Hi Fellow flyers
I am an oldie to flying but a newbie to the diesel motor. I want to try the diesel on some of my planes but am really confused about which motor to try and the mix to use for it. I have been looking at the post on diesel's and need some help. I usually fly with 4-stroke and have a number of 2-strokes I could convert. I like flying the 1/2A size but have been using electric on them. I like electric but it doesn't ring my bell that much. I sold my Cox motors a while back and am looking to find a size for the 1/2A. I've looked on E-Bay and am confused about the sizes advertised that would work for my small planes. I need some recommendations about what brand and size? Can I use the car diesel fuel to start with or is there another kind I need. No one I know or fly with has any idea about diesels. I guess what I am saying is HELP NEEDED HERE.
Thanks for any info I can get.

Please look at my old thread geared for beginners.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_4853740/tm.htm

Read through the first three links in that thread. Then ask any questions you might have. Don't get too involved in the "diesels are 50% stronger than glow", just buy an engine in the suggested size range.

I would suggest buying a built as diesel engine for your first. PAW or MVVS, though MVVS will pretty much only be found on Ebay. Buy model diesel fuel for you engine. Forget about homebrewing until you've burned up your first couple gallons.

Thanks GREG
I will check the link out. I guess I can get some of the fuel from Davis Diesel and maybe a motor also. I love to tinker and scratch build so maybe this might be a new thing for me. I am 63 years old and semi retired so I have the time to experiment. I don't mind the oily mess from glow so it sounds like a challenge.
Thanks again.
Richard

WOW::: here we go in a very condensed summary, First the model diesel engine is designed to run on a mix of ether, kerosene, and castor oil and ignition improver usually a small
percentage of a nitrate, not regular diesel fuel. Right now about the the only engines out there in 1/2A are the PAWs which are the classics and a good engine to start with, When you get into engines of .10 (OS) and up you can get Davis diesel heads to convert then to diesel operation, these are the modern schnuerle ported engines. the advantage of diesel is
good fuel economy about twice the run time of glow per oz. and more torque than the same size glow this means larger props

If you are just starting, stick with the commercial products PAW . Davis conversions commerical ready made fuel from Davis or Clutton

also spend some time going back on this site and read the posts, check the Davis Diesel Site. and Eric cluttons site ( the latter is mostly classic PAWs)

and yes once you get the hang of it you are not messing around with chargers, batteries ,speed controllers etc

and the electric craze has produced a lot of ARFs which lend themselves to small glow and diesel power


and we are all here to help martin

and no glow plugs to mess with , prop sizes easily done with range by adjusting the compression screw, matchs timing to the prop load

Could I suggest some web sites with beginner info?
(Oops! Please see G Kamysz's post above - this covers it.)
-LeeH

Richard looks like everyone agrees how to do it. I must have been posting an answer same time as Greg, he beat me to it ,martin

Although diesel has not become as "popular" as glow it has been around longer, goes back about 60 years and there are more than a few oldies still running

Thanks for the much needed info. I will check back quite often as this is what I am looking for. The small glow stuff is about gone and this sounds like a very good chance to keep up with the small planes I like building. I will post some of my scratch built stuff soon. I have just completed my version of the old ACE Mach-None with an AP Wasp and am very dissapointed with the motor. It leaks in every part that bolts or screws together.
Very poor quality in my opinion.
Thanks all
Richard

Richard the Quality control on the small Chinese 1/2A is crap shoot, stick with PAW . and davis conversions as a start martin

Everyone has given good advice.

I would suggest as has already been done, stick with a commerical product first and then experiment.

I would suggest you start with a PAW .061 ( 1CC) from Eric Clutton (Dr. Diesel) http://www.cafes.net/doctordiesel/
or Ed Carlson http://www.carlsonengineimports.net/

Might seem a bit pricey to start but they are good investments, well built, reliable, and easy handling. Make sure you get one with the exhuast collect ring as that will help reduce the exhuast residue somewhat ( the 049 and 061 don't have mufflers but rather just a collecter ring.

Once you get comfortable with and are an old hand at running your small PAW you can then start experimenting with conversions.

Good luck, these engines are addictive.

cheers, Graham in Embrun near Ottawa Canada

Richard, yes they are addictive but with good reason, Just going out to the field with just your plane, radio, and a small amount of fuel, flip and go with that little PAW is worth it no glow plug or battery hassles. If you notice the posts, the Irvine 40 diesel seems to be the " cult" engine in the 40 class ,many of us have them, but sadly out of production. However they can be found, The issue with the engine was that big brass contra piston dropping, Mr Davis comes to the rescue and makes a head for it yup, a replacement head for an engine already a diesel, end of problem. Then its goes out of production, after a bunch of us pleaded our case Davis sets up a CNC program and back in production, The Q40 irvine glow is the same engine and just needs the diesel head. The OS 2 strks make great diesels also and the Kand Bs , Foxes, made here in the USA same , Super tigres too but enough for now , just go enjoy martin

