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Most popular Diesel

Old 06-16-2013, 12:53 AM
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123Cat
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Default Most popular Diesel


My guess is the 1.5 Diesel would be the most produced and highest use model engine in terms of attempts made to fly( RC 40's would probably have the most flight hours up )

I get a kick out of mine they are frugal, good to handle, powerful CL engine

, I have had a break

and I would like to get it out again


Old 06-16-2013, 03:09 AM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

No argument from me. I love .09 or 1.5cc size engines.

My first engine was a Wasp .049 in 1951 and lived in an area where a FF would be easy to lose so I went with U-control.

An .049 didn't have a lot of power for UC but a Cub .09 or McCoy .098 would allow you to easily do stunts in the same size model.

I still have a ton of glo and diesel .09 engines.
Old 06-16-2013, 03:16 AM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel


I'd think that the 2.5cc diesel class would have to be the most popular ever, and still be the most common diesel size used worldwide.

New engine designs or releases of old favorites still turn up every year.



Old 06-16-2013, 03:47 AM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

G'day

When I was starting out in the oily hand and cut finger business in the late 1950s, I initially played with a Frog 150 and the accepted route for a young starter like me was to buy a Taipan 1.5cc diesel. The next step was to get an OS 15 glow which would fit in the same mounting and then on to a Glo Chief 29 or Fox 35.

When I came back to the hobby in the 1970s, this had all changed and engines were mostly glow but my first new engine was a Series 13 Taipan 2.5cc diesel and it remains one of my favourite diesels. Later I moved to Super Tigre G20s which were common and popular at the time for Goodyear and Rat Race.

These days I fly RC and diesels are rare. I do have some but the last time I flew one was about three years ago. I really should get the PAW 40 and the Irvine 40D out again.

Mike in Dubbo, Oz

Old 06-16-2013, 05:14 AM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

I would also agree that the 2.5cc diesel engine size is the most popular. It is a very popular displacement size used in competitions worldwide too.
I don't think the 1.5cc engine size has the popularity that the 2.5cc size gets.

Old 06-16-2013, 05:32 AM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

Back in the early days of model airplane engines the AMA established Class A for .09 to .19 engines. In competition guys will always opt for the largest engine so you very seldom saw anyone use an .09 in AMA events.

The Europeans decided the .15 should be the king.

In the mid-fifties OK Cub came out with their luke-warm Cub .14 for international events but it didn't scare anyone in Europe. K&B introduced their Torpedo .15 and it went right to the top of international event winners.

Except for sport engines the .19 is gone and the nearest thing is a 3.5cc (.201) class. K&B and Fox did make some .201's

The .09 or 1.5cc size is a great engine size but there is no place to go with it. Except for special classes in a few countries there is no home for .09's but they remain very popular with sport fliers because they can fly half-A models with authority and none of the drama of the smaller engines.

I love .09's and the heart of my collection has always been based on them.

The McCoy .09 diesel had amazing power in it's day and featured puppy dog handling. Too bad the other USA engine manufacturers didn't jump on the bandwagon and get more into diesels.
Old 06-16-2013, 02:17 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

Is this thread about the title "Most popular Diesel" or about the original post concerning capacity?

Surely the most 'populated' model diesel would have to be something like the Russian Marz or Mk 14's as it was given away freely to schools as a training aid in the 1000's and perhaps here the 1.5cc Mk 14 may prove to be the most numerous. ( Not sure that it was the most liked but for that a wider choice would be needed as a comparator.)

But if it is indeed about the most liked model diesel size then perhaps the venerable free flight 1.3cc Mills may have a huge fan base spanning generations of flyers.
So my tentative vote goes to the around 1cc size for the rest of the world (but personally I like around 3cc.)

Thanks.
Old 06-16-2013, 02:40 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

Well it is a matter of public record that ED made over 300,000 ED Bees-and there is anecdotal evidence that a similar number of ED Racers were made-so I'd push for the ED Racer as the most popular-in terms of sheer numbers for an individual design model. I'm quite prepared to accept that numerically there may well be more 1.5 diesels across all makes-and the Russians may have produced more 2.5s too-but their numbers would be spread across designs like the MK12, MAP3, Meteor etc.

Somewhere I have the production figures for the Taifun range-which are impressive-(I'll post later)-if Luitpold or another of our german friends could come up with the equivalent for Webra that would be of interest...

I'm with Ray in terms of the Mills 1.3 though-at home in F/F, C/L and radio models-but only about 30-50,000 were made....

ChrisM
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Old 06-16-2013, 02:51 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

Hi Chris,
           this site (http://modelenginenews.org/ad/marz.html) gives "Ilya was able to obtain production figures for the MARZ which indicated that some 500,000 examples of the engine were made during the two decades or so that it was in production."

