Chad9703

So I got a new Honey Bee FP and installed the super skids and training kit. It would not lift off the ground at full throttle due to the weight. I then removed the super skids, reinstalled the training gear, and now it will only lift off the ground about 3 inches with full throttle and a fully charged new lipo battery. Is this typical?

Thanks........

pgroom_68

Hey again Chad,

I own and fly the Dragonfly #4 FP - that was cloned in order to come up with the Honeybee (way back then...) - and am running super-skids(300) also and don't have a lift problem at all. I would say that it is the added weight of the training gear that is putting your AUW (all-up-weight) to high for lift-off! not the super-skids at all. They only add minimal weight to the set-up and (back a few years now) my DF#4 even lifted off running heavier NiMH batteries instead of lipos - but I never used training gear at all! I strictly adhered to [link=http://www.dream-models.com/eco/index.html]Radd's School of Rotary Flight[/link] instead, which step by step taught me how to control the beast!
There are red "links" to the different areas on the left of page...FLYING may be the one you need

Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. I the meantime try hand-bending more pitch into your blades....

Disney1

Krashem

Hi Chad I just bought an older HB fp off of ebay and I have the same problem with out up grade skids or training gear.

I can hover up to about 18 inches and at full power that is as high as she will go.

I know this does not help you but maybe we can both learn something here.

Bruce

Chad9703

Thanks for the replies. It actually would also not lift off with super skids alone. I'll try with stock skids and no training gear.

Disney1

tortugadiver:
With a used motor/Heli the problem is usually a bad motor causing the low/loss of power. And It is possable for a New Heli/motor to be defictive.

Krashem

Ha thanks Disney1 if that works it would be a quick and inexpensive fix.

Angel_W

Hi, Chad9703, I've been having sort of problem with my Honey Bee King 2 and its serial "super motor 370". They last few. I upgrade it with a 3100 e-sky brushless motor and now it fills like a got a  new heli flying easily with a 2800 mha pack instead of its 1000. The change worth it.
Good fliying!

Krashem

Ha Chad

I replaced my motor like Disney1 suggested and she works great, maybe you did get a bad motor.

Good luck

Bruce

Chad9703

Thanks everyone. I'm thinking it might be my battery being discharged so quickly as it will lift off fine the first 4 to 5 times with super skids without problems. I also tried to find the slo max 300 which has been discontinued. Any other brushed motor upgrade options?

Disney1

Chad9703:
This is a link to the motor I use as an upgrade on my F-40.
https://www.ushobbysupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=477
Works Great and it will fit the Honey Bee FP, just check the rotation before you install.
If you have to swap the leads be sure to reverse the polarity of the Diode.
If you forget about the diode you will need a new 4 in 1.
Also have you done a Fuse Mod to the Motor?
If not now is the time. Install an 8 or 10 amp fuse in line from the motor to the 4 in 1
I used two female slip over clips and an 8 amp (old Style) automotive fuse.
Below are pictures of the Fuse mod and my favorite blade balancer.
THe fuse mod picture is compliments of Karlik.

Chad9703

Do you think a new battery will help until I upgrade the motor? Also, curious as to why a fuse mod is important.

pgroom_68

Hey again Chad,

USHobbySupply.com has the answer. [link=https://www.ushobbysupply.com/advanced_search_result.php?keywords=380&x=0&y=0]Brushed 380 upgrade motor[/link] - I am running two of them in my birds - and find that you have power to burn! Second best $17 I ever spent (the best being on super-skids). Just plug and play 'cause these Xtreme motors are designed for Honeybee FP)

Peter[sm=49_49.gif]

Chad9703

Thanks Peter. Do you have to upgrade the tail motor as well with the 380 upgrade?

Disney1

Good reccomendation on the motor.

Why the Fuse Mod?

The fuse mod protects the 4 in 1 from burning up. If you crash ( andyou will ) there is a good chance that the rotors will jam causing a HIGH amp draw from the motor.
The 4 in 1 is only rated to a max of 10 amps, and the motor will draw in excess of 15 amps and FRY your 4 in 1.
Better to use the fuse mod and use up fuses instead of $40 4 in 1's

Chad9703

Makes sense. Thanks for the tips!

Tinkman

Peter,
  I just did the 380 brushed motor upgrade this weekend. I like the motor, Nice power, I have a question though. When I first installed it, the motor was very quiet. After two days of flight it's now just as loud as my old stock motor. Is this normal? If not, what could be causing it to be so loud?

Tinkman

pgroom_68

Hey again Chad,

I don't know about "have to" but I upgraded my tail straight away with [link=http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_230&products_id=3037]THIS[/link] from Miracle-mart.com. USHobbySupply.com is your local reseller and I have even got Michael to post things to me in Australia in the past - because he has GREAT service!!! Check US Hobby out first to see if they stock this part.

Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]
P.S. Chad, while you are at USHobbySupply.com check out the online fuses - and email Michael ("contact us") for suitability.

pgroom_68

Hey again Tinkman,

Sorry mate - I'm been so busy that I haven't had time to read back into the archives re. different tail mods. I'm not a motor expert, but did you run in the motor after you installed it? This makes any wear of the brushes even and gives more power later on=better flight times. To run in motors - remove your rear blade and main blades (or hub - whatever you find easiest). Install the new motor, and connect the lipo as normal. Run your bird at a little throttle (my guess is ΒΌ-throttle, so the main shaft is turning) for 5 minutes. Increase the throttle a little bit and run for another 5 minutes. Repeat twice more - for a total of 20 minutes. You can achieve this with one lipo charge 'cause the blades are not installed. Done. In your case, you MAY have to buy and replace the BRUSHES again - and run them in properly.
Do you have any silicon spray handy? Spray the mechanics liberally - but don't get to much in the motors. PUT A DROP OF LIGHT (3in1) OIL - sewing machine oil - ON THE JUNCTION BETWEEN MOTOR SHAFT & BRASS PLATE (UNDER THE PINION) - (holding your bird upside down) SO IT CAN FOLLOW THE SHAFT DOWN AND WORK ITS WAY INTO THE MOTOR OK.

Hope this helps remove some noise - lubing is always good (ask a Mythbuster)

Peter[sm=shades_smile.gif]

Tinkman

Peter,
  Thanks for the information. I had no idea I was supposed to do this, but it does make sense. I guess I'll be buying a set of brushes in the next day or so,

Tinkman

pgroom_68

Noone tells you these things when you're a newbie. It can be really annoying to lose power in $34 BRUSHED motors - ask me how I know[:@] Maybe my posting this info will inspire others with a bit more experience to relate how the h@ll they do underwater run-in?[sm=confused.gif][sm=bananahead.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

Peter[sm=49_49.gif]
P.S. Buy your brushes [and while you are there add [link=http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2532]springs[/link] for the same motors to your shopping cart] from[link=http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_230&products_id=2140]Miracle-mart.com[/link](the manufacturer of all things Extreme Production) as [link=https://www.ushobbysupply.com/product_info.php?products_id=929]USHobbySupply.com[/link] is out-of-stock ATM - shipping form HongKong to you takes about 10 working days

Update: I found a [link=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVxf_6vFB1o]youtube video[/link] as an explanation of underwater run-ins of brushed motors. It goes for nearly 5 minutes

Tinkman

  Sounds like good advise on the springs. How many sets of brushes do you think I can go through before I need another motor? It seems like eventually the comuntator on the motor would wear out. And did you say underwater run-in?
  Speaking of all things Extreme Production; I upgraded everything on the rotor to cnc. I had to make some minor adjustments for the aluminum parts, but I ran into a problem with the "Circle-like tie rods". When assembled, the rotor blade grip and the flybar control seem to be a little too far apart. I can get the tie rods on, but there so tight that the flybar won't pivot freely. Has anyone else run into this, and if so how did you deal with it?
  I eventually had to remove the aluminum central hub and go back to stock, but it's a shame because other than the spacing being off it's a well made part.

Tinkman

pgroom_68

Hey again Tinkman,

I have not had to change any brushes on the 380s - I have a spare pair just-in-case. I have read of one guy going through 5 pairs and replacing springs each time - but from all accounts he was increadibly hard on his motors and had a very aggressive flying style (he went through Lipos faster than I change my clothes)
Recently I removed two 380s that I had been running in my Esky Big Lama and replaced them with a BL set-up - making heat issues irrelevant to me - but I still have Extreme 380s in both my Walkera DragonFly #4 and my Esky Honeybee FPv2........Yes, I agree that the commutator would wear eventually - I think you could tell when replacing cheap brushes makes no diff to poor performance
I don't have those [link=http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=advanced_search_result&keyword=Honey%20bee&search_in_description=1&inc_subcat=1&manufacturers_id=15&sort=20a&page=1]Honey bee Metal upgrades[/link] - but I think I know the ones you mean. Doesn't that "circle-like tie rod" have a twisting thread to adjust its length?[sm=50_50.gif] All [link=http://www.miracle-mart.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_230&products_id=2556]other[/link] 'push-rod'-type rods do - worth another look!

Peter[sm=49_49.gif]

Tinkman

Hello Peter,
  Nope, unfortunately those particular push rods are not threaded. (I think I did the link right). They're so small that I don't think there's much you can do with them. I thought about maybe cutting them in half, drilling into the cut edges and inserting a short section of stainless rod and re-glueing just a but longer. It really needs to be a small amount. Like maybe .025" at the most.

Tinkman

Tinkman

On this page on about the 9th picture down you can get a pretty good look at the setup.

Tinkman