I have a quick question about ether.

I just priced a purchase from a chemical supply mob (around AUD$90 - $100 for 2.5 litres + $30 for shipping). They have various grades of ether available.
http://www.ssapl.com.au/ProductListi...&Product=ether

Is it necessary to buy one of the anhydrous grades of ether, or is it a case that its all the same stuff and the anhydrous grade is just tested as being water free? Ie. if I don't buy the anhydrous ether am I in danger of getting water in my fuel?

Depending on whether it needs to be anhydrous or not, I'll be getting either :-

Product code: EA012/2.5L Diethyl ether AR
or Product Code: EA036/2.5L Diethyl ether anhydrous AR

It'll work out to around AUD$17.50 per litre of 45%/30%/25% Diesel/Ether/Castor fuel.

thanks,
Col

Solvent grade is fine to use for fuel. The next step up is reagent grade or anhydrous and not required.

The last bottle I bought through the local chemist cost me A$30 for half a litre, so you're getting a decent price too.

Colin,

As far as I know you only need to get solvent grade. I get mine from the local Team Race guru.
In Sydney it's not possible for just anyone to get ether from the chem cos. Something about stuff that goes bang! It also doesn't stop the local gang getting as much as they need for drug manufacture. [X(]

Col-the lowest grade of commercial ether is perfectly adequate for our usage-that is 'solvent grade'. from chemical supply firms ether is normally available as 'solvent' (generally in the larger quantities-20-litre or 200 litre drums), next up in purity comes 'GPR'-general purpose reagent for general lab use, than 'AR' standing for 'analytical reagent', then 'spectral grade' for UV or visible spectroscopy grade and finally the ultra pure HPLC grades-with each ascending level obviously the impurities go down and the price goes up!
AS regards 'anhydrous' well ether is not especially miscivle with water, and does not absorb water in the way that methanol or acetone or some other solvents do. So even normal ether has a very low water content-but there are some synthetic or laboratory reactions for which even a trace of water is undesirable, so anhydrous ether is available (at a higher cost, since it requires an additional treatment) for such critical applications.
For our diesel use, traces of water at a few tenths of a percent are irrelevant-it doesn't affect our engine running in the slightest-and diesel fuel does not absorb moisture, unlike glow fuel. If you've never done it, you will find that a 'drowned ' diesel will start and run even with quite a lot of water still inside-the exhaust residue is white and emulsion like for a few seconds until it clears the water out-but even a unplanned dunking-landing in a pond or nosing over on takeoff for a waterplane, does little harm.
In short-by the cheapest grade you can get your hands on-any grade of ether will work for our purposes-and your decision should be based on availability and cost-per-volume considerations rather than chemical purity. [ie-you might find a 20-litre drum the most cost effective option if there are several of you] I don't know if Ajax Chemicals are still in business on Oz-but they were very competitive when I was buying ether for the Dunedin MAC about 15 years ago-though of course I was dealing with the NZ subsidiary then.

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

Just a thought guys John Deere starter fluid is over 80% ether 7 oz is 210Ml x .8 approx 170cc ether per can the propellant is butane I believe, you can consider the liquid left as 100% ether
thus 170 x 7 cans really 1190cc thus more than a litre at $5 a can x 7 cans about $35 say round up to 40 would be less money martin . I think for out out of USA use this is what Davis
suggests for making diesel fuel martin

I bought JD starting fluid here last month , the current price localy is now A$7.80/can , so 7 cans would run A$54.60 . So for 2.5L it would cost approx A$114.70 via JD starting fluid, so depends on what grade he gets as to which will be cheaper.
For me haveing a large JD agent close by its much easier to use the JD fluid(it gets cold here), but theres a lot of JD agents that dont carry the starting fluid here in oz due to our temps, and the starting fluids sold in our auto parts stores is only 25% or less either content.
Stewart

Stewart right you are on the low ether stuff in the auto parts. The John Deere place is only about 2 miles from my house and in hot Florida they do not stock, I had to order a case of 12 last year $54, Most likely it has gone up in price by now
We are lucky here in the US to Have Davis, Red, Max and maybe an other one for readymix and at $30 a gallon not bad since with the Nitro thing glow fuel will be there in fact some is $35 a gallon now martin

Good quality ready mixed diesel fuel is now available in Australia. Check out the bloke who advertises Castor oil in the back of ACLN. He is mixing it and will send it by courier.

