Conversion Mufflers
 

I'm new to conversions and wanted to start a new thread for mufflers. There seems to be a good supply of ignition systems but as of yet I haven't seen a muffler supplier. I know there are tons of conversions out there and wondered if someone has capitalized on the muffler area for larger engines. I am personally looking for mufflers for a Poulan 60 (Gillaroni cylinder) and Homelite 300, both are saw engines. It would be nice to throw the stamped steel monsters out for something smaller and lighter. Or does everyone just make their own.
Tim

Conversion Mufflers
 

There is a company, (Abell, I think) that has a stock line of mufflers. If you give him dimensions or a tracing of your exhaust, he will finish machine one to fit your big engine. The prices are reasonable.

Ask rcign1 ?

Good luck,

Jim

Conversion Mufflers
 

B&B or bennet will custom make one at no extra charge the last one I bought was 35.00 shipped to my door.

Darin

Conversion Mufflers
 

Ive been making up some mufflers for myself and some friends. We have been trying to get away from the "diverter" type of muffler and go to a seperate header and a large volume muffler for less noise without a loss of performance. I have a Poulan 46 conversion I plan on trying some things with. When I get some RPM/DB readings Ill be sure to post it.
Adam

Abell WHO????????
 

I've been talking to the Abell answering machine for about 2 months. Not a single returned phone call from them. I've called them about 6 times in the past 8 weeks. I've left messages upon messages. Zip- Nadda- nothing.

Conversion Mufflers
 

Tell me about it. I've been having a tough time finding good mufflers for conversion engines. B&B and Abell are about the only sure bet, but they are really more exhaust diverters than real mufflers. Most of the aftermarket muffler shops don't much care to cater to our needs. We are either viewed as too cheap to pay for good stuff or too small volume to justify the tooling cost. As much as I hate to admit it, there are probably a lot of truth to both.

The bright side is that engine conversion seems to be a fast growing "sport". Some of us actually enjoy it more than flying planes with them - hey, you know what I'm talking about.;) So may be in time, things will start to get better.

mousse cans
 

mousse cans on my glo engines make good power but they don't seem to hold up to the vibes and heat of the big gassers. i love the big canisters sold for gas engines but since i destroy (crash) planes and engines at an alarming rate i cant see myself paying those high prices. i have some alternatives to the wimpy mousse cans that i'm going to try some day.
the big red can is from a dissposable fire extinguisher, measures 9"x3" , weighs 5 oz. is heavy duty alum and has the same 1" neck as the mousse cans.
the other can is also heavy alum has a lrger neck and came from an automotive glass repair shop, the black glass primer from sika.

Conversion Mufflers
 

Dont give up. Here is a pic of a project I just finished for a friend of mine. This isnt a conversion but it shows what a couple of stubborn modelers can accomplish when they wont settle for what is available. He designed the mufflers and I welded them up and fabricated the headers.

I dont know if there is a market/demand for the conversion enthusiast but I have a demand for a Poulan system and possibly a Ryobi setup that I will be starting on next.

So if anyone has any Ideas for some posible configurations and would like to share them please do. Ive considered a firewall mounted muffler with a header running to it or even a more conventional header/cannister setup.
Adam

Conversion Mufflers
 

Being a tool freak, I look for every excuse to buy more tools. Heck, I just bought an $800 pressure washer to clean mildew off my soffits. Still, I can't bring myself to invest in a good MIG or TIG welder just to do RC mufflers. :)

Aneat, my vote goes to a "wrap-around" style muffler for the Poulan 46cc or any of the Kioritz (Echo) engines. I also like the idea of a separate header and firewall mounted canister muffler. The "in-fuse" canister setup is great if you got the room for it, but not every fuselage lend itself well to that kind of modification.

Conversion Mufflers
 

I use the inner piece of Quadra or US Engines muffler and make a 3/32 aluminum plate to go over the back of it. Cut the pipe or pipes out of the back piece, cut holes and braze or weld pipes to the front piece. No power loss and just as quiet. Now it will fit flush to the firewall which was always a pain in the butt. Will fit other engines as it has a small inlet hole to be cut bigger. Wish I could figure out how to make pictures come on.

Conversion Mufflers
 

Volfy; I had a larger Tig welder years ago and have always been into welding as a hobby. I ended up selling it and was fine for a few years until I had a bad experience getting an aluminum swingarm welded at a local shop. Poor quality work and way overcharged. :angry: So I bought one of the new smaller Lincoln square wave Tig setups and love it. I do a lot of other stuff with it and have just began to get into what I may be able to do for RC. Ive been flying smaller stuff but all the possibilities with this conversion stuff may get me into bigger planes :stupid: After looking at mufflers I thought I could do something similar.
Adam

Conversion Mufflers
 

Here is another with some potential. These are from water filter cannisters where I work. Every couple of months the change them and one is on every drinking fountain, ice maker, coffe machines etc. They are aluminum, 3" dia and approx 14" long with one end closed and ~.050 thick
The bad part is they have some kind of plastic lining that can be a pain to get out :mad:

Aluminum tubing this size isnt to expensive but every little bit helps.

