New 09 Diesel
 

The long awaited Parra 09 Diesel/glow is about to be released. Alberto is circulating these pics. It's available in AAC and ABC and upward or downward facing exhaust versions.
It will come with a glow head button even though it's designed as a diesel. It's a screamer not a lugger.

Performance:

This is from Alberto's email:

Today I tested Two wasp and I´m very glad with results.

I take only 2 runs of 5 minute each, sufficient time to set the head, and there is the result:

- Sea level
- 75% humidity
- 21 ºC
- Fuel; 20 Castor, 35 diethyl Ether, 43 Kerosene, 1,6 DII-3

Every time oil as honey, unburned, head clean with not deposit of burn.

PROP Ventury 3,30mm Ventury 2,70 mm
Graupner 6x6 17.700 rpm 16.400 rpm
Graupner 6x5 19.700 17650
Graupner 6x4 20.910 18.900
APC 6x4 20.600 18.800
NN 6,4x3,76 21.150 19.100
Kavan 6x4 yelow 18.100
Kavan 7x4 black 17.600 16.300

Engine stops and compression never loose. Very easy restart.

I test with Parra 2,5 silencer with teflon insert to adapt to exhaust tube and lost only 1.000 rpm and 20db.

Also I tested R/C carburetor and Parra muffler version with very impressive idle run.

Also I flown a Carbon Trifonov 1/2A combat model and gets time 2.7-2,8 sec/lap with 6x4 graupner and APC. Engines never was forced.



http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/u...40/Om34448.jpg


http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/u...40/Kf14634.jpg


http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/u...40/Rl25258.jpg


http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/u...40/Lw20361.jpg


http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/u...40/Io65145.jpg


[img]http://images.rcuniverse.com/forum/upfiles/201440/Be68833.jpg[img]

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Looks great numbers awsome, hope the crank very good grade of steel since it is half cut a way at the intake martin

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

The manufacturer (in the Ukraine) also makes F2C and F2D engines. Believe me this one will hold together!

As anticipated the push/pull Diesel head button is similar to that of the Parra 15, so lends itself to modification for fitting to other engines.

My orders in, and it should be delivered with weeks.

:D

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Ray,

What's the link for orders & quoted price??

Greg

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Greg,

http://www.clubtamaran.com/Parra%201.5%20INFO.htm

No final price yet but around Euro 110-125 I'd guess.

At Euro80 cents to the Aussie Dollar it'll be a steal!

:D

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Parra Wasp 1.5 cc

************************************************** **********************************

Advice received from Alberto Parra 8th July 2012:

"I have on stock a few of ABC versions. R/C carburettor available.
Discount of 10 euro for advanced reserves.
free shipping for two engines.

PA15-2 Parra Wasp 1.5 ABC -Special 125
Parra Wasp 1.5 AAC - Special 130
Parra Wasp 1.5 ABC –Special-R/C 135
Parra Wasp 1.5 AAC – Special –R/C 140
Only R/C carburetor 25
Multiwrench 1.5 Wasp 14
BAN-4 Dural combat mount , M3 threaded for Parra Wasp 1.5 12

sÃ*guenos / follow us:

http://www.facebook.com/aeromodelismo.tamaran

I believe prices are in Euro.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

FIERY believe that is Euros price X .82 (APROX) SHOULD GIVE $$ NOT BAD WRENCH IS EXTRA NOW NOT FREE WITH ENGINE martin

Finish of engine and casting outstanding

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Nice looking engine.

I never could understand why an .09 or 1.5cc class never got off the ground in the USA.

This size engine is still my favorite since getting an OK Cub .099 and McCoy .098 in 1951.

Some half-A models came out heavy and an .09 makes life a lot easier.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I think it is pretty neat for a engine. I hope they get it to production soon. It looks great.

