Foaming fuel?
05-19-2017, 01:46 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Foaming fuel?
Earlier today I asked the question if adding Armoal sp? would cause Diesel fuel to foam when filling the tank. I do not see that it was posted so I am asking again.
Thoughts, suggestions and/or comments.
Tia,
Franchi
Thoughts, suggestions and/or comments.
Tia,
Franchi
05-19-2017, 11:03 PM
#2
My Feedback: (1)
are you talking about Armorall or Amsoil?
Armorall is a auto vinyl cleaning product sometimes added to glow fuel to cure foaming, and Amsoil Cetane Booster is added to diesel fuel as an ignition improver.
Last edited by qazimoto; 05-20-2017 at 03:50 AM.
05-20-2017, 04:48 AM
#3
Thread Starter
Hi Gaz:
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I was attempting to say Armorall, the silicone plastic treatment.
My friend said as soon as he began filling the tank, the foaming started, He has used this fuel in this tank and engine before without any problems. He said that it looked like the head on a glass of beer.
Be well my friend,
Frank
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I was attempting to say Armorall, the silicone plastic treatment.
My friend said as soon as he began filling the tank, the foaming started, He has used this fuel in this tank and engine before without any problems. He said that it looked like the head on a glass of beer.
Be well my friend,
Frank
05-20-2017, 04:49 AM
#4
Thread Starter
Hi Gaz:
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I was attempting to say Armorall, the silicone plastic treatment.
My friend said as soon as he began filling the tank, the foaming started, He has used this fuel in this tank and engine before without any problems. He said that it looked like the head on a glass of beer.
Be well my friend,
Frank
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I was attempting to say Armorall, the silicone plastic treatment.
My friend said as soon as he began filling the tank, the foaming started, He has used this fuel in this tank and engine before without any problems. He said that it looked like the head on a glass of beer.
Be well my friend,
Frank
05-20-2017, 06:34 AM
#5
My Feedback: (1)
Hi Gaz:
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I was attempting to say Armorall, the silicone plastic treatment.
My friend said as soon as he began filling the tank, the foaming started, He has used this fuel in this tank and engine before without any problems. He said that it looked like the head on a glass of beer.
Be well my friend,
Frank
Thanks for the prompt reply.
I was attempting to say Armorall, the silicone plastic treatment.
My friend said as soon as he began filling the tank, the foaming started, He has used this fuel in this tank and engine before without any problems. He said that it looked like the head on a glass of beer.
Be well my friend,
Frank
05-20-2017, 09:02 AM
#6
Personally I would never put Armorall in any type of fuel, it is made for plastics and was never meant to go inside any type of engine...
A few bubbles in glow fuel will just stay above the surface of the fuel anyway and it cannot do any harm there.
A few bubbles in glow fuel will just stay above the surface of the fuel anyway and it cannot do any harm there.
05-20-2017, 10:23 AM
#7
Thread Starter
Hello:
The chap put the Armorall in the fuel. Why? I do not know. My opinion is that there are better ways to avoid fuel foaming.
I will call him and ask for more information.
Be well my friends,
Frank
The chap put the Armorall in the fuel. Why? I do not know. My opinion is that there are better ways to avoid fuel foaming.
I will call him and ask for more information.
Be well my friends,
Frank
05-20-2017, 10:50 AM
#8
Frank,
To your #7: Several glow engine users report Armorall reduces glow fuel foaming. Diesel fuel is different, with only the oil in common, and - as automotive petroleum-based oils also reportedly work with the ether and kero - that commonality with glow fuel oils may not always apply.
Glow fuels can foam when engine vibration is severe. Armorall apparently reduces surface tension - or some similar effect - so that there isn't sufficient film strength for a bubble's outer surface... (cheap and simple explanation; I expect more expert friends in here may provide a more rigorous answer.)
IF the raw diesel fuel foams on mere contact with Armorall, I certainly would not try to run the engine on the resulting 'whatever it turns into.' Possibly, more expert comment will touch on this... Glow fuel foaming is generally countered by a few drops per gallon (~4 liters). It doesn't always succeed... At that low dosage, it doesn't appear to have adverse affect on glow fuel.
Better would be to reduce either engine vibration, or improve the structural strength to reduce its effect on the fuel. Or both.
