FORA / CYCLON .15 powered speed plane
03-21-2014, 05:00 PM
#227
Sure hope there is enough fin there...!
03-21-2014, 05:37 PM
#228
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You design and build so quickly, it's like watching the "A team" put something together. 
If it goes half as fast as it looks you ought to be pleased with it.
As far as the fin, when your going for maximum performance you got to accept your on the razors edge. It looks about right, I think it's going to come down to how good the tires bite out of the hole, on this one. Considering the plane is only going to be a bit over a pound AUW hopefully (even with a high pitch) the prop will have more than enough pull so it accelerates pretty fast, even if the prop is stalled, so it will go here the prop is headed.
If it goes half as fast as it looks you ought to be pleased with it.
As far as the fin, when your going for maximum performance you got to accept your on the razors edge. It looks about right, I think it's going to come down to how good the tires bite out of the hole, on this one. Considering the plane is only going to be a bit over a pound AUW hopefully (even with a high pitch) the prop will have more than enough pull so it accelerates pretty fast, even if the prop is stalled, so it will go here the prop is headed.
03-22-2014, 05:34 AM
#230
Gents....Thanks for your approvals and the vote of confidence.
Might as well be optimistic that it'll fly. I recall 1 model that has barely enough side area in back to allow flight and it tends to fish tail like a tad pole swimming. The model is a swept wing pusher that has enough forward side area to display the tracking problem. The problem improves once the plane gets enough speed.
Might as well be optimistic that it'll fly. I recall 1 model that has barely enough side area in back to allow flight and it tends to fish tail like a tad pole swimming. The model is a swept wing pusher that has enough forward side area to display the tracking problem. The problem improves once the plane gets enough speed.
03-22-2014, 06:34 AM
#232
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CBP you are an Artist and if you ever decide to go into the construction business I have a house I need you to build.
I would recommend Randy Johnson ( Big Unit ) or Nolan Ryan ( Ret. ) for your first launch!
A simple C/L Combat style launch should be just fine.
Great Job!!! It will fly as good as it looks but first flights are always up for grabs. This thing should accelerate up
to good speed in the first 100 feet as long as the prop starts to bite some good air. I would think as light as it is
if you launch over some tall weeds and dork it......it should come back to the flightline for a restart without any damage.
Don't put one of those little expensive $12 props on it for a test hop. Once this thing gets up on step it should howl!
Hope your eyeballs are still good!
I would recommend Randy Johnson ( Big Unit ) or Nolan Ryan ( Ret. ) for your first launch!
A simple C/L Combat style launch should be just fine.
Great Job!!! It will fly as good as it looks but first flights are always up for grabs. This thing should accelerate up
to good speed in the first 100 feet as long as the prop starts to bite some good air. I would think as light as it is
if you launch over some tall weeds and dork it......it should come back to the flightline for a restart without any damage.
Don't put one of those little expensive $12 props on it for a test hop. Once this thing gets up on step it should howl!
Hope your eyeballs are still good!
Last edited by Speedy-Gonzales; 03-22-2014 at 06:46 AM.
03-22-2014, 10:43 AM
#233
Good point about the first props to use. APC has the 6.5 x 5 still there for less than $4. It's great that they have such tremendous props in every size I've ever needed and their prices have been pretty much the same for many years.
For visibility, today is bright but solidly overcast. No wind. Just about ideal.
The grass isn't very high yet and the fields are still pretty muddy.
I've still got automotive body and paint going on here, so all of my test running has to be done far away from here. The ZALP actually feels perfect when you flip it. It's basically ready to run, but there was some debris inside that was not cleaned out at he factory.
04-01-2014, 02:57 PM
#234
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CBP, Is this a good engine?
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136763
or this one:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2064829
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2136763
or this one:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2064829
Last edited by Speedy-Gonzales; 04-01-2014 at 03:00 PM.
04-01-2014, 03:47 PM
#235
No. They don't compare at all to the Fora and Cyclons. If you are lucky and don't mind a bit of lapping and fitting, they may go ok, but not spectacular. I got my 2 .15's like the second picture for $50 each, a good price with a pipe.
04-01-2014, 05:47 PM
#236
I don't have any experience with them but I've heard mostly negative about them.
The positive is that if you have the capability to "blueprint" one of these engines and know all the little tricks and "feels"...this engine is supposed to be based on a competitive design.
In other words, one of these engines could give you a head start if you can handle custom P/L work and other sophisticated things that guys like Glen Dye can do.
I think this engine is like the Mosin Nagant rifle. Millions of them were made by people in different countries with different results. By design, this rifle is OK but many were poorly built.