ACLN = Australian Control line NEws.

It's available online at www.vicstunt.com see the newsletters link button.

regards Ray

Its about time you guys can get fuel, "Down under" seems to be the hotbed of oil oily rag folks, must have been like looking for the Rosetta stone, No one in the US carries Enya diesels sad martin

Martin,

there has never been a problem in getting ether in Australia. It's just that the folks seeking it on this forum havn't been asking the right questions. Yes there is a very vibrant diesel culture here amongst the control line, freeflight ans Sams community.

regards Ray

I rang up Ajax Finechem in Taren Pt (Sydney) the other day (& subsequently got chatting to Col about it, which is kind of how this thread kicked off). Ether needs no end user licence here, and all I have to do is establish an account with them and they'll sell it to me. Hopefully this is as easy as it seems!

Steve,
I've not had a problem.
Peter

Hi Ray,

Indeed! In my case it was due to being isolated from any other C/L fliers until recently, so was going down the John Deere fluid route.

A situation now rectified.

The premix fellow is worth knowing about as well (just looked that up), but for the most part am happier mixing my own fuel (do so for glow).

cheers,
Colin

Even easier than that. I found a local company in the Yellow Pages, gave them my credit card number, and will be collecting 2.5l of ether at the start of next week. $115 for 2.5l of AR-grade. Fuel should work out at about $17 a litre, which seems pretty reasonable. I can't really see that diesel fuel is much more of an issue than glow fuel.[8D]

Hi Steve,

Its actually quite funny how ether turned out to be a complete non-issue. As Ray (loctite401) said, it was a case of not asking the right questions.

I just got 3 cans of John Deere quick-start for $7.49 each. They were the last 3 cans of the stuff that the Brisbane JD dealership had. That will be more than enough ether to get us going on the weekend, but after it runs out I'll just get a 2.5 litre bottle of ether like you've done.

cheers,
Colin

Steve 17 a Litre not too bad, I Just got my Horizion hobbies catalog in the mail and nitro glow fuel for cars running between $12 and $21 a quart depending on nitro%
martin

Steve and I ran some of our diesels on the weekend, with mostly good results bar one engine.

I managed to get 3 cans of JD quickstart from the local John Deere dealer, so did the "invert the can and spray the propellant out" thing. Made up about 800ml of 45% kero / 30% ether / 25% castor fuel.

First engine on was Steve's Oliver Tiger replica (not a CS). The first run was ragged, possibly due to some remaining propane propellant in the ether. We let the fuel bottle vent for a bit and later runs were fine. With the fuel settled down the Olly clone settled down to a solid 11,600-11,800 on APC 9x4, with 12,000 obtained by fiddling further with the needle & compression. The next time we run his Olly it'll be in a plane.

Next engine up was my original PAW 19DS that I've owned since 1981. This was a disaster. More on that - see below.

We then went to a PAW 19DS-3 that I bought on eBay. Easy starting & adjustment, turned a Master Airscrew 9x6 at about 9,200. I had doubts about the merits of the Master Airscrew, and expected more thrust, so tried a Bolly Clubman 9.5x6. Much better - 9,600-9,700, a happier sounding engine, and more thrust than with the master airscrew. The Bolly 9.5x6 is a really good match for the PAW 19, and will be the first prop I try for flying when I get it into a plane.

