am sure that he will be missed. I do not know what is going to happen to JAG engines. Maybe it will be closed down hopefully someone who knows how to use a lathe and alot of other workshop tools will take over but I am not sure.

-Sam:(

So I got a call from JAG engines saying that they would have to refund my money because they did not have the parts made. So i need a prop hub again. Does any one know of anywhere where I can get an adapter or if any one still makes them I would be happy to buy one.
I did get the prop so theres some progress.

-sam:cool:

If you don't find one in a couple of weeks, let me know and I'll make one up for you. My surgery recovery is going pretty good, and in a couple of weeks I should be able to make one, even if I have to make it in stages with rest breaks in between.

AV8TOR

Glad to here that you surgery went well. If i cant find one by the end of august then I'll PM you.
thanks.

-sam:cool:

Found this
http://www.valleyviewrc.com/estore/dle-30-propeller-drive-hub-assembly.html but i think the crankshaft on the homelite is to wide for the adapter. But then again I dont know the diameter of the 30cc DLE crankshaft.

-sam:cool:

EDIT:
I found this and this also. I am thinking that I can drill out the great planes adapter to 9.5mm.

So i found out the diameter of the dle 30cc crank shaft. Its 5/16" which is 1/16" to small. But i could drill it out to 3/8" then use a tap to thread it so i can screw it onto the homelite crankshaft. What do you think. Also I found out about ch ignition which sells some conversion parts. I called and they said that they would email me later to tell me if they have a homelite prop hub.

-sam:cool:

hey av8tor you said that you could make me a prop hub. But do you think that you could send me a detailed drawing of the prop hub. I ask because I called my local machine shop to see if they might be able to make the hub and they said they could but they would need a product drawing with the sizes and dimensions of the hub. I would make the drawing my self but I don't really know any of the dimensions for the hub.

Thanks
-Sam:cool:

So FINALLY after so much searching on the internet I found a shop that could make the part and I now have the finished prop hub. I went to the machine shop this morning and the guy who works there said that he could easily make one. So I showed him the 3D model I maid and he sketched a quick drawing and then went to work. He actually let me watch him make it and talked me through what he was doing since it's the first time I went to a machine shop. So I was standing there for about 1 1/2 hours and I got to see him using the manual lathe and I have to say it's pretty cool getting to see the guy get a solid piece of 2025 aluminum that he got from a scrap metal bin and turn it into the hub. So I can now get some more work done on the motor like taking the muffler to a welding shop so someone could weld in the outlet tubes.

I took a photo of the finished hub.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2112716http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2112717http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2112718

-Sam:cool:

Good job - congrats. But, you could have the machinist add some flats on the smaller shank so you can use a wrench to tighten it on. It would be a shame to use vise-grips on that nice surface.

Also some knurling added to the prop surface face will help keep the prop from slipping. Just practical hints offered in great sincerity.

Sincerely,
Richard

What I often do is make a hole clear through the large diameter part of the prop hub, and then use a Phillips screwdriver through the hole to tighten the prop hub. And yes, knurling the face of the prop mounting surface is almost a must. At this point, you could just glue some # 220 sandpaper to that face to help keep the prop from slipping. That will work too.

I strongly recommend using Loctite both on the threads where you thread the prop hub on the engine, and on the stud you will use to hold the prop on. Loctite is not needed on the prop nut itself, and not desired.

AV8TOR

Looks good. Post up pics when you get it mounted.

Good thought on the cross hole like a safety prop hub for tightening the hub to the engine. But sometimes it is nice to be able to keep the hub from turning while you tighten the prop nut. And good you mentioned using a STUD with Loctite for the prop rather than a bolt. Studs are available from auto rebuilding shops. A disc of drywall sanding mesh between the prop and the hub will keep it from slipping. The mesh having grit on both sides negates having to glue it on the hub and makes t easily replaceable. JMTCW.

Sincerely, Richard

spaceworm
The flats are a good idea but I kinda wanted the smooth hub look since the engine is going to be exposed. I asked the guy if he could knurl the top but he said he needed a special machine but he didn't have one. I cant really complain to much since he made me the part for free.
av8tor1977

thanks for the sand paper tip. I have to go to home depot later today and i'll pick up some yard stick and some drywall sanding mesh. I also have to go back to my local machine shop to get the crank shaft threaded.

