Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

Hi everyone,

I'm working on a little 16cc Echo/Kioritz engine conversion for my first gas model project. Just thought I would let everyone know that these little guys have no taper on the crank where the mag goes on, and this will make it a lot easier to come up with a homemade prop adapter assuming you convert to battery ignition. Also, this site has an interesting kit to build an ignition:
www.jerry-howell.com/ignition. I think I just might try it out.

Another thing. I'm an ultralight airplane pilot as well. The ultralight parts suppliers offer lots of shielded ignition hardware such as a metal braided cover for plug wires, shielded plug attachments, etc. Try www.leadingedge-airfoils.com and www.800-airwolf.com, and also www.800-airstar.com.

I realize this little 16cc engine is going to be heavy/underpowered, but it was free and it's cute am I'm determined to try it. Any suggestions as to aerobatic planes it might fly, or specs for one? I'm thinking about adapting it to my own design 65" span Big Low Wing Stick that I presently fly with an old Fox .78. Might even convert it to a biplane later to help with the weight if I like this engine. I like normal aerobatics, but I'm not into the overpowered "3D" flying.... yet!

Thanks,
AV8TOR

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

Here is one that I converted a while back. I never got around to firing it up. You are correct on the prob adapter. It was very simple to do.

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

Thanks for the pic. What were you intending to use yours on?

Also, I forgot to mention another tip. I see some question about oils to use in these threads. It is pretty much universally agreed in the ultralight world that Pennzoil For Air Cooled Engines is the best choice. There are three types of Pennzoil for two strokes; you want the "air-cooled" type. Our ultralight engines run near full power for long periods, and have head temperatures from 275 to near 400 sometimes. This oil really works well. Rotax engines and Lockwood Aviation did a big study on oils, and this type of Pennzoil was the best for low carbon and wear.

AV8TOR

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

av8tor,

keep in mind that the original coil on your engine probably won't work with the ignition kit you mentioned. you would have to get the coil they offer along with the kit, would cost the same as just getting the ch circuit and useing your coil.

either way have fun!

dave

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

Yeah, this thought has crossed my mind. With the added benefit that it would be a hotter CD igntion instead of the Kettering style. Are you sure that my stock coil will work with the CH system?

I'm presently analyzing how this little engine would fly my 65 inch custom Big Low Wing Stick. My tach went bad, so I can't tach the old Fox .78 that I'm flying it with now, but on a fish scale it pulls about 4.5 lbs. static. If I can get the gasser to swing a 15-8 prop at 7000, it should roughly equal what I have now in performance I think. At least that is what my speed calculations and the thrust propellor charts say if I assume my Fox .78 is swinging it's 13-6 at about 10,000. That old Fox is a strong motor; starts in one flip almost every time, etc. But if I can get near the same performance for $2.00 a gallon instead of $18.00, that will be great! (It's actually even better than that 'cause it will run so much longer on gas.) I'm thinking I might have to hop up the little engine a bit to get there though. I don't think the weight will be too much of an issue, as this little engine is light once all stripped down, and the Stick presently totes a 35mm film camera around with no problem at all when I do aerial pictures.

Comments on all this are greatly appreciated!

Thanks!
AV8TOR

small engine
 

You can always install a glow plug using a adapter. It would be super lite...take off everything you don,t need. If you mix you own fuel it may not cost too much to run. May have more power too. Capt,n

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

Yes, I've thought of that, but I would really like to try gas for the cheaper, easier operation, less clean up... all that.

Thanks,

AV8TOR

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

av8tor,
almost any coil will work with cdi but the lower the inductance the better. kettering ign needs a large (lots of winds) primary winding and heavy iron core in order to build up and store the charge that it dumps through the secondary. all this is just a hinderance to cdi as it only uses the coil as a step-up transformer.

in the pic is a cut up echo cdi coil. in the middle is a tiny ferrite core and the bottom layer in the stacked windings is the primary which is only 27 turns. this thing only weighs only 12g! it wont do squat with a kettering ign but is ideal for cdi.

i think the echo and zenoah coils are the same and ch uses the oem coil on their zenoah conversions so i bet your coil is compatible with the ch circuit.

dave

ps-does your wife have a sister around 30 ? ;)

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

Hey, thanks a lot for the info. I'm going to get that CH kit.

My wife has 3 sisters, but I got the best one of the lot!! I feel like a lucky man every day!!

Take care,

AV8TOR

glow fuel mess????
 

I forgot to mention....if your engine has needle and ball BRG,s you do not need any more oil than a gas 2 cycle. Not any more of a cleanup!!!! Thanks Capt,n :)

gas or glow?
 

if you keep ign. and battery weigh at 10oz or less you won't come out any heavier than a set-up that uses glo fuel. for an engine this size you only need an 8oz tank capacity when running gas, for glo you would need at least 16oz if not more for the same run time. consider also that gas weighs quite a bit less per fluid oz. than methanol and you can see that the gas/ign. set-up might even weigh less than if running glo. there is power to gain when running glo but you would need to increase the compression to see any big differece.

initial cost is high for the ignition unit but you can easily swap it between engines buy only buying additional pickup sensors.

dave

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

Hi everyone,

I've decided to stick with gas with this little guy. I've ordered some APC props from Tower, along with a NiMh battery pack for the electronic ignition. Monday I'll be ordering the ignition from CH. I'll keep you all updated as this project unfolds. One note; I was able to bolt a prop directly to the engine without an adapter. (This crank has no taper.) The prop passes by the engine cylinder with about 3/4" clearance. Think this is too close for prop efficiency???? This setup will not be cowled, so except for the short time that the prop passes the engine cylinder it will be in free and clear air for it's full length. It would be great not to have to add the weight of a prop adapter/extension.

Thanks,

AV8TOR

little Guy
 

Sounds Good...keep us up to date on progress....Thanks Captinjohn :)

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

av8tor, the tip of the prop does most of the work so don't worry about the clearance thing. also these engines only have a single bearing support on the prop side so its best to keep the hub as short as possible so you won't get run-out problems. you do need some kind of drive washer though, just letting the prop seat on the step of the shaft sounds bad to me. do you have room for a washer of some kind?

dave

Baby Kioritz & Ignition tips...
 

Yes, I have washers on there. I'm using the original washer that was behind the mag, then two more 5/16 washers, the prop, then a washer and the nut. Works perfect! Less weight and expense... it's all good. (I'm going to make a collar for the crankshaft on the other side of the engine for the magnet for the ignition. That's cool too as it will be inside the little "bell housing" area and protected behind the engine.)

The big question, is if will this cute little guy have enough power. The plane presently has an old non Schneurle Fox .78 on it. I'm hoping for about the same power, though I'm thinking I may have to hop up the engine to get there.

Comments anyone?

Thanks!
AV8TOR