RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

If you take this glow fuel out of the picture you will end up with 3.5 dollars per gallon (plus oil). That's where I'm going;)

I just read about Nelson's Intelligent Glow Driver. It suposed to keep the glow element at the same temperature. I'm going to get one for my experiment. Anyone has input about that?

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZvcB...elated&search=

Is this "SmartPlug" running the engine on pure Avgas? Seems the power to the plug is removed after startup. Check out the Honda genset running on jet fuel.

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Where can I buy these? I'll take 3.

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Looks like you can't buy them at the moment:
http://www.smartplugs.com/

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Re "Smart Plug", http://deq.mt.gov/CleanSnowmobile/so...ifications.asp

Selected Links
To learn more about catalytic converters, see:

William H. Haverdink, Catalytic Converter, Discovery Channel School, original content provided by World Book Online:

A promising technology that would improve two-stroke engine efficiency and reduce emissions is the Smart Plug, which, in effect, transforms a catalytic converter into the equivalent of a spark plug. The Smart Plug is a hollow cylinder with a precious-metal "catalyst" on a ceramic rod running down the middle, and a nearly-sealed bottom end, where a small amount of fuel-air mixture can enter from the area of the combustion chamber of the engine.
The catalyst has a tiny wire inside, allowing it to be pre-heated. When the catalyst is sufficiently heated and the engine's fuel-air mix is pumped in, courtesy of the starter motor, the catalyst sets fire to the small amount of charge inside its body, and the flaming charge then blasts out the holes, into the combustion chamber, and the piston goes down.

Selected Links
An explanation of the Smart Plug can be found on line at the Montana State University Tech Link Center website: Catalytic Ignition Replaces Spark Plugs.

Read a story about the Smart Plug titled A clean machine? Solution to snowmobile pollution may be on park's horizon, in the Jan. 9, 2000, issue of the Bozeman Daily Chronicle.

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Design News; May 22, 1995 Goto Design News Website

Catalytic Ignition

Replaces Spark Plugs

Design varies timing with constant ignition source, improves combustion, mileage, and emissions

Mark A. Gottsthalk, Western Technical Editor

SMARTPLUG AUTO-TIMED CATALYTIC IGNITION

San Diego, CA-Ever wonder what would happen if your car's catalytic converter was pulled from the tailpipe and placed in the engine'?

Mark Cherry has. The thought, in fact, inspired him to develop and patent what he calls the Smartplug, a device that exploits a technology called Auto-timed Catalytic Ignition, or ACI. A replacement for the ubiquitous spark plug, it potentially offers more thorough combustion. increased mileage, extra-lean burn capability, and improved emissions.
If all goes well, Cherry, president of Automotive Resources, hopes ACI will enable engines to meet 1999 automobile-emissions standards without any exhaust after-treatment.
Externally, SMARTPLUGs look much like conventional spark plugs. They thread into the cylinder head and connect to an ignition system via wires protruding from their tops. But the similarities end there.
Inside each unit lies a ceramic rod coated with a catalyst-typically platinum, but sometimes rhodium, palladium, or ceria. The rod threads into the SMARTPLUG's crown and lies centered within a hollow cylindrical chamber that extends the length of the body. At the tip of the SMARTPLUG, a set of flame nozzles exhaust the chamber to the engine cylinder.
When a user starts the engine. a constant dc power source supplies voltage to each SMARTPLUG, heating the catalyst to operating temperature. It's the heated catalyst-not simply thermal energy-that causes combustion of the fuel/air mixture. Once the engine is running, the voltage may be cut or reduced, because combustive heat usually can sustain catalytic ignition.
A combustion cycle occurs in two distinct steps. First. the catalyst lights the small volume of mixture that collects inside the SMARTPLUG's chamber. This event leads to the second step. during which jets of burning gas shoot from the flame nozzles to the periphery of the cylinder and ignite the main charge. 'Essentially we have a diesel cycle occur ring inside the pre-chamber and an Otto cycle via flame ignition in the cylinder," says Cherry.
The difficulty with such a process involves providing for variable ignition timing. Because combustion occurs spontaneously, Cherry had to develop a way to control the mixture's progress to the catalyst. To do so he designed the SMARTPLUG's chamber to retain combustion gases after firing-it essentially remains unscavenged. "This design shields the ignition source from the fresh mixture until we want ignition to take place," he says.
Static timing depends upon the ratio of chamber length to cylinder length. During the compression stroke, Cherry found that the boundary-layer interface between the un-burned mixture in the cylinder and the spent gases in the chamber moved in lock-step with the piston position. If, for example, the chamber is half the stroke length, the boundary moves at half the piston speed. "We can calculate the precise moment that the mixture will touch the catalyst," he explains. "This function stays constant throughout the load and speed range of the engine." By varying the length of both the chamber and the catalyst, he's varied static timing from 170 degrees to 15 degrees BTDC.
By contrast, dynamic timing depends on the density of the fuel/air charge. As the mixture density (or engine load) increases, timing advances. This phenomenon is exactly the opposite of normal automobile ignition, but perfect for two-stroke boat engines that require a reverse timing curve. It also works well with constant-speed motors such as generators, drag-racers, or lawn mowers.
For automobile applications Cherry developed and patented a third version of the SMARTPLUG in which the mixture cools the catalyst. Thus an increased load (and denser mixture) retards timing. Not limited to small changes, this method allows for timing advances as great as 60 degrees.
Automotive Resources claims that their catalytic ignition's jet-flame improves combustion efficiency and increases mileage because of its ability to burn extra-lean mixtures. "The conventional limit is around 22:1," Cherry claims, "but we've run at 28:1, and our Iloly Grail is A2; twice as much air as fuel to burn."
Employing neither spark plugs nor magnetos, the system emits zero EMI, a potential boon of designers of light aircraft. It also means no electrical energy is wasted on a conventional ignition system.
Emission improvements are tougher to explain. though quite dramatic to demonstrate. Drops in NO, of 90% have been recorded with no loss in performance. Cherry theorizes that conventional ignition ionizes nitrogen whereas catalytic ignition does not. When you keep combustion temperatures low with a lean charge, nitrogen compounds won't form. It's also possible that catalytic ignition induces some of the water/gas shift-phase reaction that occurs in a catalytic converter. Whatever the mechanism. he believes Auto-timed Catalytic Ignition will enable more fuel-efficient. higher-power. cleaner engines with little or no exhaust gas processing.

