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- Engine Conversions (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/engine-conversions-92/)

- - Complete new CDI - website open (https://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/engine-conversions-92/9842658-complete-new-cdi-website-open.html)

gr8flyer55

01-06-2011 09:14 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Hi Rob...
For the French 2CV timer board, is there a substitute for the SKP15N60 IGBT transistor? Very difficult to buy just one here in the U.S.
Everywhere I look, minimum order is 500 pieces!
I have it built without adding the IGBT and 3.9 volt zener, and testing it, the LED's come on as they are supposed to. As I see it operate, it's a TCI and not a CDI. If I could pick a source for the output pulse to link it to a CDI, I would try to convert it..but as it is programmed, only TCI operation is possible. It's not like the universal timer board we have with the 2 sets of software for both TCI and CDI. Unless someone writes a CDI hex file for it??:(

John

CH Ignitions

01-06-2011 09:46 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Frank,

What are the specs of this engine?
total CC, bore and stroke?
Are you sure you can run this baby that high? 12000RPM for a v....kind of high.Is this a race type engine?
If your stroke is less then bore....may be able but still ...
Race engines uses high bore and short stroke and develop the HP trough high RPM's do to less inertia, engine can jump quick on RPM's...for fast acceleration...Formula 1, Indy etc.
If your stroke is higher then the bore...do not even think about, they will go up 4500-5000 RPM's and will have a good tork on mid range.
I am ... cooking a V12 engine(merlin engine for more than a year now) and this will not go more that 4.500 RPM's (19mm bore-21.1 stroke)
Ignition and fuel injection will be a real chalange. I am good at mechanics but I s...@ electronics. I have Ideas but I can not make them .

Concerning if will be enough energy for 2 sparks with one coil...YES, it will work, it has been done,I seen it working.

Rob,Guys, I have an Idea for a fuel injection,I will throw it out...Based on the same CDI timing board idea; On the camshaft one sensor to know when #1 is, then based on RPM's to calculate the equal timing for the rest and the mini injectors just to pulse,open and close. Then to have a TPS(throttle position sensor)to know where throttle is. When Throttle opens to increase the fuel pump ...output and put more fuel out trough injectors.I
pump can be electrical and increase the RPM on this , or mechanical with high pressure/volume and for this to open/close a valve . Couple sensors may be need it, fuel preesure and intake presure, nice will be to monitor the temp of the exhoust. Just an Idea...can this be done?

Adrian

COM	01-07-2011 02:29 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

John,

Can you post a link to this french timer board?

Gompy

01-07-2011 02:39 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Specail for Frank in German http://www.mini-cooper-clubman.de/html/cdi.html

BTW, normaly a multi-cilinder engine makes less rpm not more.
I think you need 12.000 sparks / min, the engine crank rotates with 2,400 rpm.

@Charlie http://www.electronics.gompy.net/tci-2cv/index.html

@John, I use this IGBT http://www.google.nl/search?sourceid...L404&q=g4bc30s

@Adrian, we working on a multi cilinder ignition with multi spark.
The link I given Frank looks like wat we have for the HV-part.
Now we working at the distribution for multi cilinders.
BUT, no-one of us have a 4 stroke engine at home to test IRL......we aren't Ferrari.
We can only make the electronics, test on the bench and hope it will work if someone put it in his/het car.

Jimmybondi

01-07-2011 02:45 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Adrian,

bore 24mm
stroke 22mm
total 100ccm

cylinder angle 72°
valve angle 60°

piston and rod are very light (12 gramm / 7 gramm)
http://hobby-cnc.de/gallery/image.ph...mp;image_id=40

i think 12.000 rpm are possible :-)

the engine should look like a formula one engine :-)

your injection sounds interesting - but such small valves ... oh my dear ...

next month i will order the parts for 5 or 10 CDIs - depending on the next inputs from here.
optical pickup or hall also ...

the distributors place is back side of the heads and connected to the camscraft

http://hobby-cnc.de/gallery/image.ph...mp;image_id=19

Frank

COM	01-07-2011 03:49 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Thanks Rob. What is the purpose of the "Red" switch? Is it 5 position?