One more thing since back pressure not a issue with diesels many of us pipe the exhaust to the rear of the plane with thinwall aluminum tubing, plane stays nice and clean

If you check the Davis Diesel site there is also a good concise narative on conversions

Thanks Dieseldan,
Any hobby now is costly but I have built up a good supply of stuff over the years and the cost of a new motor is not an issue. I'll try the paw as soon as I can order one. I live about an hour drive to the FHS (Red Max) supply but they advertise diesel fuel that seems a little high price to me.
I will check out other sources of fuel and order what I need to get started. I will plan on mixing my own mix as soon as I can locate the items. I have a good friend that owns a john deere dealership and am going to check on the ether from him. He is an old flying buddy from past. It won't take long for me ( I hope ) to get the hang of the motor.
Thanks again
Richard

Richard Best not to get into 2 unknowns at the same time. the fuel is the least expensive component , a gallon in that 061 will last you a year take a ride to Red max fuels martin

Hi again
I just got off the phone to Doctor Diesel and he is sending me a price list for the paw06 and a gallon of fuel. His fuel price is half of what red max charges. His is $20.00 gal. plus shipping (11.00) compared to red max at $44.00 for 4 qts. I'll stick to Doc's stuff and save the gas of the trip to Clover SC. Sure am getting excited. It's almost like getting ready to try flying a new build. The Doc won't take a credit card so I have to wait for the list and get a money order. Good hearing from you again.
Richard

Dieseldan
I have a bunch of metal tanks left over from my control line days years ago. I could use these for the tanks for diesel couldn't I. I think I'll sell on E-bay my Norvel stuff and play with this now. It's amazing how you can get excited over something so small.
Not changing the subject but have you gotten any rain there lately. I could almost walk across the river up here now and not get to wet.
Richard

Richard Clutton runs and sets up every engine he sells and even writes down the settings for you in case you get out of adjustment so a little tweek and you are back
martin

The only problem is one I am probably one of the few who is affected by -

I live at about 5,000' above sea level. Settings may need a tweak to serve "up here." Diesels are less affected by altitude differences, but are still affected. So, if your home altitude is much different, expect some minor tweaks to be necessary... For throttled engines this may be more noticeable...

Richard, a gallon of diesel fuel will last a loooooong time in a PAW .06. I would suggest you dispense it into smaller (pint or quart) containers, if possible.

George

Thanks George
I had planned on doing that. Got to round up some metal cans. I am looking a lot forward to trying diesel. It sounds like it is up my alley. As long as I don't get to mad if it doesn't want to crank. I have plenty of patients? but as age keeps creeping on it sometimes wears thin.
Richard

Back in the nineteen fifties, when I was learning diesels, there was no internet (actually, no home computers) and very little information on running diesels in the USA. Most of us back then learned by the whacked and bloody fingers method. I remember wearing a glove on the starting hand. Also using the wrong glove on my hand when that one wore out. I had some McCoy .049's but mostly foreign .15's. The most fun I had with diesels were with the Supertigre G-31 or G33(? rear intake BB 2.5cc), and the Webra Mk-1 (even though it required drilling out prop holes). I had others, but logged more time on those.

Once you have the proper settings and the engine is broken-in, starting a diesel is easy. Since most are iron/steel, you can familiarize yourself to their starting habits during the break in period. When you become familiar with them, starting is easy...and NEVER a dead booster battery.

George

George, you are dating yourself with the 1950's. I started with glow in 1950 and later diesels. My favorite from the late 1950's was the Super Tigre 2.5 cc G-30 rear drum induction with ball bearings. Later there were G-31 and G-32 one 1.5 cc and the other 1 cc. A couple years back I ran the 1 cc version for a friend and a real nice engine. I may be wrong on the G-31 and G-32 designations. The first R/C model I saw fly was in the early 1950's and a diesel on a power pod on a glider type model. An older fellow used a small British diesel possibly 1 cc for power on this model. The diesel fuel was in a glass jug similar to what vinegar came in at the time with a small diameter lid. The fellow taught how to start and run a diesel. Also how to mix fuel. My favorite diesel from the 1960's was the Webra Mach II also a 2.5 cc engine with no exhast stack. Jack Hiner

George and Jack
You two must be older than dirt. Just kidding. I didn't get started in flying until the mid 60's. I remember when I was very young I would beg my mother for a quarter so I could go to the dime store and buy a stick model, run home and put it together. I don't remember ever trying to wind the motor and flying it though. I don't think I have ever seen or heard a diesel run. It just was not what anyone at the fields I have flown at was doing. Looking forward to getting one. There is a local swap meet tomorrow in another close town and am going to go and see if anyone has any diesel's for sale. If not, it is order time.
By the way I am 63 years young.
Richard