The A class competition events are still being run a lot. But at first guys were running Cox Tee Dee .051's in this class as they could use the same plane for 1/2a or A then. But you see the A class event mostly for free flight competition not control line though. It may have been a lack of high performance .09 engines that limited it here in the USA. Many of those high performance .09 engines never made it to the USA. For RC flying, it was the lack of suitable airframes for the .09 engines that limited it a lot.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

These engines are specifically aimed at the popular European and Anglo-sphere 1/2A Combat and Team Racing c/l market.

More pictures and details this morning.

http://www.clubtamaran.com/waspRC.JPG



http://www.clubtamaran.com/Parra%201.5%20INFO.htm

This is a nice touch!

http://www.clubtamaran.com/drawn-wasp1.JPG

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

The engine is nicely finished and figures are impressive. The crankshaft looks the goods.

Unfortunately only "combat" exhaust ABC models are currently available. I am waiting on news of "racing" spec exhaust (usual side) engines coming into stock.

The photograph above shows an ENYA R/C carb which will be fitted where the R/C spec unit is ordered.

Interesting, the "MK-17" style tommy bar compression adjuster shown in the blueprint schematic drawing was dropped for the more sophisticated "push~pull" vernier.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

AMA Class "A" never favored the .09 engine displacement. For maximum power such as control line speed the .19 was top dog, first the McCoy redheads and then the K&B greenhead blew everyone away.

When the USA joined the .15 FAI competitions the K&B greenhead went right to the top of the list.

Bill Atwood saw the advantage of using an .051 engine in a half-A FF model he made his .049 and .051 engines which Holland Hornet copied and they also went the .049 - .051 route.

Bill Atwood developed the TD engines for Cox so they offered both the .049 and .051 sizes too.

While the K&B Greenhead .15 and .19 engines were proven winners the Greenhead .09 actually put out more power per displacement than either of it's larger brothers but the .09 had no place to go.

K&B announced their Greenhead .09 around 1954 and I ordered one from my local dealer but as far as I know they never made them until around 1957. When they did come out they were a real winner.

Early .09 greenheads had a long, open exhaust port and would sometimes become warped. K&B quickly modified the design by adding a web in the center of the exhaust port to strengthen it.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

For racing I'd be inclined to cut the exhaust stack off altogether. It'd make it much easier to put into a cowl.

The small Enya 09 r/c throttle seems about the only game in town for a 1.5cc diesel. I have an original Oliver Tiger Cub 1.5cc diesel fitted with one from the factory.

:D

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I just read this enail from Alberto about the Wasp 1.5cc engines:

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I am on the reserve list, but will have to wait for more to come in to get a 'racing' version.

My lovely girlfriend got me a Parra 2.5 R/C Limited Edition for Christmas this year, and he's lonely.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

After some 55 years the TD 09, a 1.5cc engine, is still the standard of comparison. As said the 09 size engines were orphans in the USA, not really paid attention to. I think the TD 09 would have been a good free flight engine, but I've only seen one or two at contests. There was some thought at one time that the FAI was going to go from 2.5cc to 1.5cc for free flight. The Johnson Bulldog 09 was designed to offer another American 1.5cc engine, but the change did not occur.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

The Australian Sesqui 1.5 was also developed-in diesel and glow versions about a decade after the Johnson Bulldog, (Dan Vincent probably has one!....)-also in the expectation that the FAI was going to approve an imminent change from .15 to .09 for International competition. As we know this didn't happen second time around either-which is why not a lot of Sesquis got made.......and why they command big prices. The FAI did go as far as loosening the F1C class rules to allow the use of smaller engines in smaller sized models-called F1C(Mod)-but this never caught on (I was one of the few to try it)-this would have been around 1985/86. Then they jumped in boots and all with the F1J class and a 1cc limit-but this is now dropping in popularity.........(the need for US $200+ engines might have something to do with the decline in F1J)

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I do have the Std and RC versions of the Johnson Bulldog. I wanted a Sesqui for a long time but the closest I got was seeing one that Stu Richmond had when he lived near me in Apopka, FL.