The final engine we ran was my NIB early serial number MARZ 2.5D. Taipan 9x4 prop. Initial starting was challenging, as it turned out we had the compression in a turn too far. Steve was able to get it to a start, and we gave it a nice rich under compressed run, then peaked it for the last minute or so. It responded beautifully with a lovely smooth powerful run, lots of thrust, and sounded like it was doing just under 11,000 (it was too dark for my tacho to work). Not quite as strong as the Olly, but I think it'll get within 500 rpm when fully broken in. It was definitely still improving. After running it felt very much different to before - much smoother bearings and superb compression that does not leak away at all. I'm quite impressed with the MARZ for such a cheap Soviet era engine - its easily as powerful as a PAW 15, and will do nicely for sports flying in some kind of profile stunter. It was a good thing that I opened & cleaned it before running though - there were quite a few metal filings inside the crankcase.

Now, to my original PAW 19DS that I mentioned before. After mounting & priming we were on the verge of getting it to run (a few pops) when there was an almighty crack and the tommy bar popped out a millimetre or so and would not screw back in. When I took it out I found that the thread in the cylinder head had neatly shelled itself into a helical coil around the thread of the compression screw. I'm just glad that a PAW 19 head is an easy item to replace. I'm a bit bummed out about it because this particular engine was my original "big" engine and the only one that I have a sentimental attachment to. Steve's taking it back to Wollongong with him to hand on to David Owen for evaluation.

cheers,
Colin

The head might be repaired with a helicoil and allen to fit it, saves the cost of a new one, and will not strip out, See your fuel mixes are fine you might consider sone cetane booster from amsoil (octyl nitrate) 1.5% should be plenty makes tuning a little easier and improves the burn martin

I would simply rethread it for a readily available hex socket head screw size, making sure to square up the tip and use a center drill to hollow the tip. Sounds like a fun day though.

Greg you always come up with the easier way, whats next?? going to invent a new diaper dad?? bet you are busy martin

Yes busy. I think the diaper available today have reached the limit of available technology. I did manage to get a few hours of flight time on an Avistar with an Enya 46-4C on spark ignition with methanol and E85.

Greg neat post as pix if you have time, The ignition CH or home brew?? My guess should run a little cooler on E85.
Working on Beav#2 a KMP eelctric conversion to the OS32SX Davis head,quite a few mods removable tray that holds a 6 oz dubro tank can pull it back and out the top went to
robart ball link control horns sullivan 2 mm rods and clevises glass fus is excellent, built up wings well done, struts go into blind nuts 3mm on wing and fus, dumped all their control surface hardware. Wife just had reconstructive surgery after Ca 2 years ago. so this is hit or miss time permitting to finish up martin

Already been sent off for attention, but the hex socket head sounds like a workable approach if it happens again to one of my engines.

It was great to be playing with diesels again. I was particularly impressed with Steve's Olly clone. I'll have to look into getting one of the CS ones myself.

My wife was rather unimpressed with the characteristic odor of diesel operation 'though. She's only been exposed to glow power up to now.

One more question :-

When my MARZ was running, I noticed that the needle valve was rotating a bit from the vibration. Fine for bench running, but I need to find a way to secure it for flying. Thread tape the best way to do deal to this?

Col

can you slide a piece of fuel tubing over it?? martin

Col,

you may need to put a metal spacer between the venturi and the nut. It may have "run out of thread".

For what its worth the PAW compression screw thread is 2 BA. You might have trouble getting that size in a heli-coil. You could tap 1/4" x 32 UNEF, which is the glowplug thread. Steve Rothwell has his R250 comp screws at this thread, and he sells spares for about AUD 10.

Otherwise, its a bit course but how about tapping 10-32 UNF. You can get the taps and suitable socket head screws at a good hobby shop. R/c warehouse up your way would be a good source.

Regarding the Oliver clone, it was probably a "Rustler MK3 Olly" copy. Assembled and sold by Ian Russel in the UK from high quality Russian parts.. Usually about GBP110 or so when available, but a much better proposition than a CS. I can supply contact details. Otherwise you could get one of Steve Rorhwell's R250s. Just under $400 Australian. There is a waiting list.

regards Ray