aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Sig run can you not get your clubmates and others to pressure one of your hobby suppliers to have a fuel made up? I think on a percentage basis there are more diesel folks there than here in the US maybe a bunch of emails to one of them might have an effect
I really think a group effort is need to make it happen martin

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

G'day dd

No commercial fuel available any more. Not that it makes any real difference, as it was useless to anyone running performance diesels anyway.

Model diesel fuel demand is insufficient to make it commercially viable here, and regulations (transport, handling, distribution) really put the nail in the pricepoint coffin for other than free flight .049 occasional nostalgia flyers.

I used to do the obtaining and brewing for my mates/club, but not only is it an unappreciated and loathsome task, I have to buy ether in volume (20 litres) to make cost effective. Noxious and dangerous handling it. Hardest and most expensive to get are the ignition improvers required for high performance (& RPM) TBRs.

Have had other crisis induced priorities this year, so leaving it to others with the mojo ....zero result. I don't have the will, energy or time right now and recognise that. Just easier to go with the flow and go glow for now.

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

I can verify what Sigrun has advised.

Go into your friendly local LHS in our wide brown land and ask for model diesel fuel - and watch the eyes cloud over in bewilderment.

Problem 1. It's home brew only if you are a diesel enthusiast in Australia. Problem 2. Ether here is diabolically expensive. Problem 3. Due to it's use in sinister activities, it is very difficult to get now anyway.

IPN or Amyl Nitrate? Impossible.

I have heard that in EU Europe methanol will shortly become a controlled substance. So Gl*w is also on borrowed time there.

There is a reason why Electric is growing rapidly - even in F3A. And it's not just technology.

fiery

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

WOW no methanol last year I made up some glow fuel with denatured alcohol "denatured spirits as they call it I think in the Uk just to try, it it works but believe t contains up to 5% water so after run oil is a must used as a shellac thinner and alcohol stoves Does this mean gasoline ignition will make a comeback right now CH ignitions systems are about $ 200, more than the price of most of our engines way too much money and a hassel with more stuff in the plane at least in the 15 to 90s maybe they can come up with a permit system so they know we are not cooking up drugs really would be helpful with ether martin

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

i Just checked with an Aussie model fuel manufacturer, (Pro-Glow, a subsidiary of Lion Electronics), who are the only one I know of who recently carried pre-mix diesel. The comments about "product" refers to one of their lower oil ball race engine diesel fuels.

Here is the response:

Quote:

"I am sorry to have to advise that it has become too hard due to regulations so we have elected to discontinue this product.

The problem is that it costs around $2,000 to get a dangerous goods carton approved and then it would have to be for say a minimum of 12 bottles. Most stores would use or sell around 2 bottles a year so the exercise is futile.

No company to our knowledge can legally ship this product and further no company can legally sell an individual the ingredients (unless they carry the appropriate poisons licences) to make their own.

Sorry but this product would seem to have been legislated or regulated out of economical existence"

End Quote.


So, as Sigrun said, no more readily obtainable diesel fuel in Australia [:@] . I must get on to my pharmacist friend, who I am sure can supply me some ether. But I am afraid all those great old (and new!) diesels many others have are unlikely to roar in anger ever again. If people can't buy it from their hobby store, most won't bother.

fiery

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

I've been making my own diesel fuel for some time now ( since the commercially made stuff disappeared from my LHS ), the castor and kero are easy to get, and one of my daughters works in a pharmacy. The chemist there knows a bit about model planes has agreed to sell me ether, 500ml. at a time. Forget the recognised additives, impossible to buy. Someone on another thread mentioned methyl ethyl ketone peroxide could be used. Apparently it is a fibreglass resin catalyst. Anyone tried it?

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

I am using MEK peroxide hardener for fibreglass, works well.

If ether are difficult to buy there in Australia, you can use start gas who has Ethylene ether. I has tried "Turtle Wax" start gas and works well. Set the spray bottle in refrigator in some hours and then empty all fluid in the glass bottle. Be careful, do not smell ether..[sm=spinnyeyes.gif][sm=bananahead.gif][sm=spinnyeyes.gif]. Then, now you has ether in bottle.

Jens Eirik

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Hi Motorboy. what % MEKP are you using? Give a fuel mix for 1 litre diesel fuel for 1.5 c.c. P.A.W. plain bearing control line engine. Also, would nitro methane, as used in glow engines for more power, work in diesel fuel?