The Sesqui was gorgeous but I never did understand why the Intake was right in the exhast port blast.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I toyed with the idea of putting down a deposit on a Sesqui, (it was like the original Doonside Mills project you had to put up an initial deposit and become 'subscribed' to get one-then pay the balance when they were completed) but I was at university at the time and they were expensive even then-and with the amount of flying I was doing at the time I couldn't justify the expenditure. Wish now I had............... Quite a number of them subsequently formed the basis for various 1/2A T/R specials in the hands of a few skilled people. I don't know how many were actually produced. Peter Burford probably does. IIRC the intent was to offer a Mk1 a Mk2 and a glow version

ChrisM
'ffkiwi'

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Hi Jim, The Cox TD .09 was an awsome FF class A engine for me. I scaled up Lee Hines' Ramrod 250 design

to 450 sq"s. The entire model minus fuel weighed 12 ozs. I won a lot of class A FF contests with that model;

I even briefly set the Class A national record during a Flyoff with Ron Young and his 600 Texan. Then Ron

beat my time on his last flight, 10 minutes after I posted my time. Lee Hines' Ramrod 250 was a correction

to Ron St Jeans Ramrod 250 version, because St Jean made a mistake in scaling down to 250s" size. This

mistake was never corrected in the magazine or kit version. I'm guessing this was around 1966. So, like

the MVVS, the Cox TD had similar qualities, both are light and both put out excellent power(for the time).

Tony

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

There's something about the TD .09 that is just .... honest. Hard to put a finger on it.

But Dayyamn are they loud.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Loud, I always thought the old Arden .09 was very noisy.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I would like to see a peformance and weight comparison between the PARRA Wasp 1.5 cc ABC diesel and the FORA 1.5 cc ABC diesel

http://www.hobbyclub.com/product_inf...oducts_id=1062

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I expect they would be pretty close, but not having the ability to put a muffler on the Fora makes it worthless to me where I live.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I would hope the Fora is better.  The numbers posted earlier were about the same as my AP .09 and LA .10 on glow with no muffler using the 7"-4p.  I am still looking for an excuse to try a diesel again.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Aspeed want to try diesel again??? Just get a David diesel head for the LA 10 mininum bucks invested too you already have the engine

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I could make my own too. It would be more fun. I wonder how the push/pull head works. I had a Frog .15 as a kid that went great but I could never start it. All the team race locals thought it was great but I couldn't even restart it.I keep getting .10's and .15's at swap meets for next to nothing now that the leckies are so good. I likely have 10 or 15 scattered around the basement. they are usually like $20 and sometimes are new.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I'd guess that you were running your AP 09, and LA on venturi's much bigger than 2.7 or 3.3mm?

A clubmate is running a Fora 15 Junior mk 2 diesel as a glow and finds it much faster then his Cox Conquest.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Here is my AP 09 with a diesel head made by A J Coholic circa 2005-2006 , the first one I returned because of low compression, they sent me a new one ( hobby people)
think we were getting around 10K Plus on a 9x4 or 9x5 as a guess idle maybe a bit less than 4000 instant response to WOT, It never saw glow fuel maybe
20 minutes or so on bench martin