Gompy

01-07-2011 03:55 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

At the last page of the PDF or webpage there is a table.
With the switch you can set the advange ~+/- 5 degrees.
BTW, the switch is a BCD-switch with 8 (10) positions.

COM	01-07-2011 03:56 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Hi Rob,

I see what it is. IT sets the Inital advance from .7 degrees to 4.9 degrees depending in the encoder position.

gr8flyer55

01-08-2011 05:04 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Rob..
What coil would you reccomend for the French 2cv TCI board? A standard CDI type coil has too low resistance to function correctly with a typical value of 3 to 4 ohms or less...making the system draw a huge amount of current, reducing efficiency. I have a rather large coil I used in testing that was designed for ignition systems with points. It typically has 5 ohms of resistance and functions as expected, but weighs almost a pound!

John

gr8flyer55

01-08-2011 05:15 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Charlie..
If you fina BCD switch that works, let us know the part number..

John

Gompy

01-08-2011 05:58 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

@John, I use a 6 Volt (12 Volt is smaller) mopped / bike coil.

COM	01-08-2011 06:10 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

John,

Any of these will work.

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...Wkh%2fSaW1M%3d

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...NQQz42ECcDY%3d

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...zMAfzaKA%3d%3d

Also you probably know this its not for CD ignition.

Gompy

01-08-2011 06:24 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

You need 16 positions Charlie, the one you sellect are 10.

http://nl.farnell.com/jsp/search/bro...atchallpartial

COM	01-08-2011 06:34 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

The one I selected are 4. so each pole has 2 positions. so that is 16 positions. you have to understand binary. 4 to the power of 2 = 16

Gompy

01-08-2011 06:44 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

1 Attachment(s)

Thoose are 8 position switches Charlie.

This is wat you need http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/105777.pdf

COM	01-08-2011 06:56 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Thanks Rob. That looks like it will work.

bates517

01-08-2011 08:52 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

this is my first time with a electronic ignition. do u have to wrap in rubber to keep it from viberation??its on a 43cc air boat. do they get hot??

COM	01-08-2011 12:17 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Once you build the board you might want to spread some polyurethane over the parts to protect the parts from vibration. The transistor may get warm. Nothing to worry about though.

Gompy

01-08-2011 01:20 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Quote:

ORIGINAL: COM

Thanks Rob. That looks like it will work.

Sometimes it's hard to tell wat I mean.
BTW, a normal dipswitch is also possible to use, you only have to know the BIN-code.

COM	01-08-2011 03:25 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Quote:

Sometimes it's hard to tell wat I mean.
BTW, a normal dipswitch is also possible to use, you only have to know the BIN-code.

Hi Rob,

You are correct. I dip switch will also work. Thanks for all you efforts on the TCI-CDI.

Gompy

01-08-2011 03:38 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

It isn't ready yet, we missing still a good working HV-part.
I experiment with some, but the transformers are a pain in the ass.
If I think I found the solution, the transformer is to big, not enough current, not enuogh voltage or a combination of all.
Last week I blow my last IC and I'm out of stock of the IGBT's.
I order new components allready, but the next 4 weeks we have maintenance of the energieplant I work
This means less time for the hobby, not no time !

gr8flyer55

01-10-2011 04:43 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Charlie, Have you made any headway on the Sport Devices c code to get it edited enough to compile to hex? I've tried numerous times to figure out where to add the delimiter symbol to get seperated lines so the compiler will recognize the lines.. Maybe someone else has got it to compile.. No response from the website as to how to get it to work. When I think I have it edited and try compiling it, errors are all over the place.
As for the schematic, I substituted a 4 mhz. resonator for the crystal and eliminated the curve selector switch for now.. All I need now is to enter the components into Layo1 program to make a pcb.

John

bcchi

01-10-2011 08:41 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Hi Charlie,
Have lots of transformers now.
BCCHI
Also the tiny spark coils. Am doing your package.

bates517

01-10-2011 09:35 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

what would a good battery to use on 43cc electronac ignation. how about a reciver 4.8 volt ?? would it run very long???