That's a lot of engines!
Old 06-16-2013, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

Ok I concede-the MARZ would appear to be the most produced individual diesel model. I think we can safely assume/agree that the 2.5cc size is the most produced diesel capacity...........across all makes?

ChrisM
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Old 06-16-2013, 03:02 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel


ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

Ok I concede-the MARZ would appear to be the most produced individual diesel model. I think we can safely assume/agree that the 2.5cc size is the most produced diesel capacity...........across all makes?

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
Agreed.

Old 06-16-2013, 04:41 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

The ,,, I tried to fly and failed proportion would be very high ,

just like the members of this forum are a very small part of the overall

They would tend to go for the 1.5 as its cheaper
Old 06-16-2013, 06:43 PM
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ORIGINAL: Recycled Flyer

Hi Chris,
this site (http://modelenginenews.org/ad/marz.html) gives ''Ilya was able to obtain production figures for the MARZ which indicated that some 500,000 examples of the engine were made during the two decades or so that it was in production.''

That's a lot of engines!

But most of those were just a kit of parts
Old 06-16-2013, 06:54 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

I also wonder how many Yin-Yan's were made.
Old 06-16-2013, 08:37 PM
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ORIGINAL: fiery

I also wonder how many Yin-Yan's were made.
Far, far too many!

Old 06-16-2013, 08:48 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

Well if imitation is the best form of flattery then you insult the memory of Gunther Bodemann who designed the Webra Mach-1, which the Hungarians and Russians copied, and the Webra Mach-1 porting the Chinese snaffled for the Yin Yan.............and actually the Yin Yans aren't bad at all......their CS made descendants are another story..............and it's a mere 60 years since the Mach-1 hit the market.....in '53

ChrisM
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Old 06-16-2013, 09:05 PM
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ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

Well if imitation is the best form of flattery then you insult the memory of Gunther Bodemann who designed the Webra Mach-1, which the Hungarians and Russians copied, and the Webra Mach-1 porting the Chinese snaffled for the Yin Yan.............and actually the Yin Yans aren't bad at all......their CS made descendants are another story..............and it's a mere 60 years since the Mach-1 hit the market.....in '53

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
Chris,

I thought that both the Yin Yan Silver Swallow, and the Russian Sokol were copies of the Hungarian Green Head Vella, and that it was inspired by the Webra Winner not the Mach 1.


One wit described the fuel for a Yin Yan Silver Swallow as needing six components.

One part Ether
New Crankshaft
One part oil
New Crankshaft
One part Kero
New crankshaft

Ray

Below, a pic of some Hungarian Vella's from Alwyn Smith's collection.




Alwyn's Yin Yan Silver Swallow



Alwyn's Sokol



Old 06-16-2013, 09:57 PM
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The cylinder porting is straight off the Mach-1, not the Winner-6 deep internal transfer flutes (4 in the Yin Yan 149). It would appear than things went something like two parallel paths Mach-1-> MK12B (and derivatives)
Mach-1->Vella/Krisma->Yin Yan. I did not wish to imply that the Yan Yan was a Mach-1 copy, it owes its direct ancestry to the Hungarian plain bearing models-and they owe their cylinder porting to the Mach-1

Chris M
Old 06-16-2013, 10:02 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

Well then how about Frog Diesels? They were everywhere when I was a kid. They must have made them by the 100's of thousands.

I only ever owned two Frogs, both 100's (1cc) for FF, but they were excellent engines.

Ray
Old 06-17-2013, 12:39 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

When I started flying C/L in the early 50s I had an ED Bee which was very popular at the time. I later moved on to an Elfin 1.49 then an ED Racer and just to be different a Fox 15. ED Racers were popular but I would be surprised if there were more of them than ED Bees. The only glow engine I remember seeing (apart from my Fox) at the field was a Frog 500 which was considered huge in those days.
Old 06-17-2013, 01:38 PM
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ORIGINAL: davidhand

When I started flying C/L in the early 50s I had an ED Bee which was very popular at the time. I later moved on to an Elfin 1.49 then an ED Racer and just to be different a Fox 15. ED Racers were popular but I would be surprised if there were more of them than ED Bees. The only glow engine I remember seeing (apart from my Fox) at the field was a Frog 500 which was considered huge in those days.