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

I am adding the MEKP not more than 3%, if overdone %, the engine will run hotter and difficult to regulate compression screw more correct. MEKP reducing ignition lag and need less compression.

Diesel fuel for 1.5 c.c. P.A.W.
25% Castor oil
40% Kerosene or autodiesel
33% Ether
2% MEKP

Jens Eirik

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Thanks Motorboy, I'll mix some tomorrow and see what happens. What are your thoughts on the nitro methane?

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

No, can not use nitromethane in dieselfuel...

Jens Eirik

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Jens already noted, MEKP is fine and what I use too, although it is not preferred. (Dr. diesel's diary tells me that while burning it produces acids that can eat away you engine [>:] . My engines look fine after a couple of liters of fuel.

My local chemist flew CL (diesels) in his younger years (as i did too, but glow) and offered to sell me larger quantitys of ether too.

Jens formula is fine, although I use less oil (15%) and more kerosene (50%). Ball bearings only though.

Best of luck

Knarf

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Peroxides are very reactive chemicals if you store your engine any period of time a good straight Kero flush might be an idea
folllowed by your favorite after run oil
you also got my intrest up just pulled the back plate of my irvine 40 diesel runs on davis abc fuel remaining oil sooty black
but no rust it never saw after run oil

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Ok Aussies, I just visited my local John Deer Tractor ( Toowoomba )agent and purchased 3 of 7oz cans of there 80% either starting fluid. Price ? not bad A$13.50 for the 3 cans 21oz total
Stewart

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Hey, that's not bad at all!

I have been moribund in getting my:

* MVVS .61D (only ever used with gl*w head on - I must do penance!) and .49 with DDD conversion head (still unrun)

* Irvine .40D (still NIB)

* ASP .32 and .46 's with Cairns Conversion heads (well worn from use in the mid '90's)

going due to the ether problem. If it was going to be big $$$$ for a piddly little canister, which would supply enough fuel mix for two 8 Oz tanks or so, why bother?

However, at say 30% of the mix, these numbers add up! Kero's cheap and I have litres of castor oil lying around since I got into petrol and started flying big 'uns.

Could be I'll get back into the oily rag club soon! I kind of miss the ease of the .40 to .60 size 'craft. I must see who the local John Deere agent is in the Fraser Coast region.

Cheers

fiery

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

This problem also is now extending to cold tablets and lithium batterys the A holes are using too at last commerical fuel is usless to them martin

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Its a ridiculous situation really, I cant buy ether from my local chemist- not because he wont sell it too me, but because his suppliers don't carry it anymore!
I can get a 20litre drum via my local car parts store , He used to be a modeler and still has contacts ------- BUT what would I do with 20 litres, it would evaporate befor I used 20% of it, plus the cost at once.
DAMMMMMM Druggies
Stewart

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

SGC, Fiery and others in Qld

I realise distance may be a problem and don't want to oversimplify things, but can't you blokes get together and buy a 20l drum of ether and share it out.
Decant it in the open through a syphon hose into suitable tin cans or bottles and the risk and loss factor is virtually nil.
Keep it under the house in the coolth and you are set. Mix up fuel only as required.
No doubt it is even possible to buy IPN in Brisbane.

Forget all the doomsayers and get on with running your diesels and have some fun!
cheers
Dave

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Good suggestion David

I've PM'd Stewart to say I'm up for it.

I expect anyone else in SE Qld could join in too.

I must get back into diesels - by far the greatest 'fun' factor of any engine IMO. I just loved the looks on the gl*w boys faces as you calmly started up, no leads attached, and they wondered what that odd exhaust scent was! And as for the 'count the blades' idle, that always left them amazed.

At my club, most of the younger 'ARF' bred modellers don't even know diesels exist!

Regards

fiery

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Then don't.

Here's the reality from an alternative point of view. It ain't no fun jumping through the "are you a drug lord, terrorist or just a sexual pervert?" spotlight to buy it. Neither is transporting a 20 litre explosive device which hardly needs a detonator across town in the car. Wonder why even most of the DG approved carriers won't touch it!?!

But before all of that, the elusive 'someone else' is always expected to put up the money up front for purchase. Once you've done that, the usual beggers will miraculously appear wanting their pre-decanted ½ litre for next to nothing insisting "but I only paid 2/-6d a pint last time!".

Liaising with the others to buy 20 litres of industrial ether is a PITA. Been there done that. Who could be bothered! eg: "I'll take half-a-litre for my Mills 0XX!" Yer, right!

