golfingguy27

Hey Guys,
I just got a new HBK2 from BetaPilot and have mixed feelings about it in it's current state. It is definately a step up from my Blade CP in stability in hover and just general quality. Right now I have a few "complaints" that I need to address to be happy with it though. The main thing I have noticed is that it feels sluggish to me after flying my Blade CP with the Bell Hiller upgrade. The main complaint is the tail feeling sluggish. I've seen that some guys are putting the TRex upgrade tail blades on them. Does that help significantly? The cyclic (both fore/aft and side/side) response is also slow feeling compared to the CP. I think I've got plenty of headspeed and the pushrods to the swashplate are on the farthest out holes in the servo arms. What would cause it to feel so sluggish? What can I do to make it more responsive. I've seen videos of guys doing 3D with these so I know it can get better than this, I just don't know enough about helis to know what the right answer is. The other complaint is how short the flight time is with either the stock 1000mah lipos or my 1320 mah ThunderPowers. I know that is just a matter of finding the right balance of battery capacity versus weight. I have some 2100 mah Thunderpowers but I know a lot of people think they weight too much for this heli and I would tend to think they are right. Any suggestions on batteries for better flight times without costing a fortune or weighing too much? Guess that's enough questions for now.. thanks for any help anybody can give!!

Thanks,
Todd

USHobbySupply

Where are the flybar weights? Adjusting in would give you more response.

bzinfinity

Ok, let me start from the top.

The HBKII *IS* more sluggish than the CPP, but the term is not sluggish, it's "less squirrely." The HBKII is a much smoother flying bird.

The HBKII comes with the Esky 8g servos, which are not as fast as the S75 Eflites, which will cause a little of what you are describing. Also, the HBKII comes with the flybar weights attached at the furthest point from the head, which will also dampen your cyclic response.

I think your first step should be to find a way to get a different set of paddles on the heli and move the weights into the center where the head is.

Also, you are using the stock radio, I assume? Even though the stock transmitter is programmed very well, the framerate and responseiveness from the stock transmitter is pretty weak. I will post a video today of my HBK with all stock equipment and a DX7, with the servo linkage rods in the stock positions. You are going to call me a liar, because you really won't believe it's stock settings.

The Trex tail blades will not affect what I think you are describing, but I'm very honestly surprised that you consider the Blade's tail to be more responsive than the HBKII's. I'm almost inclined to say that your bird is not setup properly.

I can tell you that the Piro rate on the HBKII is not as fast as the Blade, but the tail authority and responsiveness should be much better. You might check to make sure that your belt is properly tensioned.

As far as flight time, I'm not sure I can help you out. I get 8-9 minutes of decent flight off the 1000mah battery. On my CPP I could only ever get 6-7 minutes of scale flight, if I went into Idle Up, the Eflite Brushless just destroyed those 800mah's.

golfingguy27

Good question, I will check that in a half hour or so on my lunch break. They are whereever they come stock (which I'm guessing would be set to make it as stable as possible). Is it normal for the HBK2 to feel that sluggish? I'm relatively new to heli's, fixed wing is my main hobby, I've been doing that for 15+ years, but I have picked up heli's rather quickly and am enjoying them. I don't need ridiculous 3D responsiveness (yet) but feeling sluggish compared to the Blade CP has actually almost gotten me into trouble a few times having a wider turning radius in forward flight, getting me closer to trees, etc (and myself) than I would have liked to have been!

golfingguy27

BZinfinity, you suggested getting different paddles.. what paddles would you suggest? Are you implying that just moving the weights in won't make a significant difference? I wouldn't call you a liar about the DX7.. I fly with 2.4ghz in my planes and I know the response time difference. But the problem I am having isn't in resonse time, it's in how fast the heli can physically change direction (meaning it feels like it needs more control throw or something). The piro rate is what I am comparing to the CP.. I know my stock CP piro's a lot faster than the HBK2 and I am used to that now and would like the HBK to feel the same way. As far as belt tension, I haven't checked it but I had betapilot do his belt tensioner modification to it before he sent it to me and he knows a lot more about that than I do so I haven't messed with it. I get (I'm guessing.. haven't actually timed it) around 10-12 minutes of forward flight (not just hovering) in my CP (brushed motor), and with the same 1320 Thunderpowers am only getting maybe 5-6 minutes in the HBK2. I want to look at the mesh of the pinion to main gear in mine, it feels awfully tight when I try to rotate the rotor by hand, don't know if that is part of the problem or not. I know eventually I will be very happy with it, but just need to tweak a few things to get it performing how I will like it. I'm very particular with setups in my planes and am very good at getting them how I want them. I just need to learn how to fix certain issues in helis. Thanks for all your help guys.. don't know what we'd do without RCU!

