RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Thanks for that link Greg.
I read it last night and there is some very interesting stuff contained in that article. I need to print it out and go through it again (and again...)

Reg

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

I posted this in the fuel forums but it fits here also...

I was at the I-Hobby Expo in Chicago today. Nothing out of the ordinary. Lots of car stuff, electric stuff, and other stuff (trains, plastics) I'm not into. So, I walk into the Great Planes booth. There is a display case with OS and Super Tigre glow engines but nobody behind it. I walk away and came back a few hours later. I wanted to handle the new FSa-56 and 81 so I asked somebody. A gentleman came over and opened up the case and we started talking.

I asked about the OS .55 BioEthanol. He said it's a Japanese thing. They are environmentally conscious and do things like that even though it doesn't make monetary sense. He said it works fine, but the problem with importing it to the US is the fuel. Apparently, OS's fuel is such that it would be taxed as consumable alcohol, there is nothing added to denature it and I guess it would be very easy to remove the oil. He said the ethanol was pure. So the chances of this engine making it to the US market is some between zero and none.

We continued to talk about engines and I mentioned converting the OS four strokes to diesel. He said he's done it for a UAV application. He said they used a spark ignition to get it started and then it was run as a diesel. We talked about Walbro carbs, and changing needle tapers in two needle carbs to account for the differences in fuel. He told me that he would get Jet-A at an airport instead of other sources of kerosene and it was much easier to start. It was an interesting talk and I forgot to get a card from him.

I talked with a glow plug manufacturer about ethanol. He said that it's just and issue of the right heat range.

There is a new exclusive importer for NovaRossi. This might be nice for those into high performance engines. Also www.mscompositusa.com might be picking up the Webra engine line, they only had a few on display.

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Thanks Greg, for the tip re ethanol glow plugs. That's going to come in handy. [8D]

Here in the city, while it still wasn't easy, I managed to get denatured ethanol along with commercial batches of Biodiesel. It was my intent to mix and mess with all of the volatiles we use in that glow fired, adjustable compression Norvel .15 that I have.

The summer's running season is just about over though for this year but next year, it's going to be fun. I've acquired six .15s in various states of new to totally baffed. With real conrods and spare pistons, I'm going to have lots of opportunity test a dozen or more combinations of fuel mixes, with glow, and without. What if all it takes is 10% methanol (or ethanol) to make glow assisted diesel to work. We might find advantages we didn't know were available.

Stuntguy,

I had got the ethanol to play with just to try making it work as a regular glow motor. But as I said above, your comment has inspired me to take that further. Thanks for that. :D

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

A couple of interesting links on glow fuel:

This one is a good reference on glow fuel as seen from a team racers perspective:

http://www.dkd.net/clmodels/glowfuel.html

This one is about some experimenting done with Ethanol and other alternative fuel and fuel additives:

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~smit...elopments.html

Good reading both with some overlap onto some of the discussions in this thread.


cheers, Graham

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ok....great job with this topic. Although I must admit, I read up to page 11 and then started to "move" forward. I soon found out this baby was over 39 pages long!!!!!!!!!!! I just don't have the time to read that long.

But, in a nutshell, give us guys(and gals?) an update. Have you found a magic mixture or not? Are you close?!

I just recently became interested in diesels myself. Found Davis Diesel Development and sent an email. Reply was for me to call. So I did.....NOT what I expected! The guy kept interupting me, wasn't listening to what I was saying nor did he really care what I had to say, on and on and on about OS is a great engine and the rest are junk. This really stumped me. I sure don't treat my customers this way.

But one thing he said that stuck in my mind.....and when I found this forum tonight.....I just had to comment. I, finally, interrupted HIM and was saying the reason for my interest in diesel was cause the nearest hobby shop is a 2 hour drive and I could probably be easier for me to come up with the ingredients to make my own fuel.......at this point, I am QUICKLY interrupted(again) and told," You will NEVER be able to make you own diesel fuel"! Then he carrys on and on and on about how I must've been to RCUniverse(not yet.....but I'm here NOW), John Deere ether, etc., etc., etc..........basically, you guys(here on RCU and everywhere else) are idiots and you'll never find a blend that works. Only the fuel he blends/sells will work.

Parting words were that I should "think it over and buy something that you can fit an OS engine into it for the diesel conversion". Of course, I should point out that I am looking to run a diesel R/C truck(Mini MGT 3.0 with an .18).