I made my earlier comment based on both personal observation and published info, plus a lot of correspondence over the years. ED definitely produced over 300,000 Bees (they made quite a song and dance about it in their advertising!) Personal observation over the last 40 odd years indicates that in New Zealand at least-ED Racers are the most commonly encountered ED engine (Bees a close second-curiously Mk1s far more common here than Mk2s) Now the Racer first appeared in 1951-and as most know won widespread acclaim for its reliability, power, handling-and affordability-it was no Oliver Tiger-but it was cheap and plentiful and responded well to reworking-and it was still available into the 1970s as the Super Racer-in other words it was in production for almost twice as long as the Bee (allowing for a slight hiatus in 1963 when the ED factory burnt down) Hence it is quite likely (as a few of my correspondents have indicated either verbally or otherwise) that at least as many ED Racers as ED Bees were produced-and possibly more, given the length of time it was in production.

I'd also point out-that unlike the Bee-which had numerous competitors, the Racer had essentially no British competitors in its market niche until the Frog 249 came along. The Oliver Tiger and Rivers Silver Streak were top end products, the Eta 15 was aimed squarely at the T/R market, and the 1957 DC Rapier fell well short of the contemporary model Racer in performance and handling.

It would be nice to know-purely for academic reasons, what the total ED production was, but other than the Bee, there seems to be no absolute reliable data, only educated guesses. The same applies to most other UK manufacturers of the 50s and 60s. The Taifun production I alluded to earlier in this thread amounted to several hundred thousand, and when I locate those figures again I'll put them up.....

ChrisM
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Old 06-17-2013, 02:11 PM
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ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

The Taifun production I alluded to earlier in this thread amounted to several hundred thousand, and when I locate those figures again I'll put them up.....

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

.....well would you believe 470,000 engines? Here are the figures-gleaned from several german sources both written and on the web:

First the so called 'dreischraube' (3-screw) series from 1952-53-plain fins, held down by 3-screws into the crankcase not dissimilar to the later UK AM series
'Junior' 1cc , plain bearing 15,000 examples
'Rekord' 1.5cc , plain bearing 15,000 examples
'Blitz' 2.5cc, plain bearing 15,000 examples
'Rennmotor' 2.5cc and 3.5cc, twin BB, FI 20,000 (2.5) + 15,000 (3.5) examples
'Meteor' (2.5cc) & 'Super' (3.5cc), rear disc, twin BB 10,000 examples

So that's 90,000 for the first series alone,

Now the more familiar later Taifuns with their various coloured heads and spinners

'Hobby Mk1' 30,000 examples
'Hobby RS' (reed valve) 10,000 examples
'Hobby Mk2'('teapot spout') 35,000 examples
'Rasant' 2.5, plain bearing 15,000 examples
'Tornado', 2.5cc twin BB 90,000 examples
'Hurrikan' 1.5cc twin BB, reed valve 80,000 examples
'Rasant-II', 2.5cc plain bearing 30,000 examples
'Blizzard' 2.5cc twin BB reed valve 25,000 examples
'Bison' 3.6cc plain bearing glow 20,000 examples
'Zyklon' 2.5cc single BB FI R/C 20,000 examples
'Orkan' 2.5cc twin BB rear disc 15,000 examples
'Sprint' 1.7cc twin BB FI glow 25,000 examples

....which adds up to 395,000 for the second series of Taifuns-you can see this was serious mass production, facilitated by the dominance of Graupner in Europe as the marketing/distribution arm

...there are still a couple of grey areas-I can find no figures for the Hobby Mark 3 -but it seems reasonable to estimate about 30,000 for that model (the Hobby RS was not a success-and its shortcomings became fairly rapidly apparent -which would account for its low production....IIRC it was only made over the period 1957-58.

There are a couple of other Taifuns-the Hurrikan 3cc twin and the Foxie 0.44cc glow that I haven't included-the former because only a few were made ~20, and the latter because it was never put on the market because Graupner saw a conflict of interest with the Cox Pee Wee they marketed in Europe..........

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'


PS And as I noted earlier in this thread-it would be great to see the equivalent figures for Webra diesel production.................
Old 06-17-2013, 04:50 PM
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Default RE: Most popular Diesel

Diesel really got of to a slow start here in the US Herkimer had a little one the (OK?) and a few more makers Drone 29. for 0ne, Coxes which were glow they made at least a million and most likely more Davis came along and makes the Diesel head for it instant diesel .20 049, 051, he sold tons along with a stronger crankshaft the killer crank and of course diesel heads for many more popular glow engines this started in 1975 this makes him a valuable contributor here in the USA, His efforts got him in the AMA hall of fame and of course today the largest
producer of model diesel fuel in the USA martin
Old 06-17-2013, 06:37 PM
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For sure. Bob Davis gave us a super conversion for the Cox .049 and many other engines. I think the OS .10 was also a big seller.

I love DDD Diesel fuel.
Old 06-17-2013, 07:29 PM
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ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

'Hobby Mk2'('teapot spout')
ChrisM
'ffkiwi'
Hey Chris,
                 you wouldn't have a picture showing said 'teapot spout?'

I am curious.


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