To your #7: Several glow engine users report Armorall reduces glow fuel foaming. Diesel fuel is different, with only the oil in common, and - as automotive petroleum-based oils also reportedly work with the ether and kero - that commonality with glow fuel oils may not always apply.
Glow fuels can foam when engine vibration is severe. Armorall apparently reduces surface tension - or some similar effect - so that there isn't sufficient film strength for a bubble's outer surface... (cheap and simple explanation; I expect more expert friends in here may provide a more rigorous answer.)
IF the raw diesel fuel foams on mere contact with Armorall, I certainly would not try to run the engine on the resulting 'whatever it turns into.' Possibly, more expert comment will touch on this... Glow fuel foaming is generally countered by a few drops per gallon (~4 liters). It doesn't always succeed... At that low dosage, it doesn't appear to have adverse affect on glow fuel.
Better would be to reduce either engine vibration, or improve the structural strength to reduce its effect on the fuel. Or both.
Last edited by Lou Crane; 05-20-2017 at 10:52 AM. Reason: clarity, brevity
05-21-2017, 03:33 AM
#10
My glow powered RC cars make the fuel foamy sometimes - those bubbles DO get into the fuel line and to the carb. I stopped using armorall though - it will settle out and not mix back in.
As for diesel fuel? Those bubbles dissipate very quickly. If your fuel is getting very bubbly - even without the engine running, I'd want to know the exact ingredients of the fuel and what kind of tank. Something fishy is going on.
As for diesel fuel? Those bubbles dissipate very quickly. If your fuel is getting very bubbly - even without the engine running, I'd want to know the exact ingredients of the fuel and what kind of tank. Something fishy is going on.
05-21-2017, 04:52 AM
#11
Thread Starter
Hi All:
I talked to my fiend again and all that I can think of is that there was some type of containment residing in his tin that he added his fuel to the last time that he mixed fuel. The fuel in the can left over from last year did not work this year. I think that the ether had evaporated while in storage. He dumped the old fuel out and used the same tin to contain his new fuel mix, He said the when opening the tin containing the new fuel, it gassed off like a spray can. He filled his fueling bottle with this concoction, and attempted to fill his tank. The fuel was foaming like a beer head and came out of all the tank's orifices. He also stated that he added 5ml of "engine detergent" to this mix of 500ml. I suspect that this detergent was the cause of his problems. Without knowing what comprised the detergent, I can not even make a guess at what the chemical reaction was. He used ether, JD Starting Fluid and castor oil. He and I have been using this mix for years an had no problems.
Suggestions or comments.
Tia,
Frank McCune
I talked to my fiend again and all that I can think of is that there was some type of containment residing in his tin that he added his fuel to the last time that he mixed fuel. The fuel in the can left over from last year did not work this year. I think that the ether had evaporated while in storage. He dumped the old fuel out and used the same tin to contain his new fuel mix, He said the when opening the tin containing the new fuel, it gassed off like a spray can. He filled his fueling bottle with this concoction, and attempted to fill his tank. The fuel was foaming like a beer head and came out of all the tank's orifices. He also stated that he added 5ml of "engine detergent" to this mix of 500ml. I suspect that this detergent was the cause of his problems. Without knowing what comprised the detergent, I can not even make a guess at what the chemical reaction was. He used ether, JD Starting Fluid and castor oil. He and I have been using this mix for years an had no problems.
Suggestions or comments.
Tia,
Frank McCune
05-21-2017, 04:33 PM
#12
My Feedback: (1)
Hi All:
I talked to my fiend again and all that I can think of is that there was some type of containment residing in his tin that he added his fuel to the last time that he mixed fuel. The fuel in the can left over from last year did not work this year. I think that the ether had evaporated while in storage. He dumped the old fuel out and used the same tin to contain his new fuel mix, He said the when opening the tin containing the new fuel, it gassed off like a spray can. He filled his fueling bottle with this concoction, and attempted to fill his tank. The fuel was foaming like a beer head and came out of all the tank's orifices. He also stated that he added 5ml of "engine detergent" to this mix of 500ml. I suspect that this detergent was the cause of his problems. Without knowing what comprised the detergent, I can not even make a guess at what the chemical reaction was. He used ether, JD Starting Fluid and castor oil. He and I have been using this mix for years an had no problems.