If someone has access to some type of CNC machining getting the flanges or any other ends/fittings made would be nice. I can bend the tubing and weld everything and I even have a lathe/mill setup, but making the flanges is time consuming for me because everything is done manually.
Adam

Conversion Mufflers
 

Adam, do you think a TIG is much better for welding aluminum? Lincoln has a MIG that supposedly can do aluminum, but perhaps not quite as intricate as what you can do with a TIG? Sooner or later I'll find enough reasons to get a welder.

Conversion Mufflers
 

I like the Tig better for several reasons. I originally bought it to weld chrome molly steel and it does a much nicer/cleaner weld for that. Ive seen some nice mig welds on aluminum but im not sure how it would do on the thinner stuff. Im pretty sure you need a seperate cable for doing aluminum with mig because the wire tends to gall up feeding thru.
Another thing when welding with the Tig there is no smoke, sparks or splatter. I never was comfortable welding in a shop with balsa wood and saw dust in the cracks and corners with sparks flying everywhere. And if you have ever mig welded you know the sparks and splatter really flies.
Its nice even in the winter I can go in the shop and weld for a while and there is no smoke to clear out.
Adam

Conversion Mufflers
 

Adam, I know what you mean. To do many RC related metalworks, you almost always need a good welder and a milling machine.

As for aluminum tubing stock, I've bought from http://www.onlinemetals.com/ before and their prices are not too unreasonable.

headers
 

thinking of making my own muffler for a poulan 46. how did you make the header. i have a few ideas but would like to know what others have tried.. how much volume do you need in the canister to maximize output also? any suggestions?? thanks :D

Conversion Mufflers
 

Volfy,

I have a MIG welder that works very well for thin steel but I can't get near as nice of welds with aluminum. I bought the Argon gas, aluminum sheath for the gun, different tips, and aluminum wire. The MIG leaves a lot of splatter and will suffice for about 3/32" or thicker but for thinner stuff go with a TIG. I cut out the parts and have my friend TIG weld them and they turn out beautiful.

I have been contemplating buying a TIG welder and plasma cutter for my hobby interests. I have wanted to build mufflers and motor mounts for other modelers for years and would not be in it for the profit so much as the enjoyment of fabricating unique objects. If there is enough interest from other modelers, I will buy them and post a notice here.

Doug

"home-made" mufflers
 

I buy 3/4" alum. tubing from Lowe's for the outlet tubes, I use a pc. of 1-1/2" x 1-1/2" alum. square that you can buy at any glass place that installs "store front" type windows/doors, I make a 1/4" thick or whatever thickness needed to clear the side of the engine cooling fins, and use thickwall alum. ferrells inside to keep the square tubing from collapsing(?) ; cap off the end of the sq. tubing and you're done......works for me........

Conversion Mufflers
 

Duhawk; Look at another thread I started for the Poulan 46. Ive got some info on there about a header/muffler combo.

Doug; Ive done the same with my Tig. I bought it for my own needs and enjoyment and try to help out others when I can. I can usually barter or trade with other modelers and we can usually work out a deal without any money changing hands.

Of course money works too :D
Adam

header
 

i saw that earlier.. i have a friend with a welder.. what type im not sure but thats what he does for a living so im sure if i design something he can weld it for me.. is there any certain volume needed for the canister? what works best? also what did you do to match the start of the header to the engine.(where it screws in) does the poulan have a round exhaust port? and one final question what type of performance would you get with a 46 poulan on say a 15-16 pound sport plane? looking for good vertical.. thanks :D

Conversion Mufflers
 

I made a flange for my header out of 1/4" aluminum. The Poulan has a sort of D shaped exaust port so it is kind of a pain to mill out.
As for muffler volume Im not sure what would be ideal. There has to be a compromise somewhere. I have been trying to go off the size of what is commercially available for a similar engine size. I think anywhere around 2 1/2" to 3" dia and 10" to 12" long should be close.
I plan on trying some different baffle configurations and even a cannister with no baffles and see how it goes.
Adam

baffles
 

how do you make the baffles inside? maybe its a stupid question but have to ask if im gonna try one on my own..

Conversion Mufflers
 

Thanks Doug. If I do get a TIG welder, it would be strictly non-profit too. In fact, I would have to make a boat load of mufflers and motor mounts just to break even. :) What it'd be good for is making stuff that are not commercially available - like accessories for these conversion engines.