COM	01-11-2011 03:23 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Hi Bill,

Thank you so much for the package. Hopw you get well soon. Are the spark coils the same one you sent me?

regards
Charlie

COM	01-11-2011 03:25 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

you can 4.8 or 6v packs.

dinoslmn

01-11-2011 10:34 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Sorry the web not support this text.

dinoslmn

01-11-2011 11:03 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Hi John,
Right click and save as ignition.c
If not works send me a PM with your email and i will send the file.
I compiled with PCWHD compiler and works (only a warning but i ascked the program owner an it is ok).
only one remarc :
RB1 is pin #7
RA4 is Pin #3
for 18 pin package

Dino

Gompy

01-11-2011 12:17 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Code:

 

 ************************************************************************* 

 **** 

 **** Digital ignition for 2 stroke engines. SPORTDEVICES 4/3/2005 

 **** 

 **** NOTE: use compiler: PCW v2.619 

 **** 

 **** Digital parts: PIC16F84a, XTAL 4MHz 

 **** Complete schematic: www.sportdevices.com/ignition/ignition.htm 

 **** To ask any question: [email protected] 

 **** 

 **** 

 ************************************************************************** 

 

 #include <16F84a.H> 

 #fuses XT,NOWDT,PUT 

 #use fast_io(a) 

 #use delay(clock=4000000) 

 

 //setup values 

 #define prescaler 7 //2^7=128 

 #define delay_multiple 8 //8 us, min 3 us 

 #define low_rpm_pulse true //does it generate pulses at low rpm? 

 #define low_rpm_multiple 40 //us, to calculate degrees at low rpm (8 * 2.5 = 40) 

 #define scr_pulse 200 //scr spark time, microseconds 

 #define pulse_polarity 0 //0-activates low 

 #define min_rpm 200 //min rpm value, if lower the program starts again 

 #define min_period 31 

 ****** 

 #define max_period 60000000/(2^prescaler)/min_rpm 

 

 int const ignition0[64]= 

 {48,49,51,52,54,56,57,59,60,62,64,65,67,68,70,72,73,75,76,78,80,81,83,84, 

 86,88,89,91,92,94,96,97,99,100,102,104,105,142,145,147,149,151,153,155,157, 

 160,162,164,166,168,170,172,174,177,179,181,183,185,187,189,192,194,196,198}; 

 

 

 int const ignition1[64]= 

 {22,23,25,27,29,31,33,35,37,39,41,44,46,49,51,54,56,59,62,65,68,70,73,77,80,83,86,89, 

 93,96,100,103,106,108,110,112,115,117,119,122,124,127,129,131,134,136,139,141,144,146, 

 149,151,154,157,159,162,165,167,170,173,175,178,181,184};*/ 

 

 //Note: Delay values are calculated in multiples of 4 microseconds 

 //first value is for 15121 RPM (TMR0 count=31) and last value is for 4987 RPM (TMR0 count=94) 

 

 

 #define pickup PIN_B0 //pin 6 

 #define thyristor PIN_A2 //pin 1 

 #define LED PIN_A4 //pin 1 

 #define curve_sel PIN_B2 //pin 8 

 #define inhibit PIN_B1 //pin 8 

 

 #byte TMR0=0x01 

 #byte PORTA=0x05 

 #byte PORTB=0x06 

 #byte INTCON=0x0b 

 #byte OPTION_REG=0x81 

 

 int tmr0h,perl,perh; 

 int16 per; 

 

 #define copy16(a,b) #asm \ 

 movf a,w \ 

 movwf b \ 

 movf &a+1,w \ 

 movwf &b+1 \ 

 #endasm 

 

 #int_global 

 void int_tmr0() 

 { 

 tmr0h++; 

 bit_clear(INTCON,2); 

 } 

 

 #inline 

 void wait_pulse() 

 { 

 #if pulse_polarity==0 

 while (!input(pickup)); //wait line goes high 

 while (input(pickup)); //wait line goes low 

 #else 

 while (input(pickup)); //wait line goes low 

 while (!input(pickup)); //wait line goes high 

 #endif 

 

 perl=TMR0; perh=tmr0h; 