Suggestions or comments.
Tia,
Frank McCune
I talked to my fiend again and all that I can think of is that there was some type of containment residing in his tin that he added his fuel to the last time that he mixed fuel. The fuel in the can left over from last year did not work this year. I think that the ether had evaporated while in storage. He dumped the old fuel out and used the same tin to contain his new fuel mix, He said the when opening the tin containing the new fuel, it gassed off like a spray can. He filled his fueling bottle with this concoction, and attempted to fill his tank. The fuel was foaming like a beer head and came out of all the tank's orifices. He also stated that he added 5ml of "engine detergent" to this mix of 500ml. I suspect that this detergent was the cause of his problems. Without knowing what comprised the detergent, I can not even make a guess at what the chemical reaction was. He used ether, JD Starting Fluid and castor oil. He and I have been using this mix for years an had no problems.
Suggestions or comments.
Tia,
Frank McCune
how warm was the day when you had the foaming problem? Really hot? Ether (Di Ethyl Ether anyway) boils at 34.6 degrees Celsius (94.3 F). I've had the experience of opening a bottle that had been sitting in the sun for awhile on a 40 Degree C day. It boiled out of the top when I relieved the bottle pressure.
Last edited by qazimoto; 05-21-2017 at 04:39 PM.
05-22-2017, 04:25 AM
#13
Thread Starter
Hi Gazimoto:
I will ask my friend as to how hot the fuel was when he began fueling. He did say that upon opening the tin, there was a great deal of pressure along with foam that escaped the tin. This continued while he has was filling his fuel bottle and tank.
I think that you may have hit on the only realistic answer that I can deduce. I will call him and ask him about the temperature of his fuel at the time. He has scoffed at me for me keeping my Diesel fuel cool during transit and at the field.
Cheers,
Frank
I will ask my friend as to how hot the fuel was when he began fueling. He did say that upon opening the tin, there was a great deal of pressure along with foam that escaped the tin. This continued while he has was filling his fuel bottle and tank.
I think that you may have hit on the only realistic answer that I can deduce. I will call him and ask him about the temperature of his fuel at the time. He has scoffed at me for me keeping my Diesel fuel cool during transit and at the field.
Cheers,
Frank
05-23-2017, 03:28 PM
#14
Armorall? AMSOIL?
Gents,
Armorall is a trade name for a series of products basically to clean and preserve automotive finishes and interior materials, plus tire sidewalls, etc
.
AMSOIL sells many fuel related items, in several countries, including a vast range of (auto and truck) engine additives. They also have many lines of synthetic oil products. Their online catalog lists their extensive product range. Most useful, to our oily rag brigade, is their Cetane Boost Additive (CBA). It should be generally available as its main target market is truck and automotive diesel engines, to assist starting. It works well as a DII for our engines. NB: It is nasty stuff. Apply precautions against inhaling, or even skin contact.
CBA is bottled as a liquid, NOT a rattle-can spray item. John Deere Diesel Starting Ether, however, does come in a spray can. Other products than these are not as useful for our smaller engines. At least, in my experience...
Armorall is a trade name for a series of products basically to clean and preserve automotive finishes and interior materials, plus tire sidewalls, etc
.
AMSOIL sells many fuel related items, in several countries, including a vast range of (auto and truck) engine additives. They also have many lines of synthetic oil products. Their online catalog lists their extensive product range. Most useful, to our oily rag brigade, is their Cetane Boost Additive (CBA). It should be generally available as its main target market is truck and automotive diesel engines, to assist starting. It works well as a DII for our engines. NB: It is nasty stuff. Apply precautions against inhaling, or even skin contact.
CBA is bottled as a liquid, NOT a rattle-can spray item. John Deere Diesel Starting Ether, however, does come in a spray can. Other products than these are not as useful for our smaller engines. At least, in my experience...
05-23-2017, 05:18 PM
#15
And ArmorAll is sometimes used by glow fuel homebrewers as a de-foaming agent. It works well for that purpose. I doubt it's usefulness in model diesel fuel as that fuel is much less likely to foam up. I do think the OP speaks of the fuel roaming upon filling the tank, not during running?