Other Applications:
* Automobiles
* Outboard motors
* Industrial generators
* Lawn mowers





Phone: 208.265.2723
Email: [email protected]
SmartPlug is protected by US and International Patents.
Copyright © 1999-2007. SmartPlugs® All Rights Reserved.

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

I find it incredible that this radical concept has not emerged as commonplace with todays quest for "clean burn' and higher fuel efficiency! Instead, the government is prodded to waste its' revenues building ethanol distilleries. A bunch of you have been trying to find an alternative to the $15/gallon glow fuel, unaware of this technology. This would be a penny stock worth investing? I would think so. S

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

http://ipp.nasa.gov/innovation/Innov...mignition.html

Small Business/SBIR
Ignition System
Improves Performance
Initial tests of a new Catalytic Ignition (CI) system on a standard general aviation engine have successfully demonstrated the system’s ability to improve engine performance while operating on multiple fuels, including Avgas, 87UL and Jet-A, without the use of magnetos.

The CI technology was originally developed by Automotive Resources, Inc. of San Diego, before being transferred to AquaLytic Technologies, Inc. (ATI) of Sandpoint, Idaho, and improved upon under a Glenn Research Center (GRC) Phase I SBIR contract for the General Aviation Propulsion (GAP) program.

Performance improvements include increased power, reduced noise and vibration, increased lean limits, and the ability to maintain engine power without any electrical power. The CI technology, referred to as the "SmartPlug," utilizes a heated catalyst mounted inside a small precombustion chamber, with the fixed position of the catalyst determining the engine ignition timing at all rpm. An integral DC heater brings the catalyst to operational temperature for initial operation, but no electrical power is required to sustain combustion during normal operation on unleaded fuels.

Flame jets from the precombustion chamber are injected into the cylinder, producing a very smooth and thorough combustion process. Roughly the same size as a sparkplug, the SmartPlug merely replaces sparkplugs in standard low-compression engines, while timing and high voltage system components are eliminated.

The CI system was tested on a reconditioned 0-200 Continental engine. Concurrent development efforts for the CI system include small, two-stroke multi-fuel (diesel included) engines for military applications, and operation of standard internal combustion engines on aqueous alcohols.

Multiple commercial applications from ATI’s continued development of the CI technology include general aviation, where the technology could eventually contribute to improved safety and reduced environmental emissions. Using the CI system, general aviation aircraft could operate flawlessly even with contaminated or improperly substituted fuels, and without dependence on magnetos. The target is eventual compliance with FAR Part 33.37 for Ignition Systems, with demonstration of "an ignition system of equivalent in-flight reliability."