Re: baffles
 

Ive got the pieces for a muffler like the one I have on my Poulan.
When I get home Ill get a pic and post it. There are probably a lot of different ways it can be done.

The simplest explanation Ive heard is. "There are 2 things flowing thru a muffler, sound and gas. The trick is to attenuate the sound as much as possible without restricting the flow of gas"

Adam

Muffler Pieces
 

Here are most of the parts for the muffler on my Poulan at the time. They are layed out pretty much like they go together. Exaust goes in thru the pipe from the right and into the chamber to the left and out of the holes in the tube. After that it goes thru the drilled round piece in the center. From there it goes into the outlet tube thru the holes drilled into it and out.

Pretty simple eh :rolleyes:

Adam

baffles
 

looks fairly simple.. shouldnt take much to do
thanks for the pics :D

Re: Muffler Pieces
 

What are you looking for in CNC flanges? Give me some details and I will see if I can support you.

Al

Poulan 46 Exaust Flange
 

Hi Al; Here is a scan of the Poulan 46 gasket for the header. I used 1/4 thick 6061. The holes are .250 dia. The center to center on the holes is 1.450. The width of the port is 1.000 and the height is .650, of course the odd shape :rolleyes:
If you could crank out some flanges I could make you up a header or muffler or???
Thanks; Adam

Re: Poulan 46 Exaust Flange
 

Hi Adam,

Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I was trying to wait and see when I can schedule my next trip out to my buddies shop. I will make a few of these manually and see how they turn out and let you know.

Any questions just contact me offline.
Al

Conversion Mufflers
 

I make mufflers for all kinds of conversion engines

Welding mufflers
 

For those of us who don't, and never will, have access to any kind of welder, has anyone tried brass and silver solder or braze?

Re: Welding mufflers
 

Ive seen some very nice mufflers made from brass or copper and brazed together. They have a tendency to get a little heavy if your not careful but it has been done.

For what its worth Ive done a bit of custom work; aluminum welding for other modelers and Im always willing to if someone has something they need made up. I work pretty cheap and Ive done work for modeling supplies.
There are just some combinations that nothing is available for and they are to odd for some manufacture to tool up to make one or two.

If anyone runs into a dead in like that dont hesitate to contact me and we may be able to get something done.

Adam

Conversion Mufflers
 

Ken Lambert made this one for my Poulan 60 yesterday. Works great! Tig welded, a little more volume than the Abell or B&B mufflers to let the engine breathe a little better.

nice muffler
 

nice job.. wish i had a tig welder to give it a try.. doesnt look too hard..

:cool:

Conversion Mufflers
 

it's not hard if you know how the hardest part of it is parting with $2000. just to make a few mufflers for conversions,the welding itself just takes practice

Conversion Mufflers
 

I agree with Ken; The hard part is sucking it up and buying the welder :stupid: After that its practice , practice, practice...
Adam

Conversion Mufflers
 

What do you accomplished weldors think of the Invertec V160-T? I was at the Offshore Technology Conference last week and Lincoln Electric had a large display booth. I was drooling all over the Invertec V275-S even though I understand it's not primarily a TIG welder since it doesn't have high frequency start. They had a rack of 8 of them on display!

Realistic though, I'll probably end up with a MIG for a general-purpose welder, since I would like to do other types of welding more than just intricate aluminum TIG.

BTW, I was rereading my Finch welding manual last night, and it said TIG welding aluminum does not require a shielding gas. Is this true for MIG too?

Welders
 

Volfy; First you must have mis read something in the Finch book. Shield gas is a definite in any Tig process. I have that book, tell me what page that statement was on and Ill check it out.

The smaller Invertec welder only does DC so you cannot weld aluminum with it. For welding aluminum you need AC. Look at the 175 amp TIG welder that Lincoln sells, Miller and Hobart also sell similar machines and with a little shopping you can usually find one for less than $1500.00


If you can find a local Vocational school that offers a welding class take it. That should give you a chance to try all different kinds of welding processes before buying.
Adam

Conversion Mufflers
 

Volfy,

I'm going to buy a TIG this summer. I went to Sears and they sell a 175 amp Hobart for $1200. I then went to Norco (a welding supplier) and told them and a little pressure resulted in the manager saying he would sell me a Miller 175 amp TIG machine at $1226. Now I'm debating hand or foot temp control. You might be able to do the same thing. A little competition never hurt anyone.

Doug

Conversion Mufflers
 

Adam, I was surprised too. I'll flip through the Finch book tonight and tell you the page number. I think it was in the TIG section. I hear you about the welding classes. When I looked into it back when I lived in Oklahoma City, the Community College near where I lived offered welding classes. The instructor I spoke to on the phone told me it wasn't for "hobbyists" like me. I wonder if schools around here are more accomodating.

Doug, those are good prices. The Lincoln square wave machines I was looking at start at around $1500.