It looks like the servos get here Thursday but I still have to buy 2mm coroplast.


-Samhttp://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/images/smilies/cool.png

Sounds like you are well on your way. Keep us posted and good luck with the rest of your project.

AV8TOR

I got a bit more done on the fuselage. I glued in the gutter pipe fuselage frame and glued in the yard stick on both sides and the tail. I had to go to a dollar general to pick up some goop to glue the rudder to the fuselage but I ran out of time to actually glue it in so I'll do that tomorrow. I also have to get the homelite crank shaft removed so does anyone have any tips on how to do that.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2112898http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2112899http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2112900http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2112901

thanks
-Sam:cool:

He should be able to cut and thread it by only taking off the magneto flywheel and not disassembling the entire engine, which is what I highly recommend. Be sure it gets cut far enough beyond the magneto to have plenty of threads (but not too many) to engage your new prop hub securely.

(A good way to keep the engine from turning over while you are threading the crankshaft is to put the piston near the bottom of its stroke, and then insert soft cotton rope in through the spark plug hole. Then when the piston goes up, it hits and compresses the rope and the crank stops turning, allowing you to thread the shaft.)

AV8TOR

Thanks for the tip. I'll go to the machine shop and talk to the guy who made me the hub. I sent an email to someone else who works at the shop but doess'nt use any of the machines and he was the one who said i needed to remove the shaft.

-sam:cool:

Be sure to securely tape shut any and all openings into the engine while he is working on cutting and threading the shaft so no trash gets into the engine.

If they absolutely insist on the engine being taken apart, (which they shouldn't), let me know and I'll send you some tips on disassembly and re-assembly of the engine. There are pitfalls and possible problem areas for a "newbie" when doing this....

As a hint for you in general, a lot of times people prefer a phone call to an e-mail, and it's certainly faster. Keeping up with ones e-mail can be a chore, and a lot of people are getting away from e-mail, and/or neglecting keeping up with it.

AV8TOR

good point on taping any openings like the carb and muffler holes. I had to email the guy a photo since he was using the shops land line phone. Hopefully I'll be able to go tomorrow morning and get the shaft cut and re threaded. To bad I don't have a die or else I could have done it my self.

-Sam:cool:

That shaft is rather hard and threading it can be difficult for a "first timer". Best that the machinist does it. Take your new prop hub with you when you go. Also, when you talk to him again, explain that the crankshaft is a "cantilevered" type and there is no way to chuck it in the lathe for threading. It has to be done with a threading die. That might convince him that the engine does not need to be disassembled.

Additional note: I have found studs for use in the prop hub to mount the propeller at Lowes, Home Depot, and Ace Hardware stores. Take your propeller and prop hub with you to make sure you get a stud with the correct size and threads, and long enough for a prop, large flat washer, and nut.

AV8TOR

You also need to prepare yourself for starting the engine. Homelites with a magneto instead of electronic ignition are quite difficult to hand start. And a standard glow engine starter doesn't have enough power to turn them over. The cheapest/easiest route is to buy a starter cone and insert, and install a long 5/16" bolt in it with a nut. You can then chuck that bolt into a good battery powered electric hand drill and easily start the engine.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL400&P=7

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXL404&P=7

AV8TOR

There is a Video on You Tube called "Pouland Prop Adapter" that shows how to machine one.
Larry Kopecky
Conyers Georgia

This it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqlexLHi3dE

Next time I go to a hobby shop i'll pick up the starter cone and insert and use a makita drill. Also what do you mean by "prepare yourself for starting the engine". Getting comfortable flipping the prop quickly and being able to quickly move my hand( or the chicken stick) away from the prop. I called the machine shop but no one picked up so I'll just call them in the morning to see if I could go. I think in the afternoon they leave the shop because both times I called after 6pm no one answers but when I call before 10am someone always picks up. I got the rudder glued in but the glue is still wet but it should be dry by tomorrow morning and it looks like the servos arrive tomorrow. Lots of progress being made.

-Sam:cool:


http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2112989

Having an engine I could not start with my Sullivan 12 volt starter, I made an adapter for my 18 volt portable drill this way. I bought an insert from my LHS. I took a hole saw the size that the insert would fit in snugly. I used the mandrel that came with the set of hole saws that has a key to keep the saw from turning. I removed the pilot drill by loosening the set screw. At first I used the hole saw with the teeth still on to prove the concept. After it worked so well, I ground the teeth off. Works great!!! I have also used it in a 3/8 inch corded drill, since we have 110vac in our pits. It has started 35cc and up gassers. I got the hole saw set from Harbor Freight on sale really cheap.