I commend you guys for your efforts and wish you success in your endeavor. I only wish I had the time to tinker with this subject as well for I would be trying to help figure out how to make Mr. Davis eat his words! Again, good luck to you all. We are anticipating great things from you guys.

Sincerely,

Ob1n of RCU

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Ed,
I beleive Mr Davis may have been correct when refering to car engines , the .18 and .21's in some brands are noted for conrod failures so have no chance as a diesel, and to get the high revs with good throttle responce would take a special fuel blend nothing like what we use in aircraft.
Hmmmmm who wasnt listening to whom ?
Stewart

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

My experience with diesels was virtually nil until I was forced to play with stinky fuel by Raj in Singapore and Tom Anderson in the US. Both wanted me to cobble up throttles for various Mills replicas. At first I balked then got intrigued. My previous attempts at diesel were on TD .049 conversions and Davis fuel. That was the stuff you bought in a quart can and then you mixed in an equal amount of kerosene. I never got more than a pop or two out of that poor ole, Cox engine.

So after attaching throttles to a Mills replica, naturally I had to learn how to start one so that I could test how well a modern, two needle throttle, on an old, steel/iron, sideport Mills would work. By this time the Internet was around and SMALLnet was populated by a multitude of accomplished (mature) modellers and many were diesel fans. Here and elsewhere, I learned that you could mix pretty good fuel. But before that, at a funfly in a distant city, I actually MET a stinky fuel fan and he donated a quart of honest to gosh diesel fuel. His blend was composed of Jet-A, lab grade ether, castor and the magic, amyl nitrate.

At home, I spent some three hours to get that Mills going. Once I had it all tuned up, it idled forever and throttle response was instant. I was amazed at the sound without a muffler along with the fuel economy. After that, it took only a few flips to get it started.

Several years later, I was converting very modern Norvels and having a lot of fun.

My success with conversions and modern, small engines hinged on one thing. LOTS of ether in the fuel, as much as there was kerosene, a blend of 39% ether, 39% kerosene, 20% castor and 2% ignition improver. MEKP worked well enough but the icing was the use of Amsoil cetane booster. Lots of folks helped out in getting to that point.

The thing is, I always had very good throttling, seemingly no matter what engine I used. Ether is hard to get and expensive. Playing with the ether content bit by bit revealed that the more ether, the easier the engine started. The more the ether, the better the engine throttled.

This is why. The less ether, the higher the compression you need to start the engine when cold. As the engine warms up, you need to back off on the compression. If you're running flat out, this is not a problem. However, if you throttle back, the engine cools and now demands a higher compression setting. That can't be easily done on the fly and now your idle and transition suffers. A high enough ether content allows a start at a lower compression setting. This setting now becomes more ideal at lower throttle and cooler engine temps. This characteristic of ether, compression ignition, is carried to the extreme with fixed compression diesels. They require an all ether/oil fuel. No kerosene in sight.

Stewart is correct about possible rod failures in car engines as they typically use only 12% or less oil content and typically, that is a synthetic oil. If you're going to try diesel in a car, that's something that will have to be worked out. At one time, early in my diesel adventure, I posted that diesels are designed to run slow with big props at large torque. I got promptly and rightly corrected that diesels can spin it up and surpass even glow if they had to. I proved that one day with a Brodak .06 conversion. I switched from the usual 8 X 4 prop to a 5 X 3 and once that little guy lit up, it WAILED. By the time I got the tach to it, the crank blew. But man did it wail. My ear for high RPM speculates 22K or more. Never did that again, must try it on a Norvel.

I've been flying homemade diesel fuel for ten years. If not for being able to make it, there is no way I could be flying diesel at all. In fact, with no hobby shop for 200 miles, it's easier for me to fly diesel than glow as far as fuel availability goes.

This formula WORKS.

John Deere ether, 39%
Hardware kerosene, 39%
Klotz Benol castor 20%
Amsoil cetane booster 2%

This formula allows for easy starts and excellent throttling as long as that's what you get on glow. As well, the needle settings on glow will be close to what diesel will demand. This makes it far easier to get going, at first, without breaking anything. Diesels ARE more sensitive to hydraulic lock but you can also do that with glow. If you always never flood your engine, you'll do fine. Two drops into the intake is all the prime you need. Pretty much guaranteed once you find your compression and needles.