The positive is that if you have the capability to "blueprint" one of these engines and know all the little tricks and "feels"...this engine is supposed to be based on a competitive design.
In other words, one of these engines could give you a head start if you can handle custom P/L work and other sophisticated things that guys like Glen Dye can do.
I think this engine is like the Mosin Nagant rifle. Millions of them were made by people in different countries with different results. By design, this rifle is OK but many were poorly built.
Last edited by combatpigg; 04-01-2014 at 05:52 PM.
04-02-2014, 04:22 AM
#238
I timed the flight of that plane with the little guy flying. He did pretty good in the pylon. I am not sure he flies any more, he looked to be about 8? I think it went about 100 mph or a bit more that day at the nats. I wonder where and what brand of con rods are to be used. I need one for an old X .15 ST, and I guess three for the Ucktams. Here is a guy that seems to carry the Ucktams. http://www.hobbyclub.com/index.php?cPath=44_101 I haven't personally dealt with him, but he seems to have cool motors. CP.. Have you worn out your new plane yet??? It looks ready to go.
Last edited by aspeed; 04-02-2014 at 06:03 AM.
04-02-2014, 01:39 PM
#239
No, the plane project is just a time filler while I work with a local paint shop on body parts.
I'm doing all the metal and prep work on a pair of fenders now so that I can submit them when the painter is available. There is a lot of reconstruction where the panels got rusted out.
I just don't have the facilities or the skill to shoot the "top coat" of this single stage metallic paint with predictable results and this painter is fair priced but hard to schedule. This car restoration project is going to be 2 years old in July and by then I want to be using that car to drive this little plane to the field.
I'm doing all the metal and prep work on a pair of fenders now so that I can submit them when the painter is available. There is a lot of reconstruction where the panels got rusted out.
I just don't have the facilities or the skill to shoot the "top coat" of this single stage metallic paint with predictable results and this painter is fair priced but hard to schedule. This car restoration project is going to be 2 years old in July and by then I want to be using that car to drive this little plane to the field.
04-02-2014, 03:15 PM
#240
Ya, cars and houses get in the way of life. I'm trying to sell my '32, and Vette, just got a PT Cruiser, have to do body work on the van, move, sell the old house, take care of the rental...
04-02-2014, 06:07 PM
#241
I would guess those cars command a higher price in Canada than they would down in California..?
Especially a Holy Grail type car.
We see a lot of Canadian car show people every summer at a local show. I spoke with one old guy who cruises from show to show in his coupe and every drag strip in between. He had scrap books packed full of places and events that he and his coupe journeyed to.
I really like this local show because some people trailer in works in progress. The most ambitious project I saw last year was a 1960 Ford Starliner station wagon that a guy was chopping and channeling. It was looking really cool if you could look past all the unfinished business yet to be done. A car like this would have no parts support for weatherstripping and all the little stuff, so the restorer would need to be a most resourceful dude. He will need to have curved glass custom made after lowering the roof 4 inches. I hope he shows up with it this year and every year after until it is done.
Especially a Holy Grail type car.
We see a lot of Canadian car show people every summer at a local show. I spoke with one old guy who cruises from show to show in his coupe and every drag strip in between. He had scrap books packed full of places and events that he and his coupe journeyed to.
I really like this local show because some people trailer in works in progress. The most ambitious project I saw last year was a 1960 Ford Starliner station wagon that a guy was chopping and channeling. It was looking really cool if you could look past all the unfinished business yet to be done. A car like this would have no parts support for weatherstripping and all the little stuff, so the restorer would need to be a most resourceful dude. He will need to have curved glass custom made after lowering the roof 4 inches. I hope he shows up with it this year and every year after until it is done.
04-03-2014, 04:54 AM
#242
I think the prices are about the same here as the US for the older stuff. The late model cars seem cheaper because of the dollar which was even for about ten years, but which the car companies seem to still allow 30% just in case. A 2013 Vette is likely 20,000 more here, but say a 1969 Camaro will be about the same, and likely be from the southern US anyway.
04-03-2014, 10:36 AM
#243
There is a company in the SF Bay Area that stamps out 1969 Camaros [last time I checked]. I think early Mustang bodies are also available.
I ran the ZALP this morning with a cut down 7x3 prop. Cut to 6 inches. The engine is running the full stack of head shims.
I ran it on 75% methanol, 25% castor.
It spit out some fine particles for the first 30 seconds and now the exhaust is clear. This prop puts out a ton of thrust for this little model, I think I'll maiden the plane with it.