Todd

bzinfinity

Well, the CPP is going to be more cyclicly (I just coined that word) agile than the HBKII because of the head design.

But I can tell you from experience on both that the flip and roll rates are better on the HBKII when you move into 3D. Also, even though the Piro rate is somewhat lacking compared to the Blades, the tail will hold MUCH MUCH better in difficult maneuvers, even in Forward Flight.

I'm not sure what other paddles fit, I've never changed mine. But I know the weights are attached to the paddles, so you will have to get a different brand or cur the weights off. I'll look into it, I have like, thousands of paddles lying around from various kits.

Dangit, all my video came out way too dark, let me charge up the pack and try again. It's raining outside, so I tried to film in my garage.

golfingguy27

Hhmm.. I wish I had somebody else locally that flew an HBK2 so I could compare mine to theres. I'm by no means an experienced crazy flying heli pilot yet, but can't imagine the way mine feels to be the "norm" maybe I'm just used to the Blade CP that is a lot smaller lighter and more maneuverable. I will have to experiment with new paddles and moving the weights in and see what that does. Has nobody else noticed that there's feels sluggish "out of the box"?

dillweed

I started on the cp pro and had the same feeling. Man this thing is slow and slugish to fly meaning the hbk2 ."HOWEVER" Now that I have had some time to get use to the way it handles I love it. The cp pro is sooooo sensitive that going from that to anything else is going to seem slow. The hbk2 with the stock radio takes almost 3/4 to full sticks to bank a turn where the cp pro you barely have to move the sticks and it's all over the place. I'm in the process of getting my hbk2 more responsive as well. I know faster servos alone should make the difference.

golfingguy27

That's kind of funny.. I just got back inside after flying three more batteries through the HBK and was logging on to update things here and say that I was starting to get used to it and it's really not as bad as I thought. I made the same discovery. I'm used to breathing on the sticks and the CP responding... I started using more stick tonight and was getting a lot better response and a lot more coordinated turns. I would still like some more piro speed though. I think I may try ordering a few of the 1600mah or 1700mah lipos that united hobbies has for sale pretty cheap and see how they do for more flight time without weighing too much.

dillweed

What motor are you running? I have the 3100kv and am using the stock 1000 packs and am getting a solid and reliable 10-12 minutes of forward flight, hovering ect. I made a battery mount out of a small piece of thin galvanized steel that sits in front of the motor and mounted it to the front of the frame with two small screws it has a strip of velcro on top of it. It's a very simple and clean setup. I can post a photo of that setup for you if you would like? Looks like it was made to be there, I didn't hack anything up. Allows you to run the stock 1000 packs and the hbk2 balances perfectly Due to the pack being mounted more in front of the heli instead of under it. I just put a strip of sticky velcro on the bottom of all my packs and it allows me to move them forward or back to attain whatever CG I like. I tried 1500 and 2100 packs as well on my mount and you just stick them wherever you get the right GC and then make note of what battery goes where on the velcro strip. Awesome setup. That being said, I don't like to push the lipo's to far 10 minutes of flight time is plenty for me I just have 4 1000 packs in rotation. Their cheap! The 1500 pack only gained maybe 2 more minutes of flight and the heli was less responsive due to the added weight. The 2100 thunderpower packs had maybe an additional 4 or 5 miinutes of flight time but flew even more sluggish due to the weight. I think my setup works for me so well with the small packs because the 3100kv draws less from the batteries than say the 3800 or 3900KV motors. I don't do a whole lot of 3d with the heli's, I save that for the airplanes. The setup I'm running is great for flying around having some fun with ample power. I wouldn't say it's high performance but it flies really good. An old buddy of mine that has owned a hobby shop for years told me with the airplanes years ago build em' light they will fly right. I applied the same concept to my HBK2. I'm Happy...Ooooh one more thing I forgot to mention I use the Trex canopy on my hbk2 if you trim it down they fit like a glove and look waaaay coool, also gives you plenty of room up front for the battery mount I'm using. Let me know if you wan't some pics.