The reason this thread was started was to stimulate discussion by showing that ether wasn't essential to RUN diesel, just that it was essential if you were trying to hand start. As illustrated on YouTube, a number of times, with a variety of engines, http://ca.youtube.com/profile_videos...=hopeso&page=3 if you use an electric starter, an etherless fuelled engine WILL start. A high ether prime can help a lot though.

If you try this in a car, I'm speculating that you may have to cut back on the heat sink head. Pure compression ignition depends a lot on heat. Run too cool and you MAY run into problems. However, here, http://video.google.ca/videoplay?doc...arch&plindex=1 I fly in the winter with an engine that has had some cooling fin area cut back. This was done because the Norvels have far more fin diameter than standard engines. Since the video was taken though, I've flown stock Norvels in the winter, on diesel, with no problems at all.

My experience with a high ether fuel is that once the compression and needles are set for the day, you really don't have to play with them anymore, much like a glow engine. Ether seems to act a lot like nitro in small engines.

If you fly as well as drive, you can get limbered up first on an aircraft engine. That might make the learning curve somewhat flatter.

What brand of .18 are you working with? Can you post a picture?

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Another point. You may be able to get away with far less ether. Throttle response in car engines is primo. Over the years, I've found that engine timing, porting and factors OTHER than throttle design have a lot to do with good throttling. Those that make car engines also know this I'd guess and along with two needle throttles they seem to have nailed it pretty good. That just may translate into the possibility of using much less ether than we're accustomed to.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Andy,
The Rod failures Ive read about arent lube related but due to the loads imposed by the high speed direction changes - they snap!
Re the ether I tend to think it may need to stay around 39% to get good throttling also with carefull use of high nitrate content 2.5-3% to get the rapid acceleration needed, no dought Davis has had many headaches getting it right and deservs to be heard on the subject. Diesels in cars is a whole new feild, vastly different to our aircraft engines which "typically" run in the 8-14,000 RPM range.
Stewart

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Ah, can we assume that the rod failures then, are due to seriously high rpm under light loads? Ever throw a prop and the engine keeps running and winds up something awful? I've always wondered what might happen if you didn't kill the engine under such a situation.

In any case, the rod failures are with glow fuel, so is it due to poor rod design at the get go? Like Norvel rods? Perhaps the solution is to just pop in an OS rod as I'm doing on some Norvels?

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

On the car engines Davis deserves a lot of credit he now has a high strenght rod I believe for Traxxax bushed both ends oil holes a call or e mail to him will confirm the exact engines
even if you never convert the engine to diesel this is a great upgrade. Its really nice when a needed product is developed to solve a problem

This is not the first time he has done this he has had a high strength HD crank for years to solve the snapped cranks in the cox which saw lot of use in mouse racing
and a new one in in RanD for the cox also martin

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

" Ah, can we assume that the rod failures then, are due to seriously high rpm under light loads "


Andy heres a pic of an .18 car engine I bought to convert to aircraft use- my son likes em fast :0, I think it may only spin a toothpick prop up to its stated max RPM's, I may look at dropping the liner to tame the timeing ?
Stewart

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Short stroke, rated to run up to 40K. Kind of the opposite of traditional diesel design. However, that's not to say it wouldn't make a great diesel. Long strokes have longer dwell time at TDC. Does this make them better diesels? Does it matter? How DOES dwell time affect engine performance?

The engine makers have engineers doing what they do best. I suppose what we see on the market is optimized for the purpose. Still, what if, and all that.

No question that Davis is a genius of sorts. A tad energetic though, but that may be just his phone personality. I know that if I'm feeling pressured for time in a conversation, I tend to blurt and overstate my case. Don't know but do know that he comes across too often rather abrasively. Ob1n certainly got put off. I kind of thought that our efforts here, and input, and general interaction would have been appreciated. What if MORE folks got into diesel BECAUSE they could make their own fuel. Wouldn't that mean more engines and heads sold? None of US are making any money off of our efforts to help and inform and promote the cause.

Are races lost due to blown plugs? Might a diesel car engine have a significant advantage? Car guys aren't afraid to tinker to win races. Why not mix your own fuel?

There seems to be far too much mystique around diesel, and that drives people away. It did for me, for a very long time.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Good heavens ! Someone has woken the thread up again :)

I have seen numerous comments online from those who have similar experiences as you did, either by phone or email.

Homebrew fuel.... it's all been done before, many times over the years.

Basically.... ether, kerosene and a decent lubricant plus just a couple of % of ignition improver will give you the basic ingrediaents for a model diesel fuel. There is no "black magic" involved, the main U.K supplier of model fuels even puts the percentages used in their mix on their website.
Check out modeltechnics.co.uk to see the percentages used.