The ZALP had a nice, stress free break in after three 2 oz. runs.
I'll need to work on the plumbing some more to make it more convenient to work with.
The video camera needs to be charged up [it probably needs a new battery]
I also need to re-install Wave-o-scope before doing any speed runs.
Oh yah, I never did verify the CG after final assembly of the model. It ended up weighing 21.5 ozs dry. It seems kind of heavy when you hold it and examine the size of the wing, but I think it is manageable.
After running this engine, the first thought that came to mind is this engine would be a great choice for the classic 1/2A model designs like the Mach None, Cheetah, GLH, 1/2A Shrike, 1/2A Dominator, etc.
I ran the ZALP this morning with a cut down 7x3 prop. Cut to 6 inches. The engine is running the full stack of head shims.
I ran it on 75% methanol, 25% castor.
It spit out some fine particles for the first 30 seconds and now the exhaust is clear. This prop puts out a ton of thrust for this little model, I think I'll maiden the plane with it.
The ZALP had a nice, stress free break in after three 2 oz. runs.
I'll need to work on the plumbing some more to make it more convenient to work with.
The video camera needs to be charged up [it probably needs a new battery]
I also need to re-install Wave-o-scope before doing any speed runs.
Oh yah, I never did verify the CG after final assembly of the model. It ended up weighing 21.5 ozs dry. It seems kind of heavy when you hold it and examine the size of the wing, but I think it is manageable.
Last edited by combatpigg; 04-03-2014 at 10:43 AM.
04-03-2014, 03:56 PM
#245
Yes, this is a nicely fit engine so far.
The cylinder has enough taper to allow the piston to glide all the way up until it gets squeezed by the cylinder. The crank fit inside the bearings and the fit to the case is tight enough, but the crank spins effortlessly. There is also practically zero end play. The threaded head clamp beats a screw camped head, the liner is indexed to the case so it can't be buzzed out of place. The backplate has an O ring seal. The crank itself looks to have every trick in the book done to it.
I'll have to remember to demagnitize it periodically.
If I was superstitious about things, I wouldn't have so many nice things to say about it already after running an under-sized prop on it. Thing is, Rich Lopez [the C/L Combat columnist for the past 100 years] likes this engine even if it might be a few RPM short of the current world beater. The problem with owning the current best combat engine is you pay a premium for that extra 1% of power, but there is nothing more maddening than following a guy through a bunch of manuevers, he can't shake you off, but you can see him slowly pulling away at 119 mph while you're doing 118 [or whatever speed the class runs at].
The cylinder has enough taper to allow the piston to glide all the way up until it gets squeezed by the cylinder. The crank fit inside the bearings and the fit to the case is tight enough, but the crank spins effortlessly. There is also practically zero end play. The threaded head clamp beats a screw camped head, the liner is indexed to the case so it can't be buzzed out of place. The backplate has an O ring seal. The crank itself looks to have every trick in the book done to it.
I'll have to remember to demagnitize it periodically.
If I was superstitious about things, I wouldn't have so many nice things to say about it already after running an under-sized prop on it. Thing is, Rich Lopez [the C/L Combat columnist for the past 100 years] likes this engine even if it might be a few RPM short of the current world beater. The problem with owning the current best combat engine is you pay a premium for that extra 1% of power, but there is nothing more maddening than following a guy through a bunch of manuevers, he can't shake you off, but you can see him slowly pulling away at 119 mph while you're doing 118 [or whatever speed the class runs at].
04-03-2014, 04:07 PM
#246
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Sometimes I like opening the mailbox. Here's the powerplant for my next conversion project and future contender for the online RCU .15 RC sport speed event. 159 grams.
You gotta look up at pretty good angle to see the top of the exhaust port. Came with a conventional prop hub assembly as well, good for the bench runs. A few short runs with no pipe, then on the pipe with a bench prop for break-in are prescribed.
Cool thing is the speed spinner is 30mm.. like all the small lekkie front ends.
No regular motor mounts for this one. Will have to machine the back end off a pan and graft that into a fuselage.
You gotta look up at pretty good angle to see the top of the exhaust port. Came with a conventional prop hub assembly as well, good for the bench runs. A few short runs with no pipe, then on the pipe with a bench prop for break-in are prescribed.
Cool thing is the speed spinner is 30mm.. like all the small lekkie front ends.
No regular motor mounts for this one. Will have to machine the back end off a pan and graft that into a fuselage.
04-03-2014, 04:23 PM
#248
That engine looks amazing..!
I like the pipe retainer wire, that's a clever looking arrangement.