krossk

My Feedback: (27)

Silly question - Of Course!
Been thinking about the same type of battery mount myself...

dillweed

I'm having an impossible time trying to upload these photo's I know they are acceptable size. I uploaded one with no problem to the electric heli photo section but keep getting an error uploading from disk error here in the forums. I'll try maybe from another computer.

dillweed

Here are my canopy and battery tray upgrades.

krossk

My Feedback: (27)

Cool - where did you get the green tail-feathers?

dillweed

OK, I was wondering if someone was going to ask that. I am a commercial artist. I own and operate a graphics, screenprint and vinyl graphics shop here in florida. Go to your local sign shop and tell them you want to buy one foot or maybe they will just give you some scraps of PROFESSIONAL grade vinyl. This stuff is very thin and holds and stretches like you would not believe. It's also what I stretched on the canopy. Take the two little screws on your tailfeathers out lay them down on the counter clean wth rubbing alchohol and press your favorite color vinyl on and trim around the edges with a new xacto blade and flip and repeat the other side and bada boom bada bing. This stuff holds so good it won't lift or peel at the edges. They look factory even up close. Man I love to tinker on these things.

golfingguy27

I am running the Danlion 3500 kv motor in mine. Guess that may account for some of the flight time difference. That's a nice clean setup for battery mounting. I'll have to do something like that, I am a CNC machinist so it won't be a problem. I actually got bored yesterday at work and started drawing up a CNC aluminum/carbon fiber frame. May be cool if I put the time into actually getting it cut out and put together. If it turns out real nice I may even be able to sell a few of them and make a few bucks while getting some people a cool frame for there HBK. Right now I am just getting the locations of the main components drawn up and then can design a frame around them. I am thinking I may make something that looks cool as well as functions well. Something like the cool looking frames on the heli's made by Gazaur that Hobby Lobby sells. I'll have to take some pics of my quick paint job I did on mine. It's nothing spectacular, but made it "my own" and better than the white canopy with a few stickers. Yours looks great! By the way, I know what being tailheavy does to a plane, but what does it do to a heli? Anything other than affect the fore/aft trim and/or making the cyclic need to change as it goes around just to maintain level flight?

dillweed

Thanks, I like makin em' look good. Ireally don't know how the cg on the heli's work. I figure it's something that can stationary hover so try to get the cg as close to center as possible just my guess. WOW! your heads in the right place as far as the frame. My best buddy from high school is a machinist as well and I was getting ready to have him design a frame. Please by all means I have enough on my plate with my business. If that's what you do I'd be all over it. You should be able to move quite a few I would think. Your talking to your first customer right now. If you follow through let me know. I'll take one. I'm going to start a new HBK2 thread right now. Customized HBK2's Share your photo's If you will. Thanks

golfingguy27

Here's mine. Not a WHOLE lot in mods yet, but I've only had her 2 weeks. I have the Danlion 3500kv brushless motor and 33 Amp ESC, had Betapilot do his belt mod to it which is very similar to what Dillweed did to his. I just made the battery tray out front today to make her balance correctly. It turned out nice, just used two carbon fiber rails, a piece of 1/32 ply painted black, and a piece of velcro. I did a quick paint job on the canopy and tail feathers to make her "my own" instead of the dull white canopy with a few stickers.

Todd

FMB42

I also thought that my K2 was kind of "slow" compared to my BCP. I was even thinking that "this thing is too easy" (ha-ha) until I became used to it. There is a big difference in "stick input and reponse" between the two. The BCP is, IMO, a race horse while the K2 is a more of a work horse. I'm assuming that you have tried turning the gyro down a bit so as to make the tail more reponsive.

Good luck and good flying!

dillweed

I know your belt mod is some kind if aluminum Align Trex part what is it and what kind of bolt are you using through the center. Nice battery tray by the way. Looks great. Betapilot's belt mod seems simpler and more cost effective. Please let me know? Thanks Oh, Being fairly new to heli's backing off on the gyro for more tail response. HMMMM, we learn something new every day. Thanks for the heads up.