High ether 30% , or more,will give easy starts, cool running and good throttling.

A lower ether mix of 15% will also start fairly easily will run pretty cool and will give good throttling, or it did in all the PAW engines I have tried it in.

You can run without any ether at all BUT.... starting requires 2 or 3 primes with a high ether fuel and compression and needle settings are a bit more "touchy" to set up.

The big problem I found with very low, or non-ether fuels, was increased exhaust noise. The increased kerosene content causes the engine and thus the exhaust gases to be a lot hotter.

A simple test.... get a small quantity of commercial model diesel fuel. Dilute it with extra kerosene to reduce the ether content to 15% while also adding the correct quantity of castor oil, or 20W50 engine oil to keep the oil content at 24% or so. Now give it a try !Be prepared to be pleasantly surprised.

I have started converting my planes to electric power, the reason ? Cost of model diesel fuel here in the U.K. It has gone up by $7 a 1/2 gallon in the last couple of months. It will become increasingly expensive and then difficult to obtain.

I am keeping some of my diesel engines but I do believe that the days of the diesel are numbered, apart from a dwindling number of die-hards. Glow engines are also coming under increasing pressure due to the noise of most two strokes.

Reg

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-------------


You may very well be right, SGC.

I apologize to Mr. Davis. Pain pills and caffeine had not kicked in yet.


Ed Cregger

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Basically, what Mr. Davis said as per our phone conversation was that any engine can be converted to diesel. And that the .18-.21 size engines are not the only ones ," that are junk". He said that," Using our fuel is that only way to get any model diesel to run properly and follow our instructions". So.....technically, according to Mr. Davis, it has nothing to do with being a car/truck/plane engine. Just as long as you use his fuel and do what he says.......it'll run as a diesel. Of course, he kept mentioning that OS engines are the best cause, " are Japanese made". I had mentioned that OS was actually owned by Great Planes......he quickly "corrected" me and told me that it was Japanese owned and they, "had no reason to sell." Funny, cause one of GP's exclusive product lines is OS Engines......and I don't see a japanese version of the website. And, isn't is vaguely familiar(website format) with all other exclusive GP brands?!

As for the engines being different in cars/planes. Well, to a point. But, they both initially start out as a Glow. The car typically has a bigger cooling head, extra needle adjustment, an air cleaner......maybe a different exhuast. That being said, however, they are essentially the same. I can make an airplane motor run in a car and vice versa if necessary without much effort. But, according to Bob Davis.......as long as you follow his instructions and use HIS fuel.......anything will run as expected. No matter if it's a plane, boat, heli, car or truck! I admit.....there is usually more throttling up and down in cars/trucks/boats. But......I've seen aerobatic fliers throttle up and down more than backyard bashers! And we can ask many people(including Mr. Davis) who will claim that a diesel can produce any RPM that a glow engine can when set up right(and using HIS fuel).....plane OR car.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Cool Id, by the way.....the name says it all! Anyway, Mr. Davis did ramble on about how Traxxas rods were breaking, etc.. and how he is making HD ones to counter that. "We can justify doing that cause there are hundreds of thousands of Traxxas vehicles out there." I commented, "Yeah, they(Traxxas) are pretty good". I meant that Traxxas does, generally, make a good product. He immediate response was, " Nobody said anything about Traxxas being good"! What kind of crock-assed comment was that?! That was the tone to the entire 30 minute conversation we had. Everything I said.....if I even got a word "in" to begin with.....was like the stupidest thing a person could've said and he was gonna let me know about it. Yes.....even "knockin" guys like us here on the forums trying to figure out the best way to make fuel. "Those guys on the forums will tell you this and that.....but they don't know anything about making fuel. You can't get the ingredients".

However.....I will say that Mr. Davis DOES deserve some credit. After all, he is in the business of model diesels and has been for a while, right? That would make him a pioneer, right? But, Hitler's era pioneered the VW Beetle(The People's Car) and he wasn't exactly a role model either! Oh crap......because of that comment.....here comes the freaking "rain"!!!! My point is.....just because you are a pioneer and been around a while doesn't make you the smartest. The attitude on the phone was....."I've been doing this forever....therefore, you know nothing, what you have to say is unimportant, and if you want to have a diesel....then listen ONLY to me for I know everything there is to know".