For the general aviation engine tests, static testing of a reconditioned 0-200 Continental engine was conducted using Avgas (100LL) and 87UL fuels, producing baseline results of 2400 rpm at wide-open-throttle (WOT). Sparkplugs and magnetos were removed and replaced by CI igniters and retested. With just one igniter per cylinder, CI performance matched spark-magneto performance on 100LL and 87UL. When the CI configured engine was switched to Jet-A fuel (stock, carbureted), the engine rpm at WOT increased to 2475 rpm, with no visible exhaust emissions (spark-magneto configuration could not be tested with Jet-A). Noise level at five feet was reduced by six dB when switched from spark-magneto to CI igniters on 87UL, with a significant reduction in engine vibration as well. Cylinder head, barrel and exhaust gas temperatures for the CI equipped engine were consistent with spark-magneto norms.

While continued DC heater power was required for operation on 100LL, due to catalyst poisoning, all electrical power could be shut off without significantly impacting engine performance on 87UL or Jet-A fuels a major safety advantage with the next generation of unleaded aviation fuels.

The company’s major partner for CI technology applications is 2 Stroke International (2si, Beaufort, South Carolina), a developer and manufacturer of commercial and military two-stroke engines.

Previous tests have demonstrated its ability to allow standard two stroke gasoline engines to operate on diesel fuel with no visible exhaust emissions, and tests using aqueous alcohol (140 proof) in a four-stroke gasoline engine demonstrated a 20% increase in horsepower with major reductions in NOx (97%), CO (94%) and HC (64%), with a 50% increase in thermal efficiency.

ATI is being assisted by MSU TechLink, a technology transfer and commercialization center in Bozeman, Montana working with NASA, the Department of Defense, and additional commercial firms, for technology development and new applications. Additional assistance has been provided by the Idaho SBDC in Boise.


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For more information, contact Ray Friesenhahn at MSU Techlink, phone 406/994-7726, e-mail [email protected], or Bill Burnett at AquaLytic Technologies, Inc., phone 208/265-2723, e-mail [email protected]

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RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

http://www.ultralightnews.ca/sunfun02/smart_plugs.htm

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Yeah, I've been wanting to try these for quite some time but they're not selling them. Watch out for the price when they do.... as I remember they were quite costly!!

AV8TOR

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

I'm thinking along the lines of a "homebrewed" solution, maybe multiple glow plugs mounted on a screw in pre-combustion chamber of sorts. The military is probably testing these things now, since they desire the one fuel (JP) concept. I also like the "smart" glow driver concept submitted earlier. I beleive the guy is using off the shelf hardware here, since the grants are relatively low figures...$70,000 etc.
Problem is, whose shelf did it come off of? Lots of work has been done in related combustion/ignitor fields.....tanks, fighters etc. The common (and fragile) dryer igniter is ceramic, is it also platinum?

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Some years ago I've brought the subject of the SMART PLUG up in this tread, everybody just like you did show interest and we thought that we had found a response to our prayers!!!! but unfortunatelly they don't sell or have these glow plugs available to the public, I've also read somewhere in this tread tha a single plug would cost as much as $100.00 because of all the precious metal used for the catalityc efect desired, but we are still hopeing that something like this technology will come around and be available to us and help us in our quest to a better and more economical source of energy.
Thanks for sharing all of your researched info and keep it going, thats what makes us inventive and solutions finders.
Bill Pomplun A.K.A. Aero Nut.

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

I thought I'd read the whole thread, sorry. I wonder if the common 1/8" diam. platinum/ceramic beads, common in some catalytic converters, could play a role here. I envision a stack of these pellets (possibly even ONE pellet?) caged in the precombustion chamber with a common glow plug threaded in at the top or the side.

Taking the glow adapter concept a bit further, (A) gutting the sparkplug; (B)
fabricating the small annular cage, with stack of 1/8'' pellots up the center annulus, with the glow plug on the side. (C) fabricating the
cage withe the beads in the outer annulus, and the glow plug on top. (probably wouldn't work LOL)

Seems the igniter on the Thunder Tiger engine was quite small, smaller than those on the O-200 mounted in the Doctors' Cub. Wonder what the good doctor thinks of these plugs now, and if he is still using them?

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

would those be called annulus beads?

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

been trying to sort out all the off the main subject stuff to find an answer to my project but not having any real luck. I want to replace the carb on my old S 2000 super tigre with a walbro carg. I want to leave the glow plug as is and find a fuel mixture that will run that set up. Also I have to assume that I will not have to pressurize the tank as walbro has a pump. Any feed back from you old/young pros out there would be greatly appreciated.

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Hi,

It's no problem to do so, except that if you are going to run anything but Gas, or our Gas/Glow fuel mix, the carb may not flow enough fuel. There is one number Walbro carb that will flow enough regular glow or methanol/oil without modifications, but I don't know the number. RCIGN1 knows the number if you contact him.

If you don't want to make your own adapter, KenLambert is working on converting the Super Tiger 2300 to gas, and might sell you a carb adapter.