Sincerely, Richard

Great tip. Care to share some pics?

Interesting idea, but the real starter cone only costs 7 bucks. If you attach a bolt to it with a nut and two star washers and tighten it good, it won't slip. Actually, I've done it without the star washers and it didn't slip.

By "prepare yourself for starting the engine", I only meant round up the stuff to do so. But once again the warning though, it will cut your fingers right off if you're not careful. Always have someone else helping when you start the engine to hold the plane and assist.

AV8TOR

Oh ok. I still need to get a gas pump since mine is only for glow(it's the cheap hobbico fuel pump). I dropped off my motor at my local machine shop since the guy who works there wasn't there but it should be ready by tomorrow morning. I also have to get the 2mm coro for the wings.

-Sam:cool:

I am happy your approach works for you and likely will for anyone using it. I had tried a similar approach, but even with a geared chuck on my drill motor, I could not tighten it down enough to keep the bolt from slipping in the chuck.

Several considerations drove my use of the hole saw and mandrel. One was that I had all the material at hand, since I used the insert from the Sullivan starter, and I already had the hole saw set. But, most important to me was that the shaft for the hole saw mandrel had flats on it for the drill motor chuck to tighten down on to keep it from slipping; and that the nut securing the hole saw to the mandrel, in combination with the hole saw being keyed to the mandrel, made the hole saw to mandrel combination slip-proof.

And so, it is what works for me; other approaches will work as well for many people. Good luck with them.

Sincerely, Richard

All good points. I didn't mean to offend nor belittle your idea. It is a good one.

Sierra Bravo: Since you are getting close, I'll mention the starting procedure. First close the choke tightly and open the throttle fully, and make absolutely sure the ignition is off. (In your case, with the magneto, that means that the magneto grounding wire will be NOT connected when it is "ON" to start. You connect the magneto wire to ground to kill the engine.) Then hand flip the engine while watching the fuel line. You should see the fuel advance with each flip of the prop. When the fuel reaches the carb, give it two or three more flips, then stop. If you don't see fuel being pulled up to the engine, you either have an air leak in your fuel system, or something wrong with the carb. Anyway, then turn the ignition on, close the choke firmly shut, open throttle to about 1/2, and give it a spin with the starter. As soon as the engine starts for a moment, stop spinning it. Then retard the throttle to just above idle, open the choke, and spin it again until it starts. Then, once the engine warms fully up, you can start tuning it. You tune for highest rpm on the high speed needle, then richen it about a screwdriver blades width, and tune the low speed needle for best idle and transition to full throttle. One needle affects the other, so you may have to go back and forth on the needles to get it dialed in. Start with both needles about 1 1/2 to 1 3/4 turns out from lightly seated.)

AV8TOR

No problem, no offence taken. I am used to having to qualify my projects with my wife.:o All your help is very much appreciated. I have added your startup tips to my files also. Thanks.

Sincerely, Richard

thanks for the start up tips av8tor.

I got the servos installed and hooked up and here is what the(for the most part) finished tail section of the fuselage looks like.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2113133http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2113134http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/atta...mentid=2113135

I'm going to buy some white electrical tape to made the edges of the plane look cleaner since right now they aren't very nice. Hopefully tomorrow i'll be able to install the motor

-Sam:cool:

Well, on an engine with electronic ignition, if the engine is accessible I have another preferred starting technique. Once you have fuel to the carb, open the throttle and then hold your thumb tightly over the carb while turning the engine over by hand. When you feel your thumb (or finger) get wet, stop. Then turn the ignition on, set the throttle just above idle, and give it a hard flip. Doing it this way they will usually start on the first or second flip, and surprise the hell out of everyone at your field. This will also work with some magneto engines, but a lot of magneto engines are better started with an electric starter, the Homelites being among them.

Sierra: Nice progress on the plane! I also see a good old "Ugly Stik" in the background. Do you fly it? I have a Giant Ugly Stik with a 50cc twin cylinder gas engine on it and I love it!

AV8TOR