But, like I said, I'll give him some credit.....but if he keeps up the attitude. No one will be listening to him.

Ob1n of RCU

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First of all, Andy.....this is a GREAT forum of a very interesting topic. I commend you for choosing it and putting sooooooooo much R&D into it. If I had the time and money....I'd be doing some research myself(more on that later).

The Associated Mini MGT 3.0 is what I am working with......seen here.

http://teamassociated.com/ae/mmgt/mmgt_home.htm

I have the original MGT.....but want to go with a small one because of my track that I have is smaller. I, too, have a problem getting Nitro fuel because of my location and that is my interest in diesel power. According to Mr. Davis in our phone call.....the engine in this truck is, " most likely Thunder Tiger......made in Tiawan. Which, of course, means it is junk". Then he tried to tell me that Associated had been bought out by a foreign company. Last I knew they were still in California. I do not know the facts....but that doesn't seem right with me. Especially after the OS engine story he gave me. He also kept telling me that, " we do not make, nor will we ever, make a .12 diesel conversion". I kept saying," Great.....cause the engine in this truck is a .18 size". He still kept telling me he couldn't help me with my, " .12 sized engine". ???!!!!

Seems since I've posted on this forum about Bob Davis.......I've gotten a surprising amount of IMs from several people about having the same problems. So.....he is a pioneer.....that we all can agree on. But, I think it's safe to say he's not very good with customer service when things "go bad". I mean, hey.......even I admit.....diesel is NOT for everybody......at least, not yet.

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Ob1n ,
Homebrew fuel isnt difficult, but there are some pitfalls No1 being all ether isnt the same. What I mean is there are different grades and some arent suitable for our diesel fuel, in particular anesthetic ether can commonly have ethanol in it in varying proportions and ethanol supresses diesel combustion as its low cetain and high octain , the exact opposite of what we want. I have had a bottle of anesthetic ether with high ethanol content and my engines refused to start, the fuel made great weed killer tho.
Technical or lab grade ether is pure ether and is the best to use, as is the JD starting fluid(must be made useing lab ether), solvent ether can also have other solvents mixed in that may be undesireable too.
The next pitfall is in useing alternative oils to castor, in particular synthetics and mineral motor oils as these may contain combustion inhibitors in order to extend the crankcase life in 4st engines, so if going this rout be prepaired for some trial and error to find what brands/types work.
Kerosene,Jet A,lamp oil, light automotive pump diesel will work, with the first 3 being the better all round choice, auto diesel tends to be a little more difficult to get started and gives a darker exhaust.
Then its just a matter of mixing the ingrediants in the ratio to get your desired running/handling characteristics.
Stewart

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

I couldn't agree with you more!

WARNING.....the follow is my opinion and you may be shocked to know about it. Futhermore, it is not intended to insult, defame or put-down anyone.

I believe what Slope-soarer just said.......that there isn't any "black magic" to the fuel problem! In fact, in my opinion.....the FUEL isn't the problem. Based on info you've all put in this forum.....you've been able to run diesels on ALL different kinds of fuels/blends? Some were harder than others.......some were easier. That means that the fuel works......but, there is something else missing. Right?!

A little about me.......33yrs old and grew up in a family-based, agricultural potato process operation. "Hanged" around the shop ALL the time.....as it was close to the office(where my mother could observe me). I've been around tractors, trucks(big and small), ATVs, skid steer loaders, forklifts, harvesters, planters, irrigation motors/engines, company pickups.....I even raced competitively in high school with a 5.0 mustang(which I did all the tweaks). All power types I've been exposed to.....electric, propane, gasoline, diesel, kerosine and more. Went to Auto Tech school......I am now an ASE Certified Master Technician......spent 8 years in the Honda/Ford dealership experience and another 10 years in my own NAPA Auto/Diesel Care facility before I sold it to start something different.

Now you know my experience.......but that does NOT make me an expert.....but I believe I might know the key which you seek. Or at least some it. What do we know about diesels in the "real" world? They are 4 stroke. Does that mean 2 cycles can NOT be diesel? Not at all. I have NOT had hands-on wrenching experience with 2 stroke diesels.....but I've seen a couple. They are strong, very efficient and can give you the RPMs expected of a 2 cycle. Not the typical slow-turning 4 cycles we see dominating the roads today. But,.....what are we missing on the model diesels that IS a part of every "real" world diesel(that I've seen/experienced). Anybody?