I can see why you need a pan type mount. Otherwise a flat plate type mount would make the fuselage unecessarily wide. On the bright side, a speed pan front end means you only have to build 3/4 of a fuselage out of wood.
I like the pipe retainer wire, that's a clever looking arrangement.
I can see why you need a pan type mount. Otherwise a flat plate type mount would make the fuselage unecessarily wide. On the bright side, a speed pan front end means you only have to build 3/4 of a fuselage out of wood.
04-03-2014, 07:42 PM
#249
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And the front mounts are like having built-in channel-lock pliers to grip the front of the crankcase.
I like the quick-release head mount - keyhole openings for the screw heads, loosen them, turn it a few degrees and pop. I guess I need a satchel full of glow plugs too.
Time to order a couple of bench props and some counter-weighted 3x6 and 3x7 one blade props. On a tiny RC model I see no reason it can't pull the higher pitch or so I hope, and with IMC, you get several chances to find a bad needle setting in every flight.
I always wanted an F2A engine and one of those cute props. I've stood under F1C models being launched - once a while ago - and it was a riot. But never been near ukie speed models. I think I might have worn out some of the YouTube videos though.
This engine is hybrid - it is the 2014 TOP p/l on the lower internals of the Profi Junior. The TOP crank rides directly on balls in the crankcase outer race, whereas the Junior has a pressed in rear bearing. This has the beryliium-bronze stepped liner. So performance is expected to be between the Junior and the TOP. Ought to do me fine. I'd like to at least hear it hit 40k in the air.. the Junior is apparently good for up to 36-38k on F2A props whereas the TOP will get into the 42-43k range unloaded. So in a vertical dive I may get my wish, with or without the wings.
The mount will be either a Sunracer 4 or Ariane. Fully cowled and inverted again, these are shoulder wings. They're a hair bigger than the Boomerang , about 160 squares. But both are tough enough for the 200 club. I am not saying I'll make it, but the airframe would be up to it should I be so fortunate.
I like the quick-release head mount - keyhole openings for the screw heads, loosen them, turn it a few degrees and pop. I guess I need a satchel full of glow plugs too.
Time to order a couple of bench props and some counter-weighted 3x6 and 3x7 one blade props. On a tiny RC model I see no reason it can't pull the higher pitch or so I hope, and with IMC, you get several chances to find a bad needle setting in every flight.
I always wanted an F2A engine and one of those cute props. I've stood under F1C models being launched - once a while ago - and it was a riot. But never been near ukie speed models. I think I might have worn out some of the YouTube videos though.
This engine is hybrid - it is the 2014 TOP p/l on the lower internals of the Profi Junior. The TOP crank rides directly on balls in the crankcase outer race, whereas the Junior has a pressed in rear bearing. This has the beryliium-bronze stepped liner. So performance is expected to be between the Junior and the TOP. Ought to do me fine. I'd like to at least hear it hit 40k in the air.. the Junior is apparently good for up to 36-38k on F2A props whereas the TOP will get into the 42-43k range unloaded. So in a vertical dive I may get my wish, with or without the wings.
The mount will be either a Sunracer 4 or Ariane. Fully cowled and inverted again, these are shoulder wings. They're a hair bigger than the Boomerang , about 160 squares. But both are tough enough for the 200 club. I am not saying I'll make it, but the airframe would be up to it should I be so fortunate.
04-03-2014, 09:41 PM
#250
Wow...I've never heard of the crankshaft being used for the "inner race".... but FORD has done this idea for many years with their 8.8" rear axle design. The axles themselves are the "inner bearing race" with this design.
The down side is the axles eventually wear grooves once the assembly reaches 100,000+ miles, but it allows thicker axles to be used in a lighter housing than the "old school" 9 inch FORD design that is heavier and more expensive to make.
You could end up devoting the remaining 90% of your time in this hobby to this size engine alone. I've pretty well done that once I got the Fora .049 10 year ago and a couple other 1/2A sized HP engines since then. They are very satisfying, fun, take up minimal space and fairly economical compared to burning out several mediocre sport engines that have been "hopped up" in the same time frame.
The down side is the axles eventually wear grooves once the assembly reaches 100,000+ miles, but it allows thicker axles to be used in a lighter housing than the "old school" 9 inch FORD design that is heavier and more expensive to make.
You could end up devoting the remaining 90% of your time in this hobby to this size engine alone. I've pretty well done that once I got the Fora .049 10 year ago and a couple other 1/2A sized HP engines since then. They are very satisfying, fun, take up minimal space and fairly economical compared to burning out several mediocre sport engines that have been "hopped up" in the same time frame.