Decanting it in the backyard is a not only inarguably unpleasant and associated with considerable risk (read the SDS), but you do lose more than a mite through natural evaporation, and there's ALWAYS the ***** who wants to argue the missing millilitres from his portion if you cost & divvy it up prior to purchase rather than belately and onsell the natural loss. And then there's the one you simply can't convince that ether is so molecularly active it will migrate through the sealed plastic container he supplied and insists you use, then the next day or week accuses you of selling him short!

Now just where does one obtain DII, IPN or heaven and the law forbid, amyl? Short of begging supply from a luckier scrounger who will part with a misuscule portion of his potion for as inversly exaggerated a price, just where precisely do you suggest either of the former two might actually be reliably and affordably obtainable in Brisbane? As for even the non-ripoff price when one can source some from a magnanimous visiting Victorian, it simply sinks regular diesel use for anyone runnng other than a PB lugging along circa 9-11k.

Except for the remaining of the FF brigade and the few C/L obstinates running PB .09s or smaller for whom a ½ litre of ether equates to a 3 year supply, obtaining, decanting, and paying for the ingredients for diesel fuel today is anything but "fun!". In fact, I can think of few things less distasteful in aeromodelling....

Diesels have (sadly) long since passed into a pragmatism induced oblivion. Obtaining suitable fuel is simply too unpleasant and abortively expensive an exercise. Neither of these attributes enjoin to make the diesel experience "fun!", nor is obtaining, decanting and mixing ether anything like the complete low risk no-brainer that decanting methanol is.

Understandably, the sensible solution now is not to bother.

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

You folks "down under" can solve the problem as stated before by just using the John Deere starting fluid it is 80% ether
and I would guess no more than $3.00 a can and from what I gather available down there this is only a guess but with the heptane
in it maybe you do not even need ignition improver just castor and kero. At least here in the USA we do not have the hassel since
we can get the premix diesel fuel martin

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Dan

Buying quantities of starter fluid may lead to 'interest' from law enforcement officials. No wonder diesels are becoming a more difficult proposition outside the US and UK, where fortunately you can still buy pre-mix fuel.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...00-124&invol=2

All rather depressing. However, I've contacted Stewart (SGC) and he is looking into a bulk buy though legit channels. I would prefer not to have any detectives knocking on my door as a result of pursuing my harmless hobby - not that I've anything to hide!

fiery

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

********* Druggies (Exp. Deleted) very sad state of affairs Maybe some one should "Leak that cyanide works well too It would be their
last "high" martin
On the same note I use zylol (xylene) to thin my epoxy from the hardware store you guessed it now these morons sniff and inhale it for a high prehaps you guys could get together and your drug agencies could issue a purchaser permit for the legal hobby and industrial
use after all gun permits are required here

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

To make my Diesel Fuel in New Zealand i approached the Importers of Diethyl Ether and managed to get 25L. I got the info from the "Yellow Pages."[ i signed a Declaration]

With regards to IPN i approached Biolab and they arranged for 500ml to come in from OZ.


Ray

RE: aussie dieselfuel problems
 

Stone the crows. Hot pies and tomato sauce. With diesels, I thought I was on my "Pat Malone" down under, even in Queensland. I'm back into diesels after running with glow for a long time. Still have venerable diesels from 45 odd years ago. (All still run, but use castor oil. The new generation diesels include an Irvine 40, ASP diesel conversion, and 2 ASP 91 diesel conversions. Chasing pre-mix diesel fuel? Been down that road. Located 2X 1 litre premix diesel fuel 200 klm away. Arrived in thin plastic bottles (as is Metho and kero at the grocery store). Gawd knows how old they were. Take the cap off, no "kick". Ether, guess it all went out the window. To those here in Queensland, I would be interested in being a party to the sharing of a 20 ltr drum of ether. Am prepared to travel to a central location. Have put my hands on 3.8 ltres of industrial ether (with availability the way it is, can never have enough). Also 9 ltrs of jet A fuel. Have no intention of using MEKP; read all about it, put the wind up me, moreso with grand kids around. Am set with diesel fuel for a little while. In a recent Aussie model magazine, mention was made that OZZIE TRADERS, Victoria, are looking into making diesel fuel available. Here's hoping. Have also read that Methanol will be hard to access by modellers in Europe in the not too distant future. Perhaps the day is coming when all our flying is done on a flight simulator. Try as hard as I might, just can not become interested in electric powered flight. This is a wonderful web site. Please keep up the good work. Glen