High Pressure injection! I believe that proper fuel atomization is what you SHOULD be looking for. The US Army M1A Abrams tank can run on about any fuel in the world. But, when set up to run in "diesel" mode.......it'll run on anything "oily". Didn't someone mention earlier that the started their engine with WD40? Using an aerosol can as an "injector" and sprayed the "perfect, atomized" mixture at the right amount down the carb.....then they turned the motor over which had good compression and perfect heat......viola! BANG!!! I've seen some REALLY old irrigation motors up in the high-reaches of the sandhills that have been there a LONG time with crude, simple setups. They run on ANYTHING oily. However, you MUST keep the fuel clean! Of course, good fuel is better......but, if you atomize it properly, and squeeze it with some warm air. BANG! Diesel baby!

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

ob1n,
I agree direct injection is better , but current technology and price excludes it from our use, what modeler is going to pay $2000 or more for a model diesel ?

Further to our previouse low/no ether fuel discussion , it apears that Gordon Burford of Taipan fame was useing low/no ether fuel with vegitable oil lube back in the late 80s in his competion Old Timmer models to get longer engine runs from the alocated fuel, for the article go to Peter Burfords website and follow the links to Gordons PDF articles.
Stewart

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I'm writing in intervals so I don't get "timed out".

Anyway......am I the only one who has not witnessed the carbureted diesel? I've never seen one out here?!! Have you? They all have some sort of injection system. I can easily visualize the fuel(oily fuel, that is) slobbing it's way from the carburetor, down the intake, up into the combustion chamber. That's a lot like running polished heads on a carbureted drag racer. The fuel starts to "wet" on the smooth chambers of the runners. There isn't any small bumps to cause turbulence and keep the fuel suspended and continue to atomize it. However......polished runners and a direct-port injected engine......MAGIC horsepower numbers!

Let me use a common example.....at least, for us in North America. General Motors 6.2 liter diesel. I know of engines that are still going today......500,000 miles strong. Yet, they are very simple. A "converted" V8 which now has a gear drive for accurate cam timing, high compression heads, glow plugs and......that's right, an injection PUMP! But, since we only have 1 cylinder on our models(most of us).....we don't need an injection pump that "times" the right cylinder and the right time to fire. We just need pressurized fuel pushed through an injector that sprays it into a fine mist. Something that "oily" fuels have a hard time doing. Put that in the place of the carburetor. This will allow it to remained lubed by the fuel like a 2 cycle. But, if we direct-port inject it......we'll have to figure a way to lube the rest of the motor.

Whenever a customer comes in with a diesel.....particularly older diesels where the injection pump is the "heart" of the engine......and they tell me that it's missing or not running properly. It's 90% of the time a problem with the injector pump and/or injectors. Not always.....but often! Nowadays, with the 24v electronic injectors and other types of systems running the newer diesels.....I don't have people with "missing" or "rough" running problems. The most I have to do with newer systems is change that damn fuel filter with all the dirty fuel they are putting in. Older systems would run "easier" on that dirty stuff.....but, eventually, it'll catch up with you in wear and tear. Newer systems need clean fuel!

Anyway, this is just my take.....if it matters. I believe that if you find an injected diesel motor. You just found a motor that'll run on anything clean and oily providing you have good compression and it isn't frozen solid with ice! Like I said.....If I had some R&D money and a lot more time......I garuantee I'd be trying to fabricate some sort of injected diesel model. Then, after that........TURBO CHARGER!!!!!!!! Good bye Nitro methane FOREVER! That is......until they make battery for electrics that last all day......

Ob1n of RCU

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Believe me.....if they buy from Bob Davis........and I were to make a direct-injected diesel.......someone, trust me......someone.....will buy it. I've seen COUNTLESS times where people spend money on things that they DO NOT need and/or was thought to be "too expensive".

Besides.....if I figured this out.......I've got lots of relatives/contact in Asia to get this mass produced. I figured something like.......um......$100-$300 street price. That's just a guess......but a good guess based on what I am doing already. Then....to be able to run on anything oily(pump diesel, kerosine, WD-40, vegetable oil, french fry oil, etc.)?! Priceless!

Thanks for the link

Ob1n of RCU

RE: Substitute for Ether
 

Here in America......we have people who drive 3/4 to 1 ton Diesel pickups.......and they have an OFFICE job!!!!!! They don't even own a boat or camper for the weekend "getaways"!!!! So.....yeah....someone will buy it.....even if it's $5000.