Just remember, whatever fuel mix you decide to run, the engine will need the same amount of oil as originally specified unless it has been modified with roller bearings on the rod. The Gas/Glow mix we use does not have enough oil for an unmodified Super Tiger.

With a Walbro or Zama carb, you will not need muffler pressure and your tank position will be non-critical as the carbs have a built in pump. I have had problems with Zama carbs "not liking" alcohol, so be careful about that...

AV8TOR

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Aav8tor1977: Very good data you just added . I took apart a couple of engines for parts today. I wanted the crankshafts for mandrels for turing parts on my Lathe. I noticed it should not be to hard to press a craknpin out for use in a bigger Supertiger size of engine. There are lots of crankpins out there for free, with inexpensive rod bearings for converting a engine that will then run on like 40-1 or about any ratio you may want to try. What do you think. Capt,n

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

If you read the pryor page where I ran the MAGNUM 1.8 with gas/glow @ 10 % oil, you'll find out that running with 10% oil mix instead of 3% will run very good but we still need a walbro carb because the original glow fuel carb is very sensitive to adjustment.
I've read somewhere of a glow fuel manufacturer makes a special fuel for big supertigre engines that contains only 6 or 10% oil and based on that information I went ahead and made my fuel mix @ 10% oil.

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

a little more info (trickle) on the mysterious 'smart plug'
http://www.smartplugs.com/news/aeronews0402.htm

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

http://www.thefuelman.com/smartplugs.html

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

http://www.diy-efi.org/pipermail/diy...ly/001092.html This is some usernet dialogue I bumped into, Mr. Cherry explaining some things to a "naysayer". Mr. Fuelman is up the road a 100 or so miles, I plan on asking him about the wide selection of Smartplugs on his webpage. Not that I really want to buy a sample at this juncture, but am interested in weeding out the truth from the BS.

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

I would be willing to buy one and try it in my lawn mower.... seriously
If you find out that you can purchase one, please post ok?

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Nelson glow is on order. But to get any idea what temperature I shoud keep, I did some measurments.

First I measured the resistance of the glow plus (OS F long) at different temperatures. Unfortunately the IR thermometr I had (from Harbor Feeight) didn't see the glow element properly. So I tried to get the temperatuire based on the color of the glow. Then I realized, that I don't need to know the temperature as long as I know what is the resistance corresponding to the full powered plug (glowing orange).

Because the resistance of the glow plug is minimal I used piece of steel wire as a regulated resistor connected in series. This way I regulated the voltage on the glow plug and reading the current I I used it to calculate the resistance. See below of teh graph of the resistance versus voltage, and it is quite linear, so the temperature is linear to the voltage applied.

At the full power (1.1V) the glow element is orange and the calculated resistance is about 0.37 ohm. Now I run my engne with the glow plug regulated through the same wire. I measured the volatage and current on the glow element calculating the resistance, that should directly indicate the temperature. See pictures of my setup below.

I coludnt't get exact result as the engine was not running well - I didn't tune it well after running gas-glow fuel the last time. I did rough adjustments to the carb so I got reliable idle around 2000 rpm and full power at 7200rpm - the same results I got the first time with megneto. I don't need to add that I'm running gas-oil (40:1) only - NO METHANOL. The engine was not running smooth - it still needs more fine tunning.

Now I was so surprised, when applying normal power to the glow plug (1.1V) when engine was idling (2000rpm) I read current 2.2A. That gives over 0.5 ohm that translates to over 1.3 times higher temperature of the orange glow. It is when engine was idling. I didn't get all data (what current the glow plug will get the temperature corresponding to the orange glow (0.37 ohm) and if it still runs smooth) because I tried to tune the engine for smooth run. However I got the measurment at half throttle when the engine was still running without noticable dropping of rpm. It was 1.8A at 0.88V what reads 0.49 ohm but I believe after tunning the engine I will be able to get it running at the lower temperature.

I will try to do it next weekend, but I will go to our flying field - backyard is not a good place to run weed-whacker engine without the muffler;)

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

Rysium,
Have you considered/tried adding a pot in system and varing driver at idle?
i was going to do this but you seem a llittle more set up for it than I am yet.
Just curious of how important the amount of glow heat is and just how "adjustable" it could be from a plug?

RE: gas fuel with glo plug no ignition
 

This is exactly the setup I have. Steel wire attached to the engine cylinder = pot. The clamp on the wire (not shown on the picture) is the slider. I can regulate the current on the glow plug from 1.9A to 3.2A (for the engine startup). However it needs about 3A to start. After that I can drop the current because burning gasoline adds the heat to the glow plug. I will know much more when I tune up the engine, so I can vary the temperature and see how does it affect the performance.