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Replacement for Ether?

Old 05-10-2005, 10:37 PM
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Richardfast
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Default Replacement for Ether?

Has anyone tested any of the following as a replacement for ether:
1. Coleman stove/lamp fuel
2. Naphtha solvents
3. Mineral spirits
4. Lighter fluid
5. Charcoal starter

Just need to know if you have tried any of these. If you have I would appreciate the results.
Thanks
Old 05-10-2005, 11:43 PM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?

No, we need ether to lower ignition temperature. Ether has low s.i.t. at 180-188 degree celsius.

Jens Eirik
Old 05-11-2005, 06:41 AM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?

Note below a comparison of the physical properties of diethyl ether (currently used in most model diesel fuel formulas) and petroleum ether (also known as VM&P naphtha and available at paint stores. VM&P stands for Varnish Makers & Painters):

ether ***** VM&P
Specific gravity .71 ***** .60-.75
Melting point -116C ***** -73C
Boiling point 34.6C ***** 20-75C
Vapour pressure 400mmHg@18C ****** 40mmHg@20C
Flash point -40C ***** -18C
Autoignition 170C * **** 288C

I believe the above data is for Type III VM&P Naphtha. The autoignition temperatures are not that far off. Diethyl ether is derived from ethyl alcohol. Petroleum ether is a petroleum distillate. Anyone ever try the VM&P?

Coleman Fuel is a light petroleum Naphtha containing no lead compounds. It has rust inhibitors added. The flash point is -30C
Old 05-11-2005, 06:49 AM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?

VM&P has too high autoignition 288C and impossible use in our model dieselengine and kerosene/autodiesel ignites about 250-260 degree celsius.

Jens Eirik
Old 05-11-2005, 06:53 AM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?

Richard, did you get my PM? Thanks
Old 05-11-2005, 02:28 PM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?

I think another important feature of ether is its high vapour pressure, this would help keep the fuel atomised under compression.
Stewart
Old 05-11-2005, 02:58 PM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?

Motorboy,
What is the autoignition temp for Coleman Fuel/white gas? The Coleman MSDS does not state this. I suspect it is like petroleum ether/naphtha/VM&P, but not sure.
Old 05-11-2005, 05:13 PM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?

ORIGINAL: Richardfast

Motorboy,
What is the autoignition temp for Coleman Fuel/white gas? The Coleman MSDS does not state this. I suspect it is like petroleum ether/naphtha/VM&P, but not sure.

I has searched the Coleman fuel and i can not fint the autoignition for the coleman fuel/white gas. Here are information about Coleman fuel:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/msds/lantern.pdf
But these fuels are not same as our Norwegian language. I can see there are some words i searched for my language norwegian in similar to coleman fuel and white in this site: gashttp://members.iinet.net.au/~mbuckler/fuel/index.shtml#whitegas .

These fuels are full usable for the modeldiesel as fuel because these fuels are near same in ignition temperature range as kerosene, autodiesel and gasoline.

In Norway we used these fuels as kerosene, white spirit (paint cleaner), gasoline, autodiesel to our model dieselengines. White spirit and gasoline was used before 1950 years, after rare used, mostly used kerosene.

S.I.T. (Self ignition temperature / autoignition)
Autodiesel: 240...260 degree celsius
Kerosene: about 250 degree celsius
High cetane val. Gas oil: 220...240 degree celsius


About ether formula..

Ether is manufactured from ordinary from ethyl alcohol, two molecules of which join together, with the elimination of water, thus:

{C2H5-O-H + H-O-C2H5} = 2 Ethyl Alcohol -----> C2H5-O-C-2H5 + H2O = 1 Ethyl Ether Water

The process is usualy carried out by heating the alcohol with concentrated sulphuric acid, which absorbs the water formed-which is why the product is called "Sulphuric Ether". The ether which distils over is washed free from acid, purified, dried and re-distiled. It therefore contains no acid whether it is sold as "Anaesthetic Ether"


These ether sold under difference names as: Dietylether, anaesthetic ether, Ether .720, Ether B.S.S. 759,
Sulphuric ether, Ether Meth. , Ether "Nafta".

These unuseful ether: Amyl ether, Butyl ether, Isopropylether cause too high S.I.T. and is not suitable for use in dieselfuels.

Lower S.I.T. =much easier to ignite and burn the mainfuel as kerosene..

Jens Eirik
Old 05-11-2005, 05:21 PM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?

Motorboy,
Thank you for the information.
I have found another compound which may have promise. Ethylene glycol dimethyl ethers made by Glymes. Web site is www.glymes.com. SIT is in the 190 to 200 range and they seem to be user friendly. Please check it out and let me know what you think.
Richard
Old 05-11-2005, 05:32 PM
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Default RE: Replacement for Ether?


ORIGINAL: Richardfast

Motorboy,
Thank you for the information.
I have found another compound which may have promise. Ethylene glycol dimethyl ethers made by Glymes. Web site is www.glymes.com. SIT is in the 190 to 200 range and they seem to be user friendly. Please check it out and let me know what you think.
Richard
190-200 range are too high to autoignite and need more compression and make more stress in engine parts and boiling point are too high about 85 (the ether in model dieselfuel has about 30 degree celsius boiling point)

Lower temperature, more better to autoignite fuel.

Jens Eirik

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