I will re run this one in a day or two and get the numbers

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I just ran the LA and AP on MA 7-4" props with no mufflers. The AP .15 I found really responded to a bigger control line carb, and the muffler really hurt the .15. The AP .09 the muffler was only 15,200 to 16,900 change. The LA .10 was 16,200 to 17,500 and then 18,000 with a closer headspace.(,005" shim) I was getting bored over the winter and tried all my little stuff, and wrote it down. I made new stingers for the AP .09 and .15 and it made a big difference especially the .15. I made the hole almost 6mm to still be legal for F2D and the rpm went from 13,300 to 15,500 compared to open exh. at 15,700. A bigger carb.(.240" it went 17,200)The .15 was on a 7-5" MA. The 7-4" was 21,400.It is easy to just unscrew the stinger on the muffler than make a new stinger and tap the muffler... Does the AP crank hold up to the diesel? I have been warned today about converting glow to diesel. I was quite impressed with the AP for a $35 motor. I think it will need a new rod soon though, I was kind of over revving it with a F2D prop and it is pretty clunky now. They were the stock RC carbs. .166" and .180" or about 4mm and 4.5mm for the OS LA.They both have a spigot sticking through too.Since I am writing down numbers. My Conquest was 19,500 and the Fora.15 was 20,500 and the ASP .15 17,600, all with 10% nitro and the same 7-5 MA prop with no muffler.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

will mess around with a couple of props for about 12K the rod is bushed and beefy so should be no issue also engine seemed pretty quiet martin

just looked my post from 8/292010

10x5 wood zinger 8200
9x4 wood zinger 9500
8x4 black MAS 14000

idle around 3000

Fuel Davis 1/2A The quality of these varies took me 2 tries to get good ones issue in both was poor compression but after exchanges finally ok

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Wow, a 10-5" on an .09.  That's almost as big as a plane!

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Aspeed no surprise since diesel has at least a 30% power increase over glow many more BTUs in Kero/vs/ methanol the 10 size prop at 8200 interesting number but you need at least 10K of rpm in most plane it will fly at 8000 but may not get off the ground (at least grass at that rpm) big increase in thrust in 2000RPM from 8 to 10K

But it does prove a point

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Where does this 30% power increase claim come from Martin?

Any evidence?

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Gazimoto the 30% is a typo should be 20% based on 135000 BTU/gallon of kerosene JP8 and #2 diesel close, methanol about 111500 martin

run a diesel at night no muffler no viable flame complete burn, glow you have flame out the port , loss there too, all fuel not burned on power stroke

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I have never seen any flame, but on cox engines one would see the glow plug glow.

I think methanol doesn't show any flame, that's why it is so dangerous in the pit lane of Formula One etc. A synthetic oil might burn visably though, I guess.

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

MR COX I did notice it on one of my 40s it was dark and was quite visable , no not shooting out the port but you could see it at the edge, I would conclude that it was not complete combustion of the intake charge, thus a power waste this may be the reason or at least one of them for our fuel economy of diesel/VS/ glow

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

JUst RE RAN THE AP HORNET 09 WOOD ZINGER DAVIS 1/2a GOT 12500 idle 3500 instant response to WOT martin

wood zinger 8x4

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

I don't think you can reasonably compare the BTU/US Gallon of Kero and Methanol as a measure of the relative power of Diesel/Glow engines, even if it's the same engine.

I did some bench tests with a Diesel Parra 15 a while ago. This comes with a Nelson glow head button as well. Comparing it in both configurations all else except the fuel unchanged, I got exactly similar RPM results.

The diesel fuel was standard Oliver Tiger Brew and the glow 10% nitro, 20% Castor and the rest Methanol.


This is also my observation with the Fora 15 mk2 which is also simply converted between diesel and glow allowing a direct performance comparison to be made.



I suspect there is a power increase on a big R/C glow when a conversion head is fitted but I'd say it may have a lot to do with an increase in compression over standard.

Careful skimming of OS 25 FX and Irvine 25 glow heads to increase compression and to set the squish heights at optimum also results in a considerable increase in performance.

It's been well known for a while that the average standard r/c glow engines "out of the box" is set undercompressed for safety.

Ray

RE: New 09 Diesel
 

Surely it's a bit more complicated than that?! For starters, diesel fuel has a much lower proportion of kero than glow fuel has of methanol/nitro, plus a diesel generally burns its fuel at a lower rate. I'm a great fan of my diesels, but I don't think a straight comparison of BTU/gal is valid if you're trying to draw any conclusions about relative power.