 TMR0=0; tmr0h=0; 

 } 

 

 #inline activate_SCR() 

 { 

 output_high(inhibit); //switch OFF DC/DC converter (if present) 

 

 output_high(LED); // led off 

 output_high(thyristor); 

 delay_us(scr_pulse); 

 output_low(thyristor); 

 

 delay_us(500); //this value is TBD (to be defined) 

 output_low(inhibit); //switch ON DC/DC converter (if present) 

 } 

 

 void main(){ 

 int retardo; 

 boolean first=true; 

 

 INTCON=0xa0; //T0IE=1 

 OPTION_REG=prescaler-1; //PULLUP on, 2^prescaler=128 

 set_tris_a(0x01); 

 set_tris_b(0x05); //pin b2 input (curve selector), PIN B0 input (pickup) 

 

 output_low(LED); 

 delay_ms(50); 

 output_high(LED); 

 delay_ms(100); 

 

 while (true) 

 { 

 

 //first pulse is not processed because the period can not be calculated until the second pulse 

 if(first) { wait_pulse(); first=false; } 

 

 wait_pulse(); 

 

 copy16(perl,per); 

 

 if ((per>=min_period)&&(per { 

 perl=perl-min_period; 

 #ifdef ignition1 

 if(input(curve_sel)) 

 retardo=ignition1[perl]; 

 else 

 #endif 

 retardo=ignition0[perl]; 

 

 retardo=retardo-8; //delay adjust (substract 8*4=32 us) 

 //do delay 

 #asm 

 bucle: #endasm 

 delay_cycles(delay_multiple-3); 

 #asm 

 decfsz &retardo,f 

 goto bucle 

 #endasm 

 

 activate_SCR(); 

 } 

 

 else 

 { 

 if (per>=max_period) first=true; //if rpm is too slow, engine is stoped 

 

 #if (low_rpm_pulse) 

 else 

 if (per>=min_period+sizeof(ignition0)) 

 { 

 //do delay 

 perl++; 

 perh++; 

 #asm 

 loop2: #endasm 

 delay_cycles(low_rpm_multiple-3); 

 #asm 

 decfsz perl,f 

 goto loop2 

 decfsz perh,f 

 goto loop2 

 #endasm 

 

 activate_SCR(); 

 } 

 #endif 

 } 

 

 } //while 

 } //main

boating around

01-11-2011 02:34 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Quote:

ORIGINAL: bates517

what would a good battery to use on 43cc electronac ignation. how about a reciver 4.8 volt ?? would it run very long???

Run time is dependant on batteries capacity. My cdi's draw between 450 and 500 mAh. Therefore I get just over an hour from a 500mAh battery pack.

bates517

01-11-2011 04:45 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

thanks so much for the info

gr8flyer55

01-11-2011 06:08 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Thanks Rob..:D

COM	01-12-2011 02:41 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

john,

Did you get it to compile in MikroC?

gr8flyer55

01-12-2011 06:13 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

No Charlie.. lots of errors..probably eol delimiters...

John

COM	01-13-2011 02:04 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Hi John,

I did not think it would compile.

Gompy

01-13-2011 09:23 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

http://www.test.gompy.net/ignition.zip
I can't get the compiled, maybe you need a other compiler.

bates517

01-13-2011 10:59 AM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

i recently purchesed a rcexl 2.0 and it does not work at all. the magnut in hub does not seem to have any magnutisum left in it could this be the problim. how can io re magenitize it ???

COM	01-13-2011 02:45 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Hi bates,

It could be the problem. the hall sensor could be bad too.

COM	01-13-2011 02:47 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Rob,

As the code is it won't compile in MikroC. It is written in CCS C compiler. They do offer a demo that will run for 30 days. you could give that a try.

captinjohn

01-13-2011 06:36 PM

RE: Complete new CDI - website open

Quote:

ORIGINAL: bates517

i recently purchesed a rcexl 2.0 and it does not work at all. the magnut in hub does not seem to have any magnutisum left in it could this be the problim. how can io re magenitize it ???

Go to Radio Shack and you can buy 2 new magnets for around $1.99. Try